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johnbragg Online
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Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?
04-26-2015 09:27 AM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?

Surprising that an FCS conference is doing this especially one of the bottom D1 conferences.
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the stipend is up to the FCOA so a conference can set a lower amount .
Say two thousand a year for basketball and let an assistant coach go to make up the cost.
Just an example of how a lower revenue conference might be able to compete.

Northern Iowa AD stated they would have to offer a stipend that just about everyone would. Unlimited snacks they would not be able to offer more but not unlimited.
I think cost savings could be coming like D1 being 14 sports or less scholarships required for non revenue sports.

The real separation between P5 vs everyone else might be the training table.
Offering parents help attending bowl games maybe some in season games.
USC claimed that unlimited snacks would cost two million if I remember right.
Who knows what future bells and whistles the P5 will offer free rental cars are a possibility.
They are making their own rules now.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 10:22 AM by MJG.)
04-26-2015 10:19 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?

I think it's likely that the entire package of benefits that the P5 will offer will be unmatchable for those outside the P5. The G5 will come as close to matching it as possible. I suspect they will offer a training table, some family travel benefits, extended lifetime scholarship, some extra recruiting staffing, amybe even some limited extended insurance coverage with caps (but nothing like the insurance coverage the P5 will be offering). FCS has no chance of keeping up---just too many mens football scholarships and too little income. A few well heeled basketball conferences can keep up. A number of basketball conference's can offer FCOA for just basketball---but no other benefits for basketball athletes and no FCOA for any athletes outside of basketball.

I have said it before. The purpose of autonomy is to allow the P5 to better leverage their massive financial advantage into a real on-field advantage. The old rules pretty much limited the use of that financial advantage to building better facilities. The existing rules prevented the massive financial seperation from creating an on field seperation of similar size. The new rules will allow the P5 to shower thier athletes with more direct benefits. Now you will see the on field separation begin to widen as more top athletes choose the larger benefit package even if it means it might be tougher to get playing time.

A split within D1 is simply inevitable at his point. It's no longer a question of "if" it will happen. It is simply a question of when it will occur and what will be the final trigger. I could see the CFP agreement talks that will occur just prior to the CFP renwal (CFP expires in 11 years) being a possible trigger. If correct, that means the rest of D1 has about a decade to figure out how to keep up or what to do if they cant.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 12:49 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-26-2015 11:15 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

There is a lot of spending pressure in some of the "Olympic sports" that might squeeze out some non-P5 schools that do well there now, and FCOA is only part of it. Baseball and hockey are two sports that come to mind where P5 schools that are ambitious in those sports can easily start a spending race in which currently successful but less-wealthy programs will fall behind. Think about the millions that Oregon spent to start baseball from scratch, or the obscene hundred-million-plus amount that Penn State spent to start hockey. How long will Coastal Carolina baseball or St. Cloud State hockey be able to keep up if a few dozen P5 schools are overspending on those sports?

Smaller private schools with good support for their signature programs should have no trouble raising enough money -- e.g., Denver hockey or Johns Hopkins lacrosse. But there are a lot of programs that might not be so fortunate.
04-26-2015 12:26 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 11:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?

I think it's likely that the entire package of benefits that the P5 will offer will be unmatchable for those outside the P5. The G5 will come as close to matching it as possible. I suspect they will offer a training table, some family travel benefits, extended lifetime scholarship, some extra recruiting staffing, amybe even some limited extended insurance coverage with caps (but nothing like the insurance coverage the P5 will be offering). FCS has no chance of keeping up---just too many mens football scholarships and too little income. A few well heeled basketball conferences can keep up. A number of basketball conference's can offer FCOA for just basketball---but no other benefits for basketball athletes and no FCOA for any athletes outside of basketball.

I have said it before. The purpose of autonomy is to allow the P5 to better leverage their massive financial advantage into a real on-field advantage. The old rules pretty much limited the use of that financial advantage to building better facilities. The existing rules prevented the massive financial seperation from creating an on field seperation of similar size. The new rules will allow the P5 to shower thier athletes with more direct benefits. Now you will see the on field separation begin to widen as more top athletes choose the larger benefit package even if it means it might be tougher to get playing time.

A split within D1 is simply inevitable at his point. It's no longer a question of "if" it will happen. It is simply a question of when it will occur and what will be the final trigger. I could see the CFP agreement talks that will occur just prior to the CFP renwal (CFP expires in 11 years) being a possible trigger. If correct, that means the rest of D1 has about a decade to figure out how to keep up or what to do if they cant.
Only an idiot would say that a split is inevitable now, when they got what they wanted by threatening to split. Not that it could not happen, but it is a lot less likely to happen now that they got what the wanted than it was before.
04-26-2015 01:06 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
I believeI that the all mid majors and low majors will all elect to pay full cost of attendance for basketball. The price tag for 26 scholarships (men and women) isn't that much of a burden.

You already see the split with nonrevenue sports. P5 schools are paying full cost of attendance across all sports, including those sports with partial scholarships.

Some schools like ECU are doing this too. However, some mid majors like UConn are not doing it for all sports. That's where the separation will really be pronounced. The financial burden just becomes too great.
04-26-2015 01:11 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
The Big South is paying FCOA but I don't think the CAA is? Interesting development if true.
04-26-2015 01:13 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 01:06 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 11:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?

I think it's likely that the entire package of benefits that the P5 will offer will be unmatchable for those outside the P5. The G5 will come as close to matching it as possible. I suspect they will offer a training table, some family travel benefits, extended lifetime scholarship, some extra recruiting staffing, amybe even some limited extended insurance coverage with caps (but nothing like the insurance coverage the P5 will be offering). FCS has no chance of keeping up---just too many mens football scholarships and too little income. A few well heeled basketball conferences can keep up. A number of basketball conference's can offer FCOA for just basketball---but no other benefits for basketball athletes and no FCOA for any athletes outside of basketball.

I have said it before. The purpose of autonomy is to allow the P5 to better leverage their massive financial advantage into a real on-field advantage. The old rules pretty much limited the use of that financial advantage to building better facilities. The existing rules prevented the massive financial seperation from creating an on field seperation of similar size. The new rules will allow the P5 to shower thier athletes with more direct benefits. Now you will see the on field separation begin to widen as more top athletes choose the larger benefit package even if it means it might be tougher to get playing time.

A split within D1 is simply inevitable at his point. It's no longer a question of "if" it will happen. It is simply a question of when it will occur and what will be the final trigger. I could see the CFP agreement talks that will occur just prior to the CFP renwal (CFP expires in 11 years) being a possible trigger. If correct, that means the rest of D1 has about a decade to figure out how to keep up or what to do if they cant.
Only an idiot would say that a split is inevitable now, when they got what they wanted by threatening to split. Not that it could not happen, but it is a lot less likely to happen now that they got what the wanted than it was before.

I'd say its virtually impossible to not see some sort of separation on the horizon. In fact, with the granting of autonomous powers one could say the separation or "split" has already occurred at the governance level.

Its going to happen. It may not be a cataclysmic split you envision--instead, it may take on a different form that is less brutal. Yes, it could be a complete split of the P5 from the NCAA. On the other hand, it may be a new upper P5 division within the NCAA. It could be a refining of the rules that define who is D1 and who isn't D1. It may even be the voluntary mass future migration to FCS or D2 by uncompetitive D1 programs facing escalating costs and falling revenues along with long odds against on field success. Bottom line, the massive D1 herd will be culled one way or another and the final result will look like a "split". The massive differences in financial resources is simply not like any other division in the NCAA. It is a division increasingly made up of haves and have-nots rather than peers. Its just a matter of time before it regoups into "peer" based divisions like the rest of the NCAA.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 01:44 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-26-2015 01:36 PM
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Post: #9
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 12:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

There is a lot of spending pressure in some of the "Olympic sports" that might squeeze out some non-P5 schools that do well there now, and FCOA is only part of it. Baseball and hockey are two sports that come to mind where P5 schools that are ambitious in those sports can easily start a spending race in which currently successful but less-wealthy programs will fall behind. Think about the millions that Oregon spent to start baseball from scratch, or the obscene hundred-million-plus amount that Penn State spent to start hockey. How long will Coastal Carolina baseball or St. Cloud State hockey be able to keep up if a few dozen P5 schools are overspending on those sports?

Smaller private schools with good support for their signature programs should have no trouble raising enough money -- e.g., Denver hockey or Johns Hopkins lacrosse. But there are a lot of programs that might not be so fortunate.
UND will give FCOA in men's hockey and probably women's bb and volleyball for Title IX. All the NCHC will probably offer FCOA too. Montana won't be offering FCOA in anything, and most of the Big Sky won't either. At low level leagues, offering FCOA for basketball will be the norm, especially if they don't have FCS football, which is a big money pit.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 01:58 PM by NoDak.)
04-26-2015 01:56 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 12:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

There is a lot of spending pressure in some of the "Olympic sports" that might squeeze out some non-P5 schools that do well there now, and FCOA is only part of it. Baseball and hockey are two sports that come to mind where P5 schools that are ambitious in those sports can easily start a spending race in which currently successful but less-wealthy programs will fall behind. Think about the millions that Oregon spent to start baseball from scratch, or the obscene hundred-million-plus amount that Penn State spent to start hockey. How long will Coastal Carolina baseball or St. Cloud State hockey be able to keep up if a few dozen P5 schools are overspending on those sports?

Not to mention the impact of the SEC and PAC networks. Hmm, should I take that offer from Coastal Carolina and maybe play on ESPNU twice a year and CBS-SN a couple of times, or go to South Carolina and have Mom watch *every single game* on the SEC Network? (I even think the SEC Network is going to draw prospects away from the minor leagues--unless you have a shot at the majors in 1-2 years, who wouldn't rather spend 3-4 years in Athens GA or Knoxville TN vs Pee Dee SC or Port St Lucie FL?

Quote:Smaller private schools with good support for their signature programs should have no trouble raising enough money -- e.g., Denver hockey or Johns Hopkins lacrosse. But there are a lot of programs that might not be so fortunate.

Agreed.

(04-26-2015 01:13 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  The Big South is paying FCOA but I don't think the CAA is? Interesting development if true.

Has the CAA said they aren't? Because, given that the Horizon, Big South and a couple of Southland schools have all said that they'd ante up, my guess is that almost everyone will.
04-26-2015 03:34 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
I would have to think the CAA will do it for hoops, seems like there isn't much interest in football from what I've seen.
04-26-2015 03:57 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 03:34 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 12:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

There is a lot of spending pressure in some of the "Olympic sports" that might squeeze out some non-P5 schools that do well there now, and FCOA is only part of it. Baseball and hockey are two sports that come to mind where P5 schools that are ambitious in those sports can easily start a spending race in which currently successful but less-wealthy programs will fall behind. Think about the millions that Oregon spent to start baseball from scratch, or the obscene hundred-million-plus amount that Penn State spent to start hockey. How long will Coastal Carolina baseball or St. Cloud State hockey be able to keep up if a few dozen P5 schools are overspending on those sports?

Not to mention the impact of the SEC and PAC networks. Hmm, should I take that offer from Coastal Carolina and maybe play on ESPNU twice a year and CBS-SN a couple of times, or go to South Carolina and have Mom watch *every single game* on the SEC Network? (I even think the SEC Network is going to draw prospects away from the minor leagues--unless you have a shot at the majors in 1-2 years, who wouldn't rather spend 3-4 years in Athens GA or Knoxville TN vs Pee Dee SC or Port St Lucie FL?

That's a good point. And it's not just Mom who can watch all of those Pac-12 or SEC baseball games -- scouts can get video of every one of the player's games, if they want it. In contrast, there might be only a few games worth of video on the star player at Coastal, plus a few more if they make a run in the NCAA tournament. For a starting pitcher, it's the difference between having video of two of his starts versus having video of every start.

That might be a factor in every college sport where athletes have a chance to move on to pro or Olympic competition. I doubt that Olympic teams or lower-profile pro sports teams have the funding to send scouts all over the country to follow draft prospects through their college careers, so having ten times the video on one player instead of another could be important.
04-26-2015 04:16 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.
04-26-2015 05:26 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 01:56 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 12:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

There is a lot of spending pressure in some of the "Olympic sports" that might squeeze out some non-P5 schools that do well there now, and FCOA is only part of it. Baseball and hockey are two sports that come to mind where P5 schools that are ambitious in those sports can easily start a spending race in which currently successful but less-wealthy programs will fall behind. Think about the millions that Oregon spent to start baseball from scratch, or the obscene hundred-million-plus amount that Penn State spent to start hockey. How long will Coastal Carolina baseball or St. Cloud State hockey be able to keep up if a few dozen P5 schools are overspending on those sports?

Smaller private schools with good support for their signature programs should have no trouble raising enough money -- e.g., Denver hockey or Johns Hopkins lacrosse. But there are a lot of programs that might not be so fortunate.
UND will give FCOA in men's hockey and probably women's bb and volleyball for Title IX. All the NCHC will probably offer FCOA too. Montana won't be offering FCOA in anything, and most of the Big Sky won't either. At low level leagues, offering FCOA for basketball will be the norm, especially if they don't have FCS football, which is a big money pit.


I do think we might see a split from hybrid conferences where basketball and other Olympic sports schools go into a non-football conferences and football schools will go someplace else. How will the MVFC schools decide to break away? Would the rest of the Summit League and MVC schools with no football join together and so forth? How bout' the OVC schools with no football? I could see Eastern Washington could survive going FBS to join MWC. They could keep up there. North Dakota State can actually join the FBS race when three of their men's sports are in the spotlight the past few years. Would there be pressure for the likes of AAC, Sun Belt, MAC, C-USA and MWC to add more schools from the FCS since the top FCS schools could have a disadvantage edge over the rest, and would have no challenges in competition?
04-26-2015 07:23 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 05:26 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.


I do see some D2 schools move up to add competition, but I do not see anybody downgrade to D2. Sometime in the future? Under a new watch under Montana? I could see that FBS is the better option since they do love to get the big pay checks from FBS schools. Going D2 would actually lose that extra dollars that Montana and others can not have anymore. FBS schools can not play D2 schools at all.
04-26-2015 07:28 PM
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RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 07:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 05:26 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.


I do see some D2 schools move up to add competition, but I do not see anybody downgrade to D2. Sometime in the future? Under a new watch under Montana? I could see that FBS is the better option since they do love to get the big pay checks from FBS schools. Going D2 would actually lose that extra dollars that Montana and others can not have anymore. FBS schools can not play D2 schools at all.

You have to think Liberty offering FCOA forced the Big South on this one.
04-26-2015 07:49 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 07:49 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 07:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 05:26 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.


I do see some D2 schools move up to add competition, but I do not see anybody downgrade to D2. Sometime in the future? Under a new watch under Montana? I could see that FBS is the better option since they do love to get the big pay checks from FBS schools. Going D2 would actually lose that extra dollars that Montana and others can not have anymore. FBS schools can not play D2 schools at all.

You have to think Liberty offering FCOA forced the Big South on this one.


Then when Eastern Washington starts offering it as well? You could see Montana and some others do it as well. With Idaho being FBS? If they start doing a FCOA? It might upset Big Sky as well.
04-26-2015 07:52 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 07:49 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 07:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 05:26 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.


I do see some D2 schools move up to add competition, but I do not see anybody downgrade to D2. Sometime in the future? Under a new watch under Montana? I could see that FBS is the better option since they do love to get the big pay checks from FBS schools. Going D2 would actually lose that extra dollars that Montana and others can not have anymore. FBS schools can not play D2 schools at all.

You have to think Liberty offering FCOA forced the Big South on this one.

But isn't Liberty offering FCOA to everybody? The Big South isn't keeping up with Liberty here.

As for the Big Sky, hmm. They're competing for athletes with the Big West, WCC, maybe the Summit and the Southland for some schools. *Maybe* they can afford to not pay full cost-of-attendance in basketball, but I doubt that the Big Sky is going to voluntarily accept being a 15/16 seed every year. Because that's what's going to happen to the no-FCOA-for-basketball conferences--they'll be annual fixtures in Dayton and the First Four.

If there's enough resistance from the smallest-budget Big Sky schools, it might be an option where some Big Sky schools pay and some don't.
04-26-2015 08:07 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 01:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 01:06 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 11:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 09:27 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  ARticle about UNC Asheville AD isn't sure how they'll come up with the money, but they'll figure it out

Another data point against the theory that FCOA will further separate P5 from everyone, or FBS from everyone. If Big South and the Horizon League and some Southland schools are paying FCOA in basketball, then pretty much everyone is going to. You might have a few outlier conferences at the very bottom of the food chain who can't afford it, but I think you'll see at least 25 of the 32 or so Division I conferences paying FOCA for basketball.

There will be a division in non-revenue sports--ECU and Liberty have said they're paying FOCA for everybody, the P-5 are pretty much going to have to pay FCOA for everybody.

Lower-FBS and the higher-revenue non-FBS programs will have to make decisions--do you pay FCOA to keep (sport X) competitive with P5 programs, at the expense of other sports, or do you focus on investing in basketball and keeping more sports open?

Do top FCS programs pay FCOA for football to stay on top of FCS? Does that drive some FCS realignment, at least in the east where there are non-Big Sky options?

I think it's likely that the entire package of benefits that the P5 will offer will be unmatchable for those outside the P5. The G5 will come as close to matching it as possible. I suspect they will offer a training table, some family travel benefits, extended lifetime scholarship, some extra recruiting staffing, amybe even some limited extended insurance coverage with caps (but nothing like the insurance coverage the P5 will be offering). FCS has no chance of keeping up---just too many mens football scholarships and too little income. A few well heeled basketball conferences can keep up. A number of basketball conference's can offer FCOA for just basketball---but no other benefits for basketball athletes and no FCOA for any athletes outside of basketball.

I have said it before. The purpose of autonomy is to allow the P5 to better leverage their massive financial advantage into a real on-field advantage. The old rules pretty much limited the use of that financial advantage to building better facilities. The existing rules prevented the massive financial seperation from creating an on field seperation of similar size. The new rules will allow the P5 to shower thier athletes with more direct benefits. Now you will see the on field separation begin to widen as more top athletes choose the larger benefit package even if it means it might be tougher to get playing time.

A split within D1 is simply inevitable at his point. It's no longer a question of "if" it will happen. It is simply a question of when it will occur and what will be the final trigger. I could see the CFP agreement talks that will occur just prior to the CFP renwal (CFP expires in 11 years) being a possible trigger. If correct, that means the rest of D1 has about a decade to figure out how to keep up or what to do if they cant.
Only an idiot would say that a split is inevitable now, when they got what they wanted by threatening to split. Not that it could not happen, but it is a lot less likely to happen now that they got what the wanted than it was before.

I'd say its virtually impossible to not see some sort of separation on the horizon. In fact, with the granting of autonomous powers one could say the separation or "split" has already occurred at the governance level.

Its going to happen. It may not be a cataclysmic split you envision--instead, it may take on a different form that is less brutal. Yes, it could be a complete split of the P5 from the NCAA. On the other hand, it may be a new upper P5 division within the NCAA. It could be a refining of the rules that define who is D1 and who isn't D1. It may even be the voluntary mass future migration to FCS or D2 by uncompetitive D1 programs facing escalating costs and falling revenues along with long odds against on field success. Bottom line, the massive D1 herd will be culled one way or another and the final result will look like a "split". The massive differences in financial resources is simply not like any other division in the NCAA. It is a division increasingly made up of haves and have-nots rather than peers. Its just a matter of time before it regoups into "peer" based divisions like the rest of the NCAA.
I understood there has already been separation 'at the governance level' (the FCS lost their seat at the table, and the FBS took control of issues related to FBS football), and the P5 was given autonomy over a few issues everyone agreed they should have autonomy over, and they can not arbitrarily add to it.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 09:11 PM by Seminole Indian.)
04-26-2015 09:07 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Big South is paying FCOA for mens, womens basketball
(04-26-2015 08:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 07:49 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 07:28 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 05:26 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  I think a split will occur, but it will be driven by the schools and conferences not offering FCOA. A number of Big Sky schools have come out very aggressively against offering FCOA for any sport. Schools like Montana prefer to be the big fish in the small pond, and I see them getting together with some of the FCS conferences and the top of the current Division 2 to form a new Division 2.

It's not that these schools will not be allowed to stay in Division 1 without FCOA. It is that some of them won't accept being less competitive.


I do see some D2 schools move up to add competition, but I do not see anybody downgrade to D2. Sometime in the future? Under a new watch under Montana? I could see that FBS is the better option since they do love to get the big pay checks from FBS schools. Going D2 would actually lose that extra dollars that Montana and others can not have anymore. FBS schools can not play D2 schools at all.

You have to think Liberty offering FCOA forced the Big South on this one.

But isn't Liberty offering FCOA to everybody? The Big South isn't keeping up with Liberty here.

As for the Big Sky, hmm. They're competing for athletes with the Big West, WCC, maybe the Summit and the Southland for some schools. *Maybe* they can afford to not pay full cost-of-attendance in basketball, but I doubt that the Big Sky is going to voluntarily accept being a 15/16 seed every year. Because that's what's going to happen to the no-FCOA-for-basketball conferences--they'll be annual fixtures in Dayton and the First Four.

If there's enough resistance from the smallest-budget Big Sky schools, it might be an option where some Big Sky schools pay and some don't.

The Big South has more non-football schools than football. Thus why I said Liberty may have forced it. Big South has only 6 football playing schools and 11 basketball. 04-cheers
04-26-2015 09:26 PM
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