https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-ot...00229.html

Quote:One of the inherent rights of owning a vehicle is the ability to get on one’s backside — a wrench in one hand and a grease rag in the other, and just tinker to your little heart’s desire. Since the vehicle was invented, it’s been an important facet within the community of gearheads.

General Motors — the same company responsible for 87 deaths related to faulty ignition switches, FYI — wants to take that right away from you citing safety and security issues. Along with a few other big names.

....

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Deere argued that “letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system.”

That’s right— pirating music. Through a tractor.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-ot...00229.html

I'm not surprised to see Chrysler and GM on the list supporting this. But the full list is full of shame. WTF Toyota? WTF Mitsubishi? WTF Porsche? WTF Ford?

I am particularly ashamed of BMW -- as the X series plant and ICAR and iDrive are developed in Upstate, SC -- as well as Mazda.

I really hate government industrial complex. I am sure Chuck Schumer will be introducing a law tomorrow.

They want you in their dealerships as often as possible so they can upsell you on new vehicles and "recommend" $thousands in unnecessary service is what it boils down to.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Deere argued that “letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system.”

(04-24-2015 05:35 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  The article states automakers don't want "owners looking to alter any sort of technology in the vehicle that relates to the onboard computer."

That said, I still disagree with the automakers. If you want to flash your ECU, you should have the right to. But let's not pretend this is going to deny people from changing their own oil or doing other maintenance (manufacturers could have easily designed things by now to make DIY impossible without special tooling).

Yeah, the article was very misleading.

To be honest, most shouldn't touch the computer. Hell, I would imagine most wouldn't know how to do it or even care.

Government will keep expanding its control until there's a revolution. In about 200 years, that will happen.

(04-24-2015 05:35 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  The article states automakers don't want "owners looking to alter any sort of technology in the vehicle that relates to the onboard computer."

That said, I still disagree with the automakers. If you want to flash your ECU, you should have the right to. But let's not pretend this is going to deny people from changing their own oil or doing other maintenance (manufacturers could have easily designed things by now to make DIY impossible without special tooling).

They pretty much have. Maybe not to the level of oil changes with special tooling but most designs have the basic stuff buried. My wife's oil filter is so hard to get to, it isn't worth changing the oil. The headlight is so difficult to get off it takes me half an afternoon just to change a bulb. I have to take off several parts just to get to the battery. Same with the air filter. The intake is in there so tight and it sits so low and is vertical, I have to take it apart all the way to the throttle body to change it. My Volvo, forget about it. Other than the battery, there is very little I can do. Glad it has been reliable.

My wife has an '04 Buick Rendezvous. Not DIY friendly at all, but I have made it a hobby for the sake of learning. I have a '04 Volvo C70 HPT convertible that I really don't mess with much. Luckily the couple of parts I have needed to replace have been pretty simple to self-diagnose with some research, but I had to hire a mechanic to install them.

Eventually, automakers will just make it so damn complicated to change ones own oil that folks will just have to take it to a mechanic.

I will say my previous car was a Mazda and I did everything with ease. Granted it was '95. I keep my cars forever.

(04-24-2015 08:24 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I will say my previous car was a Mazda and I did everything with ease. Granted it was '95. I keep my cars forever.

Yeah, I've noticed older cars are much easier to take care of personally than new cars. That's by design.

Heck, my vehicle has a damn cover over the oil pan area that is a pain in the ass to remove. I've done it myself before, but quickly realized that by the time I purchased all the materials, jacked the vehicle up, changed the oil/oil filter, disposed of the used oil, etc. it cost about the same as taking the vehicle to the mechanic to change the oil.

(04-24-2015 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 08:24 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I will say my previous car was a Mazda and I did everything with ease. Granted it was '95. I keep my cars forever.

Yeah, I've noticed older cars are much easier to take care of personally than new cars. That's by design.

Heck, my vehicle has a damn cover over the oil pan area that is a pain in the ass to remove. I've done it myself before, but quickly realized that by the time I purchased all the materials, jacked the vehicle up, changed the oil/oil filter, disposed of the used oil, etc. it cost about the same as taking the vehicle to the mechanic to change the oil.

Yeah, getting your oil changed by a mechanic really isn't a bad deal as long as you don't let them upsell you on other things.

I could see the practicality for environmental reasons. A lot of people don't dispose of oil properly.

(04-24-2015 09:14 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I could see the practicality for environmental reasons. A lot of people don't dispose of oil properly.

Yeah, that was alwasy a pain in having to drive somewhere afterwards and disposing of the oil. These days, i just take the vehicle to a mechanic I trust and be done with it.

I usually dig a hole and dump it in the woods.

(04-24-2015 10:13 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I usually dig a hole and dump it in the woods.

Well technically you are returning it to it's natural state.

So, the automakers don't want you messing with your PCM...

I don't see a problem with that in general.

(04-24-2015 10:27 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  So, the automakers don't want you messing with your PCM...

I don't see a problem with that in general.

Once you buy the vehicle, the ECM is yours, not theirs. I see a big problem with it. Let me rephrase... I don't see a problem with them not wanting you to mess with it. I see a problem with them using the government-industrial complex to put a stop to it using the force of law.

(04-24-2015 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 10:27 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  So, the automakers don't want you messing with your PCM...

I don't see a problem with that in general.

Once you buy the vehicle, the ECM is yours, not theirs. I see a big problem with it. Let me rephrase... I don't see a problem with them not wanting you to mess with it. I see a problem with them using the government-industrial complex to put a stop to it using the force of law.

I think he's got it right here.

I agree in principle but I don't view it as that simple.

There are other concerns, from environmental ones to safety.