http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...e/25159712

(04-23-2015 07:19 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...e/25159712

I mean, let's face it......college basketball kinda blows. Even our beloved Bearcat games are borderline unwatchable at times.

I'm so over thinking we play good defense. It's just the fact that we muck up the game as much as possible.

Good-to-great coaches in this game differentiate themselves by being innovative offensively. It's relatively 'easy' to play this dreadfully stale style of play that mucks up the game. There's a clear and defined blueprint at this point.

The masses are voting w/their feet and/ or wallets. The powers that be need to do something. The sport is dying a slow death, March Madness be damned.




mc

The idea that the game is poorly played is absurd. Really good breakdown here on how consistent shooting has been and points per possession. I'd argue that defenses are better coaches and more skilled now than ever and yet points per possession is still consistent with the past (which suggest players are more skilled now).

http://basketballpredictions.blogspot.co...right.html

Borderline unwatchable, absolutely unwatchable is a better description. What is not mentioned is horrific inconsistent officiating that does not call fouls particularly inside the paint.

If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

(04-23-2015 08:09 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the game is poorly played is absurd. Really good breakdown here on how consistent shooting has been and points per possession. I'd argue that defenses are better coaches and more skilled now than ever and yet points per possession is still consistent with the past (which suggest players are more skilled now).

http://basketballpredictions.blogspot.co...right.html

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

I remember when College Basketball was great from when I started watching in the mid to late 80s as a kid until the late 90s. Player fundamentals were much superior, coaches let their players play, there was much less contact allowed on the perimeter and there was a flow to the games. Scoring has sharply declined since 2000 where as scoring in college football has increased.
My favorite Final 4 other than 1992 was the 1990 Final 4 that had Duke, high flying Georgia Tech, 40 minutes of Hell Arkansas, and the Running Rebels of UNLV. Those games were high scoring and fun to watch. UNLV also had the Amoeba defense which devastated Duke in the Final. Another problem today is so many teams play Half Court D playing it safe instead of trying to get turnovers and easy fast break points.

I actually enjoy low scoring games. The effort I see from teams is often much more fun than watching supremely talented players try to do everything by themselves. Combine the two and you get some awesome teams to watch such as Kentucky, Wisconsin, etc.

Yeah I don't have a problem with the game in its current form.

Boring....

I remember when Tubby Smith got ran out of UK, in a large part due to his boring, low scoring style of offense. I saw him when Minnesota played o$u, and it was the exact same style, and the exact same boring.

Mick's style, and UC's performance, is pretty much the same.

The powers that be need to make some rule changes to move the balance of the game back towards the offense.

The NFL knows the deal, make rules to increase scoring. That is what most fans want.

(04-24-2015 07:27 AM)namrag Wrote:  Boring....

I remember when Tubby Smith got ran out of UK, in a large part due to his boring, low scoring style of offense. I saw him when Minnesota played o$u, and it was the exact same style, and the exact same boring.

Mick's style, and UC's performance, is pretty much the same.

I would imagine this can't help in recruiting for Mick. Kids don't want to go to a team that focuses the vast majority of their time on defense. Kids wants to get up and down the floor, play fast, and score more.

I like lower scoring defensive grind it out basketball games.

Then again I also like the 1-0 baseball pitching duel....

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

(04-24-2015 09:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

Go watch people in those eras dribble. nobody has a left hand. Watch the defense ...it's not nearly as tough. The players aren't as athletic and the attention to detail on defense isn't the same. Teams don't switch and communicate like they do now. Despite that teams turn the ball over less now and shooting has remained fairly consistent. Hell free throw shooting is better now than it was back then. Most objective data shows that fundamentals are better now then they were in the past. Everyone has nostalgia for the past, but by most objective analysis players and teams are simply better now.

(04-24-2015 09:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

I would say there are less developed, elite end players in college basketball now, but that college basketball players as a whole a significantly more skilled and better than they were in the past.

(04-24-2015 10:42 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

I would say there are less developed, elite end players in college basketball now, but that college basketball players as a whole a significantly more skilled and better than they were in the past.

Nailed it...

(04-23-2015 08:09 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  The idea that the game is poorly played is absurd. Really good breakdown here on how consistent shooting has been and points per possession. I'd argue that defenses are better coaches and more skilled now than ever and yet points per possession is still consistent with the past (which suggest players are more skilled now).

http://basketballpredictions.blogspot.co...right.html

Mark, you are very knowledgeable when it comes to basketball and all of the analytics involved, but my eyes tell a different story. Just using my beloved Cats as an example, the majority of thier games made my eyes bleed. Winning games 50 - 48 is not good basketball, and it is happening across the sport. When you read game previews that say " should be a rock fight" or " expect a real rugby scrum" you have a problem. If I wanted to watch rock fights and rugby I would not be tuned in to basketball. The sport is being called out by coaches, owners and fans across the country. offensive execution needs to improve big time, weather that is through some new rule changes, or coaching or something else.

(04-24-2015 10:42 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

I would say there are less developed, elite end players in college basketball now, but that college basketball players as a whole a significantly more skilled and better than they were in the past.

I largely agree with you. I think it's likely, though, that the best teams of the 80s to the mid-90s would fairly dominate the best teams of the preps to pros and one and done eras.

(04-24-2015 10:41 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:00 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:40 PM)jarr Wrote:  If anybody wants to argue that the game isn't unwatchable anymore, go ahead and YouTube some old videos of UCLA in the 70's, Lakers/Celtics in the 80's, UNLV and Loyola Marymount from the late 80s and early 90s, etc. or even just some other more ordinary teams of those times. It will blow you away how skilled some of those guys used to be.

There are like 50 guys in the NBA who are college aged. Players from those older teams you mention would be 1 and done today, so it's not really a fair comparison. Anthony Davis was the best center in the NBA in what would have been his senior year of college. The college game is comparatively worse than before because the best players leave much earlier than they used to.

And what do the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s have to do with the college game?

Go watch people in those eras dribble. nobody has a left hand. Watch the defense ...it's not nearly as tough. The players aren't as athletic and the attention to detail on defense isn't the same. Teams don't switch and communicate like they do now. Despite that teams turn the ball over less now and shooting has remained fairly consistent. Hell free throw shooting is better now than it was back then. Most objective data shows that fundamentals are better now then they were in the past. Everyone has nostalgia for the past, but by most objective analysis players and teams are simply better now.

Agree that the defense is much more intense now but you have to remember (and you're probably too young to) that you couldn't carry the ball when dribbling back in the day...you had to keep your hand on top of the ball. If they enforced that today there would be a travel call on every touch.

To fix the game all they have to do is actually call fouls. It would be an incredible foul out / free throw fest at first, but once teams realized the officials were serious they would have to adjust.

And that goes for big men banging their bodies into stationary defenders also. Call it both ways. If anyone initiates contact, ring them up.