You can't think of the top 3-4 prospects in the draft and who else the Bucs should take?

A ticking timebomb, meaning what? Based on what?

(04-17-2015 12:45 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  You can't think of the top 3-4 prospects in the draft and who else the Bucs should take?

A ticking timebomb, meaning what? Based on what?

Marge I don't really care about the NFL...so I can't give a detailed analysis...I just would rule out Winston because he will F up again.

Ticking Timebomb---> hmm alleged rapes/sexual assaults, free crab legs, stealing, autographs, dining room incident, etc....

I wouldn't want this guy the face of my organization.

Marge you'll get your wish and he'll probably go in the Top 2...but I wouldn't draft him.

Plural rapes? And anyone who actually has looked into that case KNOWS the forensic evidence and Erica Kinsman's own friends' testimony refutes her multiple versions of that night. The bruising doesn't match up. The two sets of DNA doesn't match up. The low BAC doesn't match up. The negative drug tox screening doesn't match up. Her friends saying "she wasn't that drunk" doesn't match up. Her friend saying "she asked me if she should leave with them, I said 'If you want', and then she left" doesn't match up. Her telling her friend she was hit in the head doesn't match up. These are inarguable facts. A retired Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court said "there is no evidence to support that she was forcefully taken into the cab, or that she was unable to call for help from other people outside of a busy bar". The State Attorney said he'd "have a hard time getting a jury to find her credible with the 'gaps' in her story".

I'm just sayin'.

Autographs? Ok, what's your point? Nobody ever claimed they paid Winston for his autograph. It was a non-story that ESPN made into a story, because that's what ESPN can do, if it wants.

Damn, $32 of crab. What an awful human being. (Also, you listed this incident twice.) Bartenders give friends free drinks at a bar. Those who work in restaurants get friends free food. This stuff is common, even rampant. This country is full of timebombs. Oh no!

What, he was seen saying bad words? The horror.

I mean, give me a break.

Would you also avoid signing Peyton Manning? While a student at Tennessee, a female went to the sexual assault crisis center on campus after an incident with Manning and received several settlements from the university and Manning over the years.

Roethlisberger has sexual assault claims (though the Statesboro one, based on what was "reported", did seem bad) and had that headline-making motorcycle accident. Kaepernick's had the sexual assault tag as well. Favre sent a weiner pic. All of these guys have played in the Super Bowl. Most have won it. In other sports, Kobe Bryant is another example. Would you not sign him?

Timebombs. All of them.

--------------

Nobody asked you for a detailed analysis. But when someone makes a comment, I expect some actual reasoning behind it, and preferably an alternate scenario in a situation like this.

My "wish" is that the Bucs draft the best player available at the most important position, since they don't appear to have a long-term solution there. Winston is clearly the best QB prospect and arguably the best overall prospect in the draft (some people saying Leonard Williams?).

Manning's event is debatable...Roethlisberger is a not a QB I would want.

I stand by Winston being a ticking timebomb...he will F up again.

You can say whatever you want.

Let's be real. Winston has BUST written all over him. He could work out but I highly doubt it. I'd take the DT from USC or the WR from Alabama. I would guess it's about an 80% chance Winston will flop. There are just too many red flags and his talent is solid but not remotely off the charts. To me he looks like a slightly better version of EJ Manuel but with tons of character issues.

Pass.

(04-18-2015 06:08 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Let's be real. Winston has BUST written all over him. He could work out but I highly doubt it. I'd take the DT from USC or the WR from Alabama. I would guess it's about an 80% chance Winston will flop. There are just too many red flags and his talent is solid but not remotely off the charts. To me he looks like a slightly better version of EJ Manuel but with tons of character issues.

Pass.

(04-18-2015 06:08 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Let's be real. Winston has BUST RISK/REWARD written all over him. He could work out BUST but I highly doubt it. I'd not like you can take the DT from USC or the WR from Alabama. I would guess it's about an 80% 10-20% chance Winston will flop (but then, no QB is ever a sure thing). There are just too many red flags and his talent is solid but not remotely off the charts. To me he looks like a slightly better version of EJ Manuel Russell Wilson but with tons of character issues.

Pass.

FIFY

IMO, Winston is the most NFL-ready QB this year, but obviously if character issues persist at the next level his career could & would be ruined.

I don't even care about the character issues. That is not what I like least about him. Aside from the rapes, most of what he has done has been chickenshit stuff.

I do think he is better than Mariota but I do not believe he is worthy of a first overall pick. Tampa Bay will do it because the kid is played his college ball in Florida and because they are desperate for a quarterback. However, in a decent year for quarterbacks, nobody would be talking about this kid as a first overall prospect. Guys that go in that spot need to be can't miss prospects. Someone like Andrew Luck. I can't fathom that even the homerist of the Florida State homers thinks this kid is a can't miss prospect.

Fortunately for him, this year like the last few years, is very light at top end talent at that position, so he skyrockets up the charts – character issues and all.

I think he is only marginally athletic. I think his accuracy is middling. He has no composure whatsoever. He was a basket case against Oregon. And I don't think he has the strongest arm in the world.

I do believe he reads defenses well and that will help him. Also, I like his competitiveness. He is every bit the gamer that Johnny Football was last year and is much more talented than the former Texas A&M star. However, if it were my team and they were considering taking him first overall, I would not be pleased. I just don't think he's good enough to warrant that high of a selection. Then, when you factor in all of the character concerns, it becomes a no-brainer to pass on the kid.

I wish the Buccaneers nothing but the best but this kid has bust written all over him.

(04-19-2015 10:45 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I don't even care about the character issues. That is not what I like least about him. Aside from the rapes, most of what he has done has been chickenshit stuff.

I do think he is better than Mariota but I do not believe he is worthy of a first overall pick. Tampa Bay will do it because the kid is played his college ball in Florida and because they are desperate for a quarterback. However, in a decent year for quarterbacks, nobody would be talking about this kid as a first overall prospect. Guys that go in that spot need to be can't miss prospects. Someone like Andrew Luck. I can't fathom that even the homerist of the Florida State homers thinks this kid is a can't miss prospect.

Fortunately for him, this year like the last few years, is very light at top end talent at that position, so he skyrockets up the charts – character issues and all.

I think he is only marginally athletic. I think his accuracy is middling. He has no composure whatsoever. He was a basket case against Oregon. And I don't think he has the strongest arm in the world.

I do believe he reads defenses well and that will help him. Also, I like his competitiveness. He is every bit the gamer that Johnny Football was last year and is much more talented than the former Texas A&M star. However, if it were my team and they were considering taking him first overall, I would not be pleased. I just don't think he's good enough to warrant that high of a selection. Then, when you factor in all of the character concerns, it becomes a no-brainer to pass on the kid.

I wish the Buccaneers nothing but the best but this kid has bust written all over him.

I agree - Winston is not "can't miss" at all; he's simply the best in a below average QB draft.

I also understand your thinking about getting a better player at another position, but here's the thing: Right now the Bucs are bad enough to get the #1 overall pick. If they use it to get, say, a great pass rusher or even a series of 1st-round picks, they will likely draft lower next year. Then you are REALLY counting on a QB to sort of fall into your lap.

IMO, Winston is risky, but his upside is good enough to take the chance. Hey, if he bombs, they'll have another #1 pick soon enough...

Nobody is can't miss. So don't be a tool bag and say "only homer FSU fans"...

Drafting anybody is "risky", especially early in the 1st round, let alone #1 overall.

Most people are calling Winston the second best QB prospect since Luck. Nobody is saying he IS Luck, or that he's better than Luck. Mind you, aside from Manziel, I don't think any other QB has ever entered the NFL after only playing two non-redshirt years. That missed year for Winston could've made a huge difference in the perception of the generally ignorant public/message board poster. Nobody was saying Winston was a headcase in 2013 or that he threw too many INTs.

He's an average athlete with (at least) an above average arm. His accuracy is quite good. He reads defenses and anticipates his receivers very well. But he forced quite a few throws in 2014 that he did not force in 2013. He's strong in the pocket (ie, fends off defenders well, or at least at an average rate), though he holds onto the ball too long sometimes. He also has't shown to be good at throwing it away when necessary. (All that said, he's still the best QB prospect in this draft, arguably the best overall prospect in this draft, and easily one of the top QB prospects in the last 5 years.)

Not surprisingly, the people saying DON'T DRAFT WINSTON are failing to offer up a better pick in his stead.

These are exact excerpts from the testimony of Erica Kinsman (Winston accuser) during the Code of Conduct hearing in December. It is NOT the full transcript, but I have not doctored the following in any way.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:

Q: Complainant, when you left Potbelly's and went
outside were there numerous students outside of
Potbelly's that evening?
A: Yes. Like I said, it was kind of like the
end, like it was getting late so a lot of people were
kind of like leaving and stuff.

Q: And were -- and you said there were also
numerous cab drivers, cabs and cab drivers?
A: I don't specifically remember. But if you
want me to speculate then, yes, there usually are
several cabs.

Q: Okay. And the next question is, you did not
scream or make any other outcry to anyone outside of
Potbelly's that night, did you?
A: No, there was no screams.

Q: Okay. You also did not scream or make any
other outcry to the cab driver while he was driving the
four of you to Respondent's apartment; is that correct?
A: Yeah. At that point I was kind of just really
like scared and kind of -- I was in a state of just kind
of terror. So, no, there was no screams or outcries.

Q: All right. The next question is, when you
left the cab and were taken by your arm towards
Respondent's apartment you did not scream or make any
other outcry to any of the residents of the apartment
building; is that correct?
A: Yes.

Q: You made some statement earlier about his
hiding his face?
A: While we were in the bathroom he pushed my
face to the side, and I believe this was so I couldn't
see him or --

Q: But you had seen him earlier in the evening.
A: Pertaining to the man who gave me the shot or
pertaining to --
Q: Well, that you had had -- I'm wondering why it
would appear that he was turning your face at that time
to avoid your recognizing his face when you had been
with him the entire evening. And you may not know the
answer, I don't know.
A: Yeah, I'm not really sure about that.

Q: The question is, you did not -- you did not
make an outcry or scream in getting into the cab, but
was there a struggle in getting into the cab?
A: I mean, the point that I was trying to make
there was that I didn't get into the cab willingly. And
like I mentioned before, I don't think that I was forced
in, like I don't think that somebody picked me up and
put me into the cab. But at that time I was not a
hundred percent like willing to get into that cab. So
I'm not really sure what kind of like outcry or whatever
it was.
But something to be noted with that also is I
had my ID and money in my back pocket which I later
didn't have. The ID, I didn't have the ID later. But
the money was still in my pocket. So I believe that
some sort of struggle occurred for my ID to come out of
my pocket.

MS. BUKANC: And this is part of the reason
why the Judge is asking questions related to the
intimidation piece. And you've given reports
already so we're not trying to, you know, burden
you with more questions.
But I think that we're trying to understand
more about that intimidation and what exactly was
it. What was it specifically that made you feel
intimidated? Because you said you didn't want to
get in the cab.
COMPLAINANT: Right.

MS. BUKANC: And that's when it started, that
you started feeling afraid?
COMPLAINANT: Right.
MS. BUKANC: But from your statements and from
what I'm hearing we're still unclear what that
exactly means.
COMPLAINANT: Okay. I'll try to kind of --
MS. BUKANC: Is that okay?
COMPLAINANT: Yeah, that's fine.
I mean, I think for the most part the being
scared or being intimidated was because there is
three men here who I haven't met before this night;
who I don't know; who are all significantly bigger
than me; who are trying to get me into a cab to go
with them. And this is something that I've never
done. I've never gone home with a guy from a bar
before.
And so that was why I was kind of intimidated.
I wasn't sure how to react or what to do in that
situation. If that helps.


================


Just to add, the whole "intimidation" thing was important because that was one of the four Code of Conduct counts brought against Winston. Also, her ID is a topic of interest because at 1:45am she sends a text to one of her friends that she went to the bar with asking if her friend had her ID. There were actually a couple texts back and forth between her and her friend about the ID. This can be used to help determine Kinsman's likely location (bar, cab or apartment) at the time of the texts. It's also important because cabs give students a discounted rate for showing (presumably a student) ID and all parties agree they took a cab after leaving the bar.

This is an except of the testimony by the ER nurse who performed the exam on Kinsman.

Q: Before that, can you describe the components
of a forensic exam like this one?
A: Okay. As I said before, it would be a head to
toe assessment of the patient including an in detail
gynecological exam.

Q: Okay. And can you tell the Judge what you did
and what your findings were from the exam?
A: It shows a couple of bruises. She had a
bruise on her left forearm that was brown. She had a
brownish bruise on her knees and some redness just below
both of her kneecaps, and she had some mild redness on
the top of her right foot.
As far as perineal exam, she had mild
generalized vaginal tenderness and redness. No actual
lacerations, no bruising, no tears, but just generalized
redness.
That was the extent of the exam that I saw
that was abnormal.

Q: Could the vaginal redness that you noted be
consistent with consensual sex?
A: It can be.
Q Could the mild vaginal tenderness that you
noted be consensual -- be consistent with consensual
sex?
A: It can be.
Q: Could the mild redness that you noted on your
report be consistent with consensual sex?
A: Yes, it can.


==========

Just so we're all clear, brown bruises are 10-14 days old.

Marge havent you learned by now that the Pitt guy doesn't think rationally? He doesnt have any information whatsoever but he insists that Winston raped the girl just because he was accused of the crime. Nothing you do will convince people like that. It is a waste of time

Oh, I know they're a clown.

I'm more surprised nobody has bothered to make some wise remark about the code of conduct hearing testimony I provided.

Testimony by Kinsman's friend that she went to the bar with.

BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q: Now, you understand that this is a matter in
which Respondent has been charged with having sex
without consent, and I want to inquire of you what you
know in that regard.
It's my understanding that you were with
Complainant on the night of December the 6th and the
morning of December the 7th of 2012, and that you went
to Potbelly's.
And I would like for you to tell me what you
know in regard to that incident on that evening.
A: Okay. We went out to Pots. We were in our
dorm rooms before and like my friend, Ashley, drove us
there. We get to Pots and, yes, there was drinking
involved. We were there with a couple friends.
And we were hanging out inside for a while and
then we just like every time -- and I had to go to the
bathroom, and we went together. Obviously, we don't
leave someone. And when we went to the bathroom we went
out back. There is a bathroom inside, but usually the
one out back is bigger so we went to that one.
It was kind of strange because on our way out
someone kind of targeted her specifically like there is
a lot of people surrounding us and she was targeted,
someone grabbed her wrist. It wasn't like a hard grab,
but they like pull her away.
So automatically I went with her and it was a
boy and he started talking to her. And I was like,
okay, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Like can you
stay right here, like don't move anywhere, that kind of
thing.
So I went to the bathroom. I come back out of
the bathroom, she is still standing there talking. Then
he asked if he can have her number, and she looks at me
and I was like if you want to like you can give him your
number, and that's up to you. And then she gave him her
number and then we -- I like pulled her away and we went
back inside.
We were inside for a little bit longer and
then at one point she showed me her phone and it was
like come outside and it was from a number that like
wasn't saved or anything.

Q: It was like -- I'm sorry, there was a number
like what?
A: It wasn't saved.
Q: Okay.
A: Like at the top it was like show contacts, you
know.
Q: Okay.
A: But there was no -- like it was a new number.
Q: Okay.

A: She asked me if she should go or not, and I
said that's up to you. And after that I don't know
who --
She walked outside and I know she tried to
call me like but the calls didn't go through. I don't
know like who obviously she went with or what happened
on from that.
Q: Okay. And when was the next time you had
contact with her?
A: The next morning.

Q: Okay. And did the two of you or did she have,
to your knowledge, anything to drink that night?
A: Yes.
Q: And how much was that?
A: I mean, she is not one to be a big drinker.
We drank a little bit before we left and then she had
maybe like one -- a drink or two while we were there.
And I know she took a shot from someone. But it wasn't
very much for her to be -- she seemed fine. She didn't
seem intoxicated like she was walking holding herself
up.

Q: Okay. And when you talk about a shot, what do
you mean by that?
A: Like a little cup. It wasn't like full
alcohol -- it probably had a little alcohol and like
juice with it or some sort of thing.

Q: Okay. All right. And you say she showed you
her telephone and there was a message on that that said
come outside?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: And she inquired of you what she should do?
A: Right.
Q: And you indicated what?
A: I said it's up to you, like if you want to you
can go.
Q: And she left and went out?
A: Uh-huh.

(04-21-2015 02:45 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Testimony by Kinsman's friend that she went to the bar with.

BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q: Now, you understand that this is a matter in
which Respondent has been charged with having sex
without consent, and I want to inquire of you what you
know in that regard.
It's my understanding that you were with
Complainant on the night of December the 6th and the
morning of December the 7th of 2012, and that you went
to Potbelly's.
And I would like for you to tell me what you
know in regard to that incident on that evening.
A: Okay. We went out to Pots. We were in our
dorm rooms before and like my friend, Ashley, drove us
there. We get to Pots and, yes, there was drinking
involved. We were there with a couple friends.
And we were hanging out inside for a while and
then we just like every time -- and I had to go to the
bathroom, and we went together. Obviously, we don't
leave someone. And when we went to the bathroom we went
out back. There is a bathroom inside, but usually the
one out back is bigger so we went to that one.
It was kind of strange because on our way out
someone kind of targeted her specifically like there is
a lot of people surrounding us and she was targeted,
someone grabbed her wrist. It wasn't like a hard grab,
but they like pull her away.
So automatically I went with her and it was a
boy and he started talking to her. And I was like,
okay, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Like can you
stay right here, like don't move anywhere, that kind of
thing.
So I went to the bathroom. I come back out of
the bathroom, she is still standing there talking. Then
he asked if he can have her number, and she looks at me
and I was like if you want to like you can give him your
number, and that's up to you. And then she gave him her
number and then we -- I like pulled her away and we went
back inside.
We were inside for a little bit longer and
then at one point she showed me her phone and it was
like come outside and it was from a number that like
wasn't saved or anything.

Q: It was like -- I'm sorry, there was a number
like what?
A: It wasn't saved.
Q: Okay.
A: Like at the top it was like show contacts, you
know.
Q: Okay.
A: But there was no -- like it was a new number.
Q: Okay.

A: She asked me if she should go or not, and I
said that's up to you. And after that I don't know
who --
She walked outside and I know she tried to
call me like but the calls didn't go through. I don't
know like who obviously she went with or what happened
on from that.
Q: Okay. And when was the next time you had
contact with her?
A: The next morning.

Q: Okay. And did the two of you or did she have,
to your knowledge, anything to drink that night?
A: Yes.
Q: And how much was that?
A: I mean, she is not one to be a big drinker.
We drank a little bit before we left and then she had
maybe like one -- a drink or two while we were there.
And I know she took a shot from someone. But it wasn't
very much for her to be -- she seemed fine. She didn't
seem intoxicated like she was walking holding herself
up.

Q: Okay. And when you talk about a shot, what do
you mean by that?
A: Like a little cup. It wasn't like full
alcohol -- it probably had a little alcohol and like
juice with it or some sort of thing.

Q: Okay. All right. And you say she showed you
her telephone and there was a message on that that said
come outside?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: And she inquired of you what she should do?
A: Right.
Q: And you indicated what?
A: I said it's up to you, like if you want to you
can go.
Q: And she left and went out?
A: Uh-huh.

After reading all that, I'm convinced he's like all guilty as hell and stuff.

Well, one semi-wise remark. I'm rather disappointed in this board's efforts.