(04-26-2015 12:05 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

Important as far as realignment goes.

SJSU got a MWC invite after having bottom five attendance .

Georgia ST is one of the favorites to replace UAB is another example.

FIU and FAU according to their fans don't average ten thousand a game .

Georgia Southern and APP ST being the last two FCS call ups is another example.
They average close to a sell out yet were passed over even by start up programs .

ECU getting a football only invite at first and being selected after Tulane.

When you look at the AAC and CUSA expansions, they pretty much followed athletic budget. They almost went straight down the line. Georgia St. has a bigger budget than the typical Sun Belt school. So do all the schools invited to the CUSA from the Sun Belt. It was kind of hard to understand some of the CUSA rationale until you look at that USA Today database on athletic budgets.

Now the question is whether they can maintain those budgets without attendance.

(04-26-2015 12:05 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

Important as far as realignment goes.

SJSU got a MWC invite after having bottom five attendance .

Georgia ST is one of the favorites to replace UAB is another example.

FIU and FAU according to their fans don't average ten thousand a game .

Georgia Southern and APP ST being the last two FCS call ups is another example.
They average close to a sell out yet were passed over even by start up programs .

ECU getting a football only invite at first and being selected after Tulane.

SJSU got an invite because the remaining options to 12 were Idaho, NMSU, and SJSU. Nuff said.

FIU and FAU because the eastern wing of CUSA insisted that the league return to Florida.

ECU got a football only invite when the power bloc of Big East was a group of non-football schools who would not tolerate ECU's full membership. Soon as they leave they get full membership. Same group of schools who initially refused full BE membership to schools now full members of ACC.

CUSA made market decisions. We are now 14 months from the new TV deal being effective to see if they were brilliant or complete fools.

(04-26-2015 12:05 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

Important as far as realignment goes.

SJSU got a MWC invite after having bottom five attendance .

Georgia ST is one of the favorites to replace UAB is another example.

FIU and FAU according to their fans don't average ten thousand a game .

Georgia Southern and APP ST being the last two FCS call ups is another example.
They average close to a sell out yet were passed over even by start up programs .

ECU getting a football only invite at first and being selected after Tulane.

First none of those programs have been extended invites to a so called p-5 conference.
Yes important as far as realignment goes, however in a different context than you are suggesting. Good recruiting leads to good football, good football leads to good results, good results lead to good programs, good programs lead to good followings, good following leads to good profit, and good profit leads to good realignment options. Each of those programs have not established the winning traditions against p-5 programs needed for consideration (absent ECU). In ECU's situation, I believe the P-5 believe they have peaked because of their perceived small market. If it were not for ECU's perceived small market I believe they would already be in a so called p-5 conference. You will not find a more passionate fanbase. So yes, good attendance leads to good recruits. Now instead of using the teams you suggested to bolster your point, look to see who was invited to join the big boy club. Teams like Louisville, West Virginia, Virginia tech etc...

(04-26-2015 12:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

The MAC has made a trade-off. They play those T/W games in front of few fans in order to get exposure in TV. For them, its, "Would you rather play on ESPN on national TV or would you rather have 10,000 more fans in the stadium."

But overall, attendance means resources to compete.

Spot on. Same thing we are going through on a larger scale here

(04-26-2015 12:38 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 12:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

The MAC has made a trade-off. They play those T/W games in front of few fans in order to get exposure in TV. For them, its, "Would you rather play on ESPN on national TV or would you rather have 10,000 more fans in the stadium."

But overall, attendance means resources to compete.

Spot on. Same thing we are going through on a larger scale here

To bad the MAC schools couldn't find a way to make the stadiums look fuller . They shoot home side to visiting side. So the less impressive and less full side is shown.
Having the cameras on the opposite side and selling only home side seats until full would help.

(04-26-2015 09:44 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 01:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am not blind or a fool on what is going. Usually a die-hard fan of Texas would be blind. I remember since I used to live in Norman on who the Sooners fans blamed for the break up of the rivalry of the Oklahoma/Nebraska games? They blamed the Texas schools. They still blame Texas the most to this day. The hatred went deeper when they completely lost Nebraska to the Big 10, Colorado to the PAC 12 and Missouri to the SEC. Those three schools were their long time rivalry games. The fools are the ones who are blind and not open on how to keep the conference to survive. Texas was the one blamed for destroying the SWC, and they are being blamed for the destruction of the Big 12.

Then those fans don't know their history. Wouldn't be the first time fans jumped to a wrong conclusion.

1- OU itself (via AD Donnie Duncan) actively sought out the SWC expansion candidates. He was at the center of it all. He and the rest of the Big 8 knew they needed to expand or else they'd be picked apart. CU almost left anyway to go West back then.

2- OU turned down a fixed rival proposal to play NU every year. At the time they didn't want to be forced into both teams every year as league opponents. Texas wasn't easy and NU was a juggernaut back then.

So OU made those decisions themselves. The fans may be passionate but they are wrong.

Plus it is the fans who are spending money to the games, and it should be up to them on who they want. I have seen on PAC 12 fan forums and polls done by ESPN that the PAC 12 fans are in love with Boise State, and not so keen about Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The reason is that they want to travel as well. Going that far east kills their budget in this type of economy. Washington and Washington State fans would love to have Boise State because they could drive to the game, and spend a day there. As it is, I am seeing empty seats in Washington, Washington State and Oregon State stands. Even seen some empty seats in California, Stanford, UCLA and USC. Some say it is because of they share the same city with a pro team, but another issue is people can't afford plane tickets hotel and motel stays and other things. Driving to a game is much more cheaper than flying so far away because you don't spend money on hotel/motel costs and plane tickets. I seen that stadiums sell more tickets if it is a team from the same state or close by from another state.

(04-26-2015 12:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

The MAC has made a trade-off. They play those T/W games in front of few fans in order to get exposure in TV. For them, its, "Would you rather play on ESPN on national TV or would you rather have 10,000 more fans in the stadium."

But overall, attendance means resources to compete.

The only time the MAC draws the crowd for home games is when a P5 school comes to town. Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. and some top MAC schools showed that they can have fan support, but they don't turn out to watch bottom feeders like Akron, Kent U. and Eastern Michigan. U. Mass. draws crowds when they play schools like Boston College, Penn. State and all that. That is why I said that we should look at the schools fan base when big name teams come to town. Villanova's fanbase turnout that was high as a home team was when they played Temple. FCS fans tend to be higher turnout when the opponents are FBS. In some cases. the Dakota schools and Eastern Washington fans tend to travel to opposing teams. In most cases? The fans have really nothing else to watch since no pro teams and all that which usually the fans tend to actually help sell seats in their opponent's stadiums. Eastern Washington helped Washington and Washington State's stadiums because of their fans. Weber State, Montana, Montana State and Northern Arizona fans tend to do the same. Northern Arizona fans go watch their team play against Arizona and Arizona State games even though they lose. In say fanbase are high in Eastern Washington, Utah, Western Nevada, inland California, Idaho, Northern Arizona, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Southern Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, Northern Missouri, mid-Atlantic and the southeast. I would also say that New Haven fans are more supportive than U. Conn.'s fans for football and they are a D2 private school.

(04-26-2015 06:52 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 09:44 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 01:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am not blind or a fool on what is going. Usually a die-hard fan of Texas would be blind. I remember since I used to live in Norman on who the Sooners fans blamed for the break up of the rivalry of the Oklahoma/Nebraska games? They blamed the Texas schools. They still blame Texas the most to this day. The hatred went deeper when they completely lost Nebraska to the Big 10, Colorado to the PAC 12 and Missouri to the SEC. Those three schools were their long time rivalry games. The fools are the ones who are blind and not open on how to keep the conference to survive. Texas was the one blamed for destroying the SWC, and they are being blamed for the destruction of the Big 12.

Then those fans don't know their history. Wouldn't be the first time fans jumped to a wrong conclusion.

1- OU itself (via AD Donnie Duncan) actively sought out the SWC expansion candidates. He was at the center of it all. He and the rest of the Big 8 knew they needed to expand or else they'd be picked apart. CU almost left anyway to go West back then.

2- OU turned down a fixed rival proposal to play NU every year. At the time they didn't want to be forced into both teams every year as league opponents. Texas wasn't easy and NU was a juggernaut back then.

So OU made those decisions themselves. The fans may be passionate but they are wrong.

Plus it is the fans who are spending money to the games, and it should be up to them on who they want. I have seen on PAC 12 fan forums and polls done by ESPN that the PAC 12 fans are in love with Boise State, and not so keen about Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The reason is that they want to travel as well. Going that far east kills their budget in this type of economy. Washington and Washington State fans would love to have Boise State because they could drive to the game, and spend a day there. As it is, I am seeing empty seats in Washington, Washington State and Oregon State stands. Even seen some empty seats in California, Stanford, UCLA and USC. Some say it is because of they share the same city with a pro team, but another issue is people can't afford plane tickets hotel and motel stays and other things. Driving to a game is much more cheaper than flying so far away because you don't spend money on hotel/motel costs and plane tickets. I seen that stadiums sell more tickets if it is a team from the same state or close by from another state.

Some people do not see the big picture of what type of issues having a conference that is far apart across the country. C-USA was not very good, and neither was the Big East when the Big East imploded. I could see that West Virginia will leave the Big 12 because they were promised some teams joining them on the east.

(04-26-2015 07:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some people do not see the big picture of what type of issues having a conference that is far apart across the country. C-USA was not very good, and neither was the Big East when the Big East imploded. I could see that West Virginia will leave the Big 12 because they were promised some teams joining them on the east.

Cmon David, think this through. In order for West Virginia to leave the b-12 they would have to have somewhere to go. Where are they going?

(04-26-2015 08:19 PM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 07:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some people do not see the big picture of what type of issues having a conference that is far apart across the country. C-USA was not very good, and neither was the Big East when the Big East imploded. I could see that West Virginia will leave the Big 12 because they were promised some teams joining them on the east.

Cmon David, think this through. In order for West Virginia to leave the b-12 they would have to have somewhere to go. Where are they going?

The ACC would be the most logical spot.

If you have a large fan base, you have a large amount of viewers.

If you don't, you rely on a large city to make your case. I think we all know how that goes.

(04-26-2015 07:08 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 12:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

The MAC has made a trade-off. They play those T/W games in front of few fans in order to get exposure in TV. For them, its, "Would you rather play on ESPN on national TV or would you rather have 10,000 more fans in the stadium."

But overall, attendance means resources to compete.

The only time the MAC draws the crowd for home games is when a P5 school comes to town. Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. and some top MAC schools showed that they can have fan support, but they don't turn out to watch bottom feeders like Akron, Kent U. and Eastern Michigan.

Ohio's top 10 all time crowds only include 2 P5 schools. Akron is #2 all time crowd.

1) New Mexico State 25,893 (Sept 8, 2012)
2) Akron 25,542 (Oct, 13 2012)
3) Idaho 25,211 (Sept, 20 2014)
4) Marshall 24,836 (Sept, 14 2013)
5) Connecticut 24,617 (Sept, 5 2009)
6) Pittsburgh 24,545 (Sept, 9 2005)
7) North Texas 24,511 (Sept, 7 2013)
8) Bowling Green 24,311 (Oct, 11 2014)
9) Marshall 24,244 (Sept, 17 2011)
10) Iowa State 24,000 (Sept, 22 2001)

What it shows more is the crowds at MAC schools are better in September when the weather is consistent than when you get later into fall. The ones in October are homecoming games.

November MAC games are on ESPN and often the MAC team is in the toilet by that point lessening interest in attending.

(04-26-2015 11:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 07:08 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 12:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:51 AM)NestaKnight1 Wrote:  Attendance is VERY IMPORTANT, just ask any recruit the question, "would you rather play in front of a lot of people, or a few people?" Voila, you have your answer, unless your of the opinion that recruits don't matter either.

The MAC has made a trade-off. They play those T/W games in front of few fans in order to get exposure in TV. For them, its, "Would you rather play on ESPN on national TV or would you rather have 10,000 more fans in the stadium."

But overall, attendance means resources to compete.

The only time the MAC draws the crowd for home games is when a P5 school comes to town. Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U. and some top MAC schools showed that they can have fan support, but they don't turn out to watch bottom feeders like Akron, Kent U. and Eastern Michigan.

Ohio's top 10 all time crowds only include 2 P5 schools. Akron is #2 all time crowd.

1) New Mexico State 25,893 (Sept 8, 2012)
2) Akron 25,542 (Oct, 13 2012)
3) Idaho 25,211 (Sept, 20 2014)
4) Marshall 24,836 (Sept, 14 2013)
5) Connecticut 24,617 (Sept, 5 2009)
6) Pittsburgh 24,545 (Sept, 9 2005)
7) North Texas 24,511 (Sept, 7 2013)
8) Bowling Green 24,311 (Oct, 11 2014)
9) Marshall 24,244 (Sept, 17 2011)
10) Iowa State 24,000 (Sept, 22 2001)

What it shows more is the crowds at MAC schools are better in September when the weather is consistent than when you get later into fall. The ones in October are homecoming games.

November MAC games are on ESPN and often the MAC team is in the toilet by that point lessening interest in attending.

Pittsburgh was 5-6 that year. Ohio U. beat them that year. There is a difference between Pittsburgh and Ohio State. Lets say Ohio U. played Ohio State on that day? The fan base would have exploded.