I cannot get into the Superman versus Batman concept. I need at least a thin reed of plausibility to grasp before accepting willing suspension of disbelief. There is no way Batman can beat Superman without employing the well worn and boring Krytonite weapon. No thanks.
(04-17-2015 03:58 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: I cannot get into the Superman versus Batman concept. I need at least a thin reed of plausibility to grasp before accepting willing suspension of disbelief. There is no way Batman can beat Superman without employing the well worn and boring Krytonite weapon. No thanks.
You should watch the Dark Knight Returns which inspired the battle. Two things Batman has... The smarts to outthink Supes and a lack of compassion that Superman would have fighting a human..
If Lex Luthor can conceivably beat Superman, why couldn't Batman?
Plus Superman doesn't know Kryptonite. Being in the Kryptonian atmosphere surprised him in Man of Steel so Batman or Lex Luthor could pop it on him and he end up completely surprised.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 04:13 PM by Latilleon.)
In DKR superman is as close to killed as possible by a Soviet doomsday sized nuclear blast. When he and bat man threw down in crime alley he was maybe 5% normal powers. Batmans suit was tied into the cities power grid and employed surface to air missiles, sonic weapons, acids and synthesized kryptonite gas to ultimately "defeat" superman before faking his own death
(04-17-2015 05:30 PM)tigerjeb Wrote: In DKR superman is as close to killed as possible by a Soviet doomsday sized nuclear blast. When he and bat man threw down in crime alley he was maybe 5% normal powers. Batmans suit was tied into the cities power grid and employed surface to air missiles, sonic weapons, acids and synthesized kryptonite gas to ultimately "defeat" superman before faking his own death
Snyder does realize these movies are supposed to be kinda....fun, doesn't he? That just looks awfully serious for a movie featuring a dude dressed like a bat and a flying alien who wears tights.
It seems like they've doubled down on the complaints of Man of Steel. That movie was a terrible interpretation of the character. They could have made a sequel that is truer to the character, but they don't want to admit they screwed up. Instead they add Batman and make it even darker and more serious. It's as if WB is saying "Look! We knew what we were doing all along!"
Somewhere between Superman Returns and Man of Steel lies a perfect Superman movie.
(04-17-2015 07:41 PM)TigerNK Wrote: Snyder does realize these movies are supposed to be kinda....fun, doesn't he? That just looks awfully serious for a movie featuring a dude dressed like a bat and a flying alien who wears tights.
It seems like they've doubled down on the complaints of Man of Steel. That movie was a terrible interpretation of the character. They could have made a sequel that is truer to the character, but they don't want to admit they screwed up. Instead they add Batman and make it even darker and more serious. It's as if WB is saying "Look! We knew what we were doing all along!"
Somewhere between Superman Returns and Man of Steel lies a perfect Superman movie.
I loved MoS and thought Superman Returns was crap. A combo would be mediocre.
SR was going for the tone of the Donner movie(s). I don't like those. I don't know why a movie called Batman v. Superman would surprise anyone with a serious tone and a dark color scheme. The whole theme seems like a metaphor for the complaints about MoS.
They have Neil D Tyson giving commentary and Mark Zuckerberg as evil Lex Luthor. How could you not love that?
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 08:03 PM by Latilleon.)
I think WB just doesn't want to admit that treating Superman like he's Batman was a bad idea. Instead of making a sequel that more cloesly depicts Superman as he's been known and loved for 85 years, they literally just put him in a Batman movie. LOL
(04-17-2015 08:04 PM)TigerNK Wrote: I think WB just doesn't want to admit that treating Superman like he's Batman was a bad idea. Instead of making a sequel that more cloesly depicts Superman as he's been known and loved for 85 years, they literally just put him in a Batman movie. LOL
You mean the Boy Scout? Ever notice how Superman isn't big outside of the U.S.? Maybe it's because Superman stories are boring because he is a goody two shoes and too powerful? What kind of story can you create? Even Captain America is lonely and overwhelmed with leadership expectation.
Why can't Superman be down about his identity and the pressure of hero worship?
(04-17-2015 08:04 PM)TigerNK Wrote: I think WB just doesn't want to admit that treating Superman like he's Batman was a bad idea. Instead of making a sequel that more cloesly depicts Superman as he's been known and loved for 85 years, they literally just put him in a Batman movie. LOL
You mean the Boy Scout? Ever notice how Superman isn't big outside of the U.S.? Maybe it's because Superman stories are boring because he is a goody two shoes and too powerful? What kind of story can you create? Even Captain America is lonely and overwhelmed with leadership expectation.
Why can't Superman be down about his identity and the pressure of hero worship?
To be very clear, the first 60 minutes of Man of Steel is a really good Superman movie. I like how it adapts some of the modern stories like Birthright, Earth One, etc. The emotional conflict he deals with is a very modern way to portray Superman and it largely works.
The problem with Man of Steel is the last hour, where it becomes a Transformers movie. Superman Returns was thought to have not enough action, so WB decided to blow up as much stuff as they could in 60 minutes to appease the complainers. The problem with that is for 85 years Superman has not allowed himself to be responsible for that level of destruction and civilian casualties. Superman does not kill. It simply isn't part of the character. They were so worried about selling tickets and appealing to 15 year old boys that they forgot they were making a SUPERMAN movie, not just the next big budget effects movie.......that happens to star a character called Superman.
Marvel took the most goody two shoes character of all and gave him a gritty, modern movie........that was true to the character. Winter Soldier is a darkly themed, modern movie that is above all a CAPTAIN AMERICA movie.
Wrong producers. Wrong writers. Wrong director. That's where WB fails and Marvel excels.
(04-18-2015 06:36 AM)salukiblue Wrote: He did snap Zods neck at least...very un Superman like.
I think that was the point. It was an origin story and he was trying to find himself. He'll probably not take another life or fully utilize his powers because he snapped Zod's neck.
(04-17-2015 08:04 PM)TigerNK Wrote: I think WB just doesn't want to admit that treating Superman like he's Batman was a bad idea. Instead of making a sequel that more cloesly depicts Superman as he's been known and loved for 85 years, they literally just put him in a Batman movie. LOL
You mean the Boy Scout? Ever notice how Superman isn't big outside of the U.S.? Maybe it's because Superman stories are boring because he is a goody two shoes and too powerful? What kind of story can you create? Even Captain America is lonely and overwhelmed with leadership expectation.
Why can't Superman be down about his identity and the pressure of hero worship?
To be very clear, the first 60 minutes of Man of Steel is a really good Superman movie. I like how it adapts some of the modern stories like Birthright, Earth One, etc. The emotional conflict he deals with is a very modern way to portray Superman and it largely works.
The problem with Man of Steel is the last hour, where it becomes a Transformers movie. Superman Returns was thought to have not enough action, so WB decided to blow up as much stuff as they could in 60 minutes to appease the complainers. The problem with that is for 85 years Superman has not allowed himself to be responsible for that level of destruction and civilian casualties. Superman does not kill. It simply isn't part of the character. They were so worried about selling tickets and appealing to 15 year old boys that they forgot they were making a SUPERMAN movie, not just the next big budget effects movie.......that happens to star a character called Superman.
Marvel took the most goody two shoes character of all and gave him a gritty, modern movie........that was true to the character. Winter Soldier is a darkly themed, modern movie that is above all a CAPTAIN AMERICA movie.
Wrong producers. Wrong writers. Wrong director. That's where WB fails and Marvel excels.
(04-17-2015 08:04 PM)TigerNK Wrote: I think WB just doesn't want to admit that treating Superman like he's Batman was a bad idea. Instead of making a sequel that more cloesly depicts Superman as he's been known and loved for 85 years, they literally just put him in a Batman movie. LOL
You mean the Boy Scout? Ever notice how Superman isn't big outside of the U.S.? Maybe it's because Superman stories are boring because he is a goody two shoes and too powerful? What kind of story can you create? Even Captain America is lonely and overwhelmed with leadership expectation.
Why can't Superman be down about his identity and the pressure of hero worship?
To be very clear, the first 60 minutes of Man of Steel is a really good Superman movie. I like how it adapts some of the modern stories like Birthright, Earth One, etc. The emotional conflict he deals with is a very modern way to portray Superman and it largely works.
The problem with Man of Steel is the last hour, where it becomes a Transformers movie. Superman Returns was thought to have not enough action, so WB decided to blow up as much stuff as they could in 60 minutes to appease the complainers. The problem with that is for 85 years Superman has not allowed himself to be responsible for that level of destruction and civilian casualties. Superman does not kill. It simply isn't part of the character. They were so worried about selling tickets and appealing to 15 year old boys that they forgot they were making a SUPERMAN movie, not just the next big budget effects movie.......that happens to star a character called Superman.
Marvel took the most goody two shoes character of all and gave him a gritty, modern movie........that was true to the character. Winter Soldier is a darkly themed, modern movie that is above all a CAPTAIN AMERICA movie.
Wrong producers. Wrong writers. Wrong director. That's where WB fails and Marvel excels.
You've mentioned this before... Wondering how Chris Nolan is the "wrong" producer. If superman is finding himself, how does he define his limits? You liked the beginning and the things Kevin Costner told him... Well that Jonathan Kent was cold. That Jonathan Kent sacrificed himself so that Clark could hide his abilities (even though the whole town already knew he had them). Why wouldn't that Superman not concern himself with collateral damage if he is willing to go all Spock to save the Earth? If Zod will going to kill everyone on else, what difference does it mean to destroy a downtown as a means to an end... A downtown of a city he hasn't moved to at that point in time.
Why can't Superman have character development to make him the boy scout?
He didn't know where he came from and when he found out, he discovered his planet was destroyed. His parents are dead. His adoptive father is dead. He's been wandering the global trying to find his place. I think the logic of the movie is sturdy.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2015 09:02 AM by Latilleon.)
You are believing the nonsense explanations that the production team has been feeding the public since the movie's release. These explanations of "he must find his limits" and what not are nothing more than sad excuses to justify shoddy and inconsistent story telling. Nothing more, nothing less. They are literally building a sequel (that actually stars Batman) around their justifications for their lack of story telling abilities. That is sad.
They built a solid emotional core with the first hour of the movie. They abandoned that in the name of modern, big-budget Hollywood film making that attempts to get butts in the seats and worries about nothing else. In Winter Soldier, you can feel what Cap is going through as the big ending action sequences unfold, having to fight his best friend who wants to kill him. They make you care for Cap. They make you care for Bucky. The emotional core of the film is resonant in the action.
That is where Man of Steel failed miserably. There is no story being told as you watch 45 minutes of destruction. You finally get something to that effect at the very end with Zod in the train station, but the acting and writing is so wooden that it falls flat, especially when you consider the result is something Superman simply does not do in his 85 years of history.
But that's what you get when you hire David Goyer to write your film and Zack Snyder to direct it. They simply don't possess the skills needed to tell a proper Superman movie.
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Batman vs. Superman leaked trailer
