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DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 08:59 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The Courts aren't consistent on when life begins i.e. when Constitutional protection begins the either.

Some states allow abortion up until birth, some have moved that date back to viability but in either case…
How come someone can be charged with murder if they kill a fetus in a car accident but not if they surgically remove it in an abortion? Is the litmus test for whether or not its murder, whether or not the child is wanted?

If you can't understand the difference then you have no business commenting on the issue.
04-17-2015 10:45 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 08:42 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:37 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I wouldn't want to be married to someone who is only alive because she killed her child. Women and their hormones and mood swings are difficult enough. Imagine the emotional basketcase that would create.

That's how you win over those female voters.

Yeah, that would be suicide, but I'm anonymous and not running. Not even takinging a position, just a personal thought.

04-cheers

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04-17-2015 10:53 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #63
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 10:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:59 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The Courts aren't consistent on when life begins i.e. when Constitutional protection begins the either.

Some states allow abortion up until birth, some have moved that date back to viability but in either case…
How come someone can be charged with murder if they kill a fetus in a car accident but not if they surgically remove it in an abortion? Is the litmus test for whether or not its murder, whether or not the child is wanted?

If you can't understand the difference then you have no business commenting on the issue.

She understands the issue far better than your feeble mind ever will. Just be quite.
04-17-2015 10:56 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 10:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 10:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:59 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The Courts aren't consistent on when life begins i.e. when Constitutional protection begins the either.

Some states allow abortion up until birth, some have moved that date back to viability but in either case…
How come someone can be charged with murder if they kill a fetus in a car accident but not if they surgically remove it in an abortion? Is the litmus test for whether or not its murder, whether or not the child is wanted?

If you can't understand the difference then you have no business commenting on the issue.

Unless you are willing to give a valid argument other than "feeble mind" and relying on sensationalist headlines...just give up. I'm not wasting my time on someone who can't make a real argument.

She understands the issue far better than your feeble mind ever will. Just be quite.
04-17-2015 11:00 PM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #65
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-16-2015 11:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  So we all have this straight, we can infer from the DNC Party Chair: Infanticide is a plank in the DNC Party Platform. Got it.

What is your answer to my question?

BTW I am a woman.

In that instance, I can unequivocally say that 'd save the baby and sacrifice myself. I've had years. My infant hasn't.

What mother, who has carried an infant in her womb for months, given that situation, selfishly chooses herself?

My ex-wife did and it destroyed our marriage. Before she delivered, she said if it came to her or the baby surviving, I should pick her.

I would die for my children if I had to. There is no "decision" to make. I couldn't believe she could be that selfish.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 11:10 PM by UConn-SMU.)
04-17-2015 11:08 PM
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dfarr Offline
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Post: #66
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 11:08 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  So we all have this straight, we can infer from the DNC Party Chair: Infanticide is a plank in the DNC Party Platform. Got it.

What is your answer to my question?

BTW I am a woman.

In that instance, I can unequivocally say that 'd save the baby and sacrifice myself. I've had years. My infant hasn't.

What mother, who has carried an infant in her womb for months, given that situation, selfishly chooses herself?

My ex-wife did and it destroyed our marriage. Before she delivered, she said if it came to her or the baby surviving, I should pick her.

I would die for my children if I had to. There is no "decision" to make. I couldn't believe she could be that selfish.

As someone who has actually lost an infant, I can tell you that I would die a thousand times over just so that my son would be able to live. My wife feels the same way.
04-17-2015 11:11 PM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #67
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 11:11 PM)dfarr Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 11:08 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:11 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:51 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  So we all have this straight, we can infer from the DNC Party Chair: Infanticide is a plank in the DNC Party Platform. Got it.

What is your answer to my question?

BTW I am a woman.

In that instance, I can unequivocally say that 'd save the baby and sacrifice myself. I've had years. My infant hasn't.

What mother, who has carried an infant in her womb for months, given that situation, selfishly chooses herself?

My ex-wife did and it destroyed our marriage. Before she delivered, she said if it came to her or the baby surviving, I should pick her.

I would die for my children if I had to. There is no "decision" to make. I couldn't believe she could be that selfish.

As someone who has actually lost an infant, I can tell you that I would die a thousand times over just so that my son would be able to live. My wife feels the same way.

I'm sorry for your loss. You and your wife sound like great people. I wish my ex felt the same way you do; we'd still be married.
04-17-2015 11:28 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 08:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I wouldn't want to be married to someone who is only alive because she killed her child. Women and their hormones and mood swings are difficult enough. Imagine the emotional basketcase that would create.

So you're telling me, if the Fetus has a 99% chance of dying, and the mother has 100% chance...

You would actually fault her for choosing abortion? Granted not every case is that dire, but for a lot of cases the survival chance is closer to 0% than it is 100%.
04-17-2015 11:55 PM
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JMUDunk Online
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Post: #69
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-17-2015 10:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:59 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The Courts aren't consistent on when life begins i.e. when Constitutional protection begins the either.

Some states allow abortion up until birth, some have moved that date back to viability but in either case…
How come someone can be charged with murder if they kill a fetus in a car accident but not if they surgically remove it in an abortion? Is the litmus test for whether or not its murder, whether or not the child is wanted?

If you can't understand the difference then you have no business commenting on the issue.

Then tell us the difference oh, great sage. We are the ignorant masses, awaiting your vapid wit. 07-coffee3
04-18-2015 01:54 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 01:54 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 10:45 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:59 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  The Courts aren't consistent on when life begins i.e. when Constitutional protection begins the either.

Some states allow abortion up until birth, some have moved that date back to viability but in either case…
How come someone can be charged with murder if they kill a fetus in a car accident but not if they surgically remove it in an abortion? Is the litmus test for whether or not its murder, whether or not the child is wanted?

If you can't understand the difference then you have no business commenting on the issue.

Then tell us the difference oh, great sage. We are the ignorant masses, awaiting your vapid wit. 07-coffee3

Um lets see: One is done under the condition of free will, consent, voluntary, legal, in a controlled setting, and in a medical office. The other is the exact opposite of all of that.

If you can't tell the difference between criminal negligence triggering an involuntary miscarriage vs. a voluntary abortion, something is seriously wrong with you.


Wanna know how this looks from my POV?

You: What is the difference between a car accident and an abortion

Me: Um...One is a car accident, the other is an abortion...

or

You: Then tell us the difference oh, great sage. We are the ignorant masses, awaiting your vapid wit.

Me: Water is wet.


03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2015 02:29 AM by john01992.)
04-18-2015 02:25 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #71
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
Still have a hard time reconciling how hispanics can, for the most part, be so pro dem when the dem abortion stance is the direct opposite of hispanic beliefs. I guess one issue trumps the other?
04-18-2015 06:24 AM
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Post: #72
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 06:24 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Still have a hard time reconciling how hispanics can, for the most part, be so pro dem when the dem abortion stance is the direct opposite of hispanic beliefs. I guess one issue trumps the other?

The Dem stance of looking the Other Way while the Borders are in other words Open for Family & Friends to migrate Trumps All else.
04-18-2015 07:43 AM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #73
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-16-2015 10:54 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  ERC, if your wife was pregnant with a 7 pound baby and the doctors told you that your wife would die during child birth, would you want the government to make the decision on whose life to save, or would you want to make that decision yourself in consultation with your doctor?

The democratic position is that it should be made by the family and the doctor.

Your continual assertion that anyone in favor of abortion rights supports murder and/or that it means nothing to them is disgusting and highly offensive.
So you just pulled out one scenario that accounts for about 1% of all abortions. You really think she was talking about 1% of abortions?
04-18-2015 08:27 AM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #74
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 06:24 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Still have a hard time reconciling how hispanics can, for the most part, be so pro dem when the dem abortion stance is the direct opposite of hispanic beliefs. I guess one issue trumps the other?

The Democrats branded themselves the anti-white party long ago. That trumps all other issues for minorities. Things like abortion, the economy, etc. are lower on the totem pole.
04-18-2015 08:31 AM
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Post: #75
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 02:25 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Wanna know how this looks from my POV?

You: What is the difference between a car accident and an abortion

Me: Um...One is a car accident, the other is an abortion...

or

You: Then tell us the difference oh, great sage. We are the ignorant masses, awaiting your vapid wit.

Me: Water is wet.


03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead

So what you are saying is that whether or not a life is protected by law isn't contingent on the actual properties or developmental stage of a particular human life, but whether or not that life is wanted? Good to know. If that's the case, orphan's lives should not be protected by the law.

Seems like a very blatant contradiction to me. Pro-abortionists simply don't seem to like people pointing out obvious logical extensions of and contradictions within their beliefs. According to their view, the destruction of a wanted fetus should basically be a destruction of property charge. But let's not call it that. Wouldn't want to make pro-abortionists uncomfortable with their own beliefs.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2015 08:40 AM by EigenEagle.)
04-18-2015 08:39 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #76
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
Tom is a really messed up Christian. On the one hand, and I don't sugar-coat it, it is what it is, supports womens right to murder their own children, then on the other hand finds it "disgusting and highly offensive" that I or anyone would speak the truth of it.

A true Christian would reserve his disgust and offense for the person who supports "abortion murder rights".
04-18-2015 08:46 AM
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mptnstr@44 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
"Any extension of fetal rights to nonviable fetuses can set up a conflict between the mother and the fetus, and that's an area that always concerns us," said Janet Crepps, a staff lawyer at the Center for Reproductive Law and Policy in New York. "Any time you have one standard in a criminal area and another in the abortion area, you can be creating confusion about what's legal and illegal."

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/20/us/whe...urder.html

Evidently I am not the only one who finds the Court's decisions with regard to fetal personhood and Constitutional Protection contradictory with regard to allowing abortion and prosecuting crimes involving fetal death.

Note that the speaker is a lawyer for the Center for Reproductive Law and Policy in New York.
04-18-2015 09:30 AM
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TStatebobcat Offline
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Post: #78
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 08:31 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(04-18-2015 06:24 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Still have a hard time reconciling how hispanics can, for the most part, be so pro dem when the dem abortion stance is the direct opposite of hispanic beliefs. I guess one issue trumps the other?

The Democrats branded themselves the anti-white party long ago. That trumps all other issues for minorities. Things like abortion, the economy, etc. are lower on the totem pole.

Yup. Nailed it. What's ironic is that most minorities tend to be very socially conservative. Republicans can really make some great inroads with minorities if they ever change their rhetoric just a little bit.
04-18-2015 10:23 AM
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Post: #79
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 10:23 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  
(04-18-2015 08:31 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(04-18-2015 06:24 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Still have a hard time reconciling how hispanics can, for the most part, be so pro dem when the dem abortion stance is the direct opposite of hispanic beliefs. I guess one issue trumps the other?

The Democrats branded themselves the anti-white party long ago. That trumps all other issues for minorities. Things like abortion, the economy, etc. are lower on the totem pole.

Yup. Nailed it. What's ironic is that most minorities tend to be very socially conservative. Republicans can really make some great inroads with minorities if they ever change their rhetoric just a little bit.

Why is it bad rhetoric to push for Voter ID, Secure Our Border to at least Know Whom and Where from the ones crossing daily are. You just can't let Criminals, Drug Dealers, Gangs and whatever have an open revolving door just because They are Latino, Haitian, Arabic, White, Black or from any other Race or Country . Would You wan't a stranger working on Your home that might have a strong Criminal past but is an Undocumented Alien thus No One knowing about it.There needs to be screening and background checks. Most Americans born here do have a paper trail for any verification if Need. Illegals, Slim to None. This should Never be seen as Bad Rhetoric.
04-18-2015 10:45 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: DNC Chair: Aborting 7-Pound Babies Is “Personal Liberty”…
(04-18-2015 08:39 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(04-18-2015 02:25 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Wanna know how this looks from my POV?

You: What is the difference between a car accident and an abortion

Me: Um...One is a car accident, the other is an abortion...

or

You: Then tell us the difference oh, great sage. We are the ignorant masses, awaiting your vapid wit.

Me: Water is wet.


03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead03-banghead

So what you are saying is that whether or not a life is protected by law isn't contingent on the actual properties or developmental stage of a particular human life, but whether or not that life is wanted? Good to know. If that's the case, orphan's lives should not be protected by the law.

Seems like a very blatant contradiction to me. Pro-abortionists simply don't seem to like people pointing out obvious logical extensions of and contradictions within their beliefs. According to their view, the destruction of a wanted fetus should basically be a destruction of property charge. But let's not call it that. Wouldn't want to make pro-abortionists uncomfortable with their own beliefs.

1. Yes. It comes down to consent of the mother. Cons like yourself refuse to admit the fact that liberals have their particular stance on abortion because of choice of the mother not life. Liberals would absolutely be against a woman being forced to undergo an abortion that she doesn't want. That's the one fact that gets omitted while you guys chant your false rhetoric about liberals being "pro abortion."

2. There is something called childbirth, not sure if you have heard of it or not. If you haven't try Google. Just pointing this out because you seem to imply that there is no medical, scientific, or logical line that is currently being used to determine when a fetus becomes a person. There is, it's called child birth, and it is the most clear cut/universal event in the entire reproductive stage that answers this question.

3. No liberal that I know would ever compare taking a fetus from someone as taking property. You are living in a fantasy land with that comment. Just because people have different views about the role of gov't involvement in a medical decision, doesn't mean they don't know or don't care what a fetus is and what it ultimately becomes. So when it is taken away with or without the mothers consent, no one is going to compare it to a TV being stolen.

Your entire viewpoint is contingent on living in a false narrative about how the other side views the issue. You don't have to agree, or even understand the POV of your opposition, but at the very least you have to know it if you want to comment on it. So when you rely on your incorrect personal opinions as fact in a situation like this, I am not wrong to point out that you are a clueless idiot.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2015 10:12 PM by john01992.)
04-19-2015 09:44 PM
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