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Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
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Lou_C Offline
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Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
No single season makes or breaks a conference image, these things are formed over time. But this upcoming season is huge, and has a chance to be inordinately influential.

A big reason? FSU is going to struggle this year, at least by their recent standards. I think most objective FSU fans, while hoping for better, understand that 2-3 losses this year might be likely. Hopefully we're wrong, but this team has serious questions, will be extremely young, and has had horrible health this spring. This team is not going to carry the ACC banner into the playoffs.

Can anyone else make a title run, and make the playoffs? Clemson and GT seem the most likely candidates, but they aren't showing up in anyone's early top 10. Is Miami ready to make a huge jump? Can Duke take another step?

If FSU wins the ACC with 3 losses, obviously I'll be glad, but that's going to be quite the reinforcement of the ACC's image, and look like the 2000s all over again. But if the conference can somehow land someone else in the playoffs this year, it will be quite the game changer.

Realistically, I don't think anyone nationally really believes that any program in the ACC besides FSU can and will challenge for a national title again, but eventually, this conference needs it to happen.

In 2016 FSU should be absolutely loaded for bear again.
04-16-2015 09:10 AM
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nole Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
Often see confusion on 'carrying' the conference. Some confuse winning the conference title as 'carrying' the league....which isn't carrying the league...somebody HAS to win the title. As you note....the key is somebody getting in the playoff.

Clemson has a great shot I think. They have the QB to do it.


Funny though......I thought the logic from the ACC was if FSU doesn't carry things every year....it is an FSU fail.
04-16-2015 09:46 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
If you believe in the "shotgun" approach, this season gives the ACC a number of potential playoff candidates based on OOC schedule:

Clemson plays Notre Dame and South Carolina
Ga Tech plays Notre Dame and Georgia
Louisville plays Auburn and Kentucky (tbd)
Miami plays Nebraska and Cincinnati (tbd)
UNC plays South Carolina and Illinois (tbd)
Pitt plays Iowa and Notre Dame
Va Tech plays Ohio State and Purdue
Virginia plays UCLA, Notre Dame AND Boise State (11-1 might get them in)

My point is that several teams have good enough SoS to get in, IF one of them goes 12-0 (or MAYBE 11-1 with a close "quality" loss)

Even Syracuse plays LSU, Duke plays Northwestern, an Wake plays Indiana and Notre Dame... so if any of those should go undefeated they have a shot... 03-lmfao
04-16-2015 10:55 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 10:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you believe in the "shotgun" approach, this season gives the ACC a number of potential playoff candidates based on OOC schedule:

Clemson plays Notre Dame and South Carolina
Ga Tech plays Notre Dame and Georgia
Louisville plays Auburn and Kentucky (tbd)
Miami plays Nebraska and Cincinnati (tbd)
UNC plays South Carolina and Illinois (tbd)
Pitt plays Iowa and Notre Dame
Va Tech plays Ohio State and Purdue
Virginia plays UCLA, Notre Dame AND Boise State (11-1 might get them in)

My point is that several teams have good enough SoS to get in, IF one of them goes 12-0 (or MAYBE 11-1 with a close "quality" loss)

Even Syracuse plays LSU, Duke plays Northwestern, an Wake plays Indiana and Notre Dame... so if any of those should go undefeated they have a shot... 03-lmfao

Lots of ND in that ACC OOC SOS.
04-16-2015 11:36 AM
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Lou_C Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 10:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If you believe in the "shotgun" approach, this season gives the ACC a number of potential playoff candidates based on OOC schedule:

Clemson plays Notre Dame and South Carolina
Ga Tech plays Notre Dame and Georgia
Louisville plays Auburn and Kentucky (tbd)
Miami plays Nebraska and Cincinnati (tbd)
UNC plays South Carolina and Illinois (tbd)
Pitt plays Iowa and Notre Dame
Va Tech plays Ohio State and Purdue
Virginia plays UCLA, Notre Dame AND Boise State (11-1 might get them in)

My point is that several teams have good enough SoS to get in, IF one of them goes 12-0 (or MAYBE 11-1 with a close "quality" loss)

Even Syracuse plays LSU, Duke plays Northwestern, an Wake plays Indiana and Notre Dame... so if any of those should go undefeated they have a shot... 03-lmfao

I actually think that 12-1 could get an ACC team in, as long as FSU is still pretty good and doesn't collapse to 5 losses or something. FSU's schedule gets criticized sometimes, but they don't get to play FSU.

Right now the Big 12 looks like a meat grinder, but teams like TCU and Baylor get a bump for beating Oklahoma and Texas. When one of those schools gets back and starts stomping Baylor and TCU into mudholes like they should be, the Big 12 will look at least as bad.

But we need someone in the ACC to play the Baylor, TCU or Oklahoma State role. But I think a Clemson team that beats ND, FSU, USC, Louisville, loses a close one to a GT, and avenges the loss in the ACC title game is going to be in excellent position, as long as FSU and GT are still pretty good, and especially if they win their rivalry games.

I know FSU was dangerously close to being out last year had they been 12-1, but I just don't buy that it's predictive.

Definitely important to get good starts...look how good GT was last year, and how long it took anyone to notice.
04-16-2015 02:10 PM
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Dasville Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
FSU, Clemson, GT and UofL should all be ranked preseason.
04-16-2015 02:37 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there. Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.
04-16-2015 03:14 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 03:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there.

Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.

Apathy?

UNC invested a ton of cash and cheated like hell to keep num-nuts eligible and still could not get back to what Mack Brown had in the late 90's. Money and a willingness to do anything was not the issue.

NC State is still just 5 years into a recommitment to football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades. NC State fired a moribund football coach in 2012 who was not recruiting despite a winning record - that's not apathy

Clemson has never been a basketball school and never will be - recruiting basketball players to rural cow colleges is never easy. Recruiting basketball players to STEMS in general is not easy. That's not apathy, just reality.

VT has not retained Beamer due to apathy, nor did FSU retain Bowden too long due to apathy.

Miami football is the real conference stinker today. NC State basketball had been the real stinker in the ACC until the last few years.
04-16-2015 05:29 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 05:29 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 03:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there.

Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.

Apathy?

UNC invested a ton of cash and cheated like hell to keep num-nuts eligible and still could not get back to what Mack Brown had in the late 90's. Money and a willingness to do anything was not the issue.

NC State is still just 5 years into a recommitment to football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades. NC State fired a moribund football coach in 2012 who was not recruiting despite a winning record - that's not apathy

Clemson has never been a basketball school and never will be - recruiting basketball players to rural cow colleges is never easy. Recruiting basketball players to STEMS in general is not easy. That's not apathy, just reality.

VT has not retained Beamer due to apathy, nor did FSU retain Bowden too long due to apathy.

Miami football is the real conference stinker today. NC State basketball had been the real stinker in the ACC until the last few years.

* We agree on Miami and NCSU bball.
* You're wrong about VT and FSU for that matter. If VT *had* to win, Beamer would be out right now. Retaining a legend is a luxury.
* Nobody (but you) said anything about Clemson being a basketball school. I said "learn how to play basketball." As of right now, and as far as I can tell all of time, Clemson unashamedly doesn't even pretend to care about basketball. One poster on this forum even takes pride in it. There's a difference between at least pretending to care and being Duke/UNC/Kansas/Kentucky or however you define basketball school.
*"[NCSU] football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades." Apathy - lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern. Sure, big bad UNC threw around its weight and political power, but after a while the excuses have to end. NCSU basketball is nationally irrelevant and Pack football is as bad as Syracuse, and we are a shining example of apathy in weird ball.
*"UNC invested a ton of cash..." tell that to their assistant coaches. A school with UNC's resources and location *should* be able to attract a steady stream of top-tier coaching talent throughout the staff. That hasn't consistently happened in CH.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2015 07:00 PM by nzmorange.)
04-16-2015 06:58 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 06:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 05:29 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 03:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there.

Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.

Apathy?

UNC invested a ton of cash and cheated like hell to keep num-nuts eligible and still could not get back to what Mack Brown had in the late 90's. Money and a willingness to do anything was not the issue.

NC State is still just 5 years into a recommitment to football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades. NC State fired a moribund football coach in 2012 who was not recruiting despite a winning record - that's not apathy

Clemson has never been a basketball school and never will be - recruiting basketball players to rural cow colleges is never easy. Recruiting basketball players to STEMS in general is not easy. That's not apathy, just reality.

VT has not retained Beamer due to apathy, nor did FSU retain Bowden too long due to apathy.

Miami football is the real conference stinker today. NC State basketball had been the real stinker in the ACC until the last few years.

* We agree on Miami and NCSU bball.
* You're wrong about VT and FSU for that matter. If VT *had* to win, Beamer would be out right now. Retaining a legend is a luxury.
* Nobody (but you) said anything about Clemson being a basketball school. I said "learn how to play basketball." As of right now, and as far as I can tell all of time, Clemson unashamedly doesn't even pretend to care about basketball. One poster on this forum even takes pride in it. There's a difference between at least pretending to care and being Duke/UNC/Kansas/Kentucky or however you define basketball school.
*"[NCSU] football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades." Apathy - lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern. Sure, big bad UNC threw around its weight and political power, but after a while the excuses have to end. NCSU basketball is nationally irrelevant and Pack football is as bad as Syracuse, and we are a shining example of apathy in weird ball.
*"UNC invested a ton of cash..." tell that to their assistant coaches. A school with UNC's resources and location *should* be able to attract a steady stream of top-tier coaching talent throughout the staff. That hasn't consistently happened in CH.

Evidently we know how to play basketball as we have finished middle of the pack in the ACC four out of the past five and nine out of the last ten seasons. I could understand your theme if we were a perennial bottom dweller, but we aren't thus your narrative is false.
04-16-2015 07:08 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 07:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 06:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 05:29 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 03:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there.

Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.

Apathy?

UNC invested a ton of cash and cheated like hell to keep num-nuts eligible and still could not get back to what Mack Brown had in the late 90's. Money and a willingness to do anything was not the issue.

NC State is still just 5 years into a recommitment to football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades. NC State fired a moribund football coach in 2012 who was not recruiting despite a winning record - that's not apathy

Clemson has never been a basketball school and never will be - recruiting basketball players to rural cow colleges is never easy. Recruiting basketball players to STEMS in general is not easy. That's not apathy, just reality.

VT has not retained Beamer due to apathy, nor did FSU retain Bowden too long due to apathy.

Miami football is the real conference stinker today. NC State basketball had been the real stinker in the ACC until the last few years.

* We agree on Miami and NCSU bball.
* You're wrong about VT and FSU for that matter. If VT *had* to win, Beamer would be out right now. Retaining a legend is a luxury.
* Nobody (but you) said anything about Clemson being a basketball school. I said "learn how to play basketball." As of right now, and as far as I can tell all of time, Clemson unashamedly doesn't even pretend to care about basketball. One poster on this forum even takes pride in it. There's a difference between at least pretending to care and being Duke/UNC/Kansas/Kentucky or however you define basketball school.
*"[NCSU] football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades." Apathy - lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern. Sure, big bad UNC threw around its weight and political power, but after a while the excuses have to end. NCSU basketball is nationally irrelevant and Pack football is as bad as Syracuse, and we are a shining example of apathy in weird ball.
*"UNC invested a ton of cash..." tell that to their assistant coaches. A school with UNC's resources and location *should* be able to attract a steady stream of top-tier coaching talent throughout the staff. That hasn't consistently happened in CH.

Evidently we know how to play basketball as we have finished middle of the pack in the ACC four out of the past five and nine out of the last ten seasons. I could understand your theme if we were a perennial bottom dweller, but we aren't thus your narrative is false.

Your total of 11 tourney appearances and 1 elite eight trip agree with me.
Or, if you would rather, your single conference championship (pre-WWII) also agrees with me.

Pretending like the ACC wasn't ridiculously top-heavy prior to the 2nd raid is a little much.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2015 07:14 PM by nzmorange.)
04-16-2015 07:12 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
The one team which acts like it's afraid for the ACC to fail is Duke. They have improved dramatically in football, both on and off the field.

I like the moves I've seen at BC and Pitt, but it remains to be seen how good they will become. VT is making every effort to send Beamer out on top, IMO. GT eased up on football a little and were rewarded with wins over UGa and Miss. State. There ARE signs. Trouble is, just about everybody is competing harder these days.
04-16-2015 09:13 PM
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 07:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 07:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 06:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 05:29 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 03:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Maybe it shouldn't be as follows, but I think it is: the Big XII had a rejuvenation because all the nobody teams TT, OSU, TCU, Baylor, etc. found themselves in a situation where they had to win to survive. They were playing (and paying) for what essentially amounts to their school's athletic existence - or at least its relevance. If the Big XII did fall, which would have happened had they not gotten their act together, they would be left hanging. This trend coincided (and possibly caused) a downturn for the Big XII's elite (UT and OU), which is further inflating rankings. Nobody wants to admit the possibility of OU/UT being bad, so anyone beating them (i.e. TCU and Baylor) must be great, right?

The ACC doesn't have that problem and never *really* did. I know there was some grumbling about FSU and Clemson going to the Big XII and (insert school here) going to the B1G, and I know that at least one FSU BoT member made some statements indicating that he was receptive to a move, but I don't think that any of that was ever going to happen. As such, there was never really any real pressure for (insert school here) to live up to its potential. I think that if a substantial portion of the ACC was ever in a do or die situation, big investments would be made, and suddenly UNC would be winning, Miami would be the []_[], Syracuse and BC would revert to the 90's, Pitt would start holding on to coaches, NCSU would get good at something, GT would get a grip on reality, VT would find a replacement for Beamer, Clemson would learn to play basketball, etc., and we would have a murder's row conference. The potential is there.

Unfortunately, so is the apathy under the current system.

Apathy?

UNC invested a ton of cash and cheated like hell to keep num-nuts eligible and still could not get back to what Mack Brown had in the late 90's. Money and a willingness to do anything was not the issue.

NC State is still just 5 years into a recommitment to football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades. NC State fired a moribund football coach in 2012 who was not recruiting despite a winning record - that's not apathy

Clemson has never been a basketball school and never will be - recruiting basketball players to rural cow colleges is never easy. Recruiting basketball players to STEMS in general is not easy. That's not apathy, just reality.

VT has not retained Beamer due to apathy, nor did FSU retain Bowden too long due to apathy.

Miami football is the real conference stinker today. NC State basketball had been the real stinker in the ACC until the last few years.

* We agree on Miami and NCSU bball.
* You're wrong about VT and FSU for that matter. If VT *had* to win, Beamer would be out right now. Retaining a legend is a luxury.
* Nobody (but you) said anything about Clemson being a basketball school. I said "learn how to play basketball." As of right now, and as far as I can tell all of time, Clemson unashamedly doesn't even pretend to care about basketball. One poster on this forum even takes pride in it. There's a difference between at least pretending to care and being Duke/UNC/Kansas/Kentucky or however you define basketball school.
*"[NCSU] football and basketball that was gutted in 1991 and stayed gutted for two decades." Apathy - lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern. Sure, big bad UNC threw around its weight and political power, but after a while the excuses have to end. NCSU basketball is nationally irrelevant and Pack football is as bad as Syracuse, and we are a shining example of apathy in weird ball.
*"UNC invested a ton of cash..." tell that to their assistant coaches. A school with UNC's resources and location *should* be able to attract a steady stream of top-tier coaching talent throughout the staff. That hasn't consistently happened in CH.

Evidently we know how to play basketball as we have finished middle of the pack in the ACC four out of the past five and nine out of the last ten seasons. I could understand your theme if we were a perennial bottom dweller, but we aren't thus your narrative is false.

Your total of 11 tourney appearances and 1 elite eight trip agree with me.
Or, if you would rather, your single conference championship (pre-WWII) also agrees with me.

Pretending like the ACC wasn't ridiculously top-heavy prior to the 2nd raid is a little much.

Yet we still finished in the middle of the pack in the conference nine out of ten years.

Clemson faces a whole litany of obstacles to perennially improve in basketball:

We are a STEM school in a rural area, not exactly a prime draw for basketball prospects.

We reside in a state that what little quality basketball talent it does produce usually can't get in Clemson academically, and the traditionally prime basketball talent producing area of the state is Columbia and Richland County, especially the inner-city schools. This is a double curse because of the relationship that South Carolina typically has with local basketball coaches (many having former coot players on staff) and because those are some of the lowest performing schools in the state outside of the I95 corridor. For example SC's best prospect this year P.J. Dozier from Spring Valley played for his dad, a coot player. One of his dad's assistants is a former coot director of player development under the former coach. Another of this year's top players plays a Dreher, a Columbia area school, and played AAU ball for a former coot player. Next year's top prospect Seventh Woods plays at Columbia's Hammond Academy and in AAU for the Carolina Wolves....coached by Columbia area HS coach Daryl Jarvis. This is the uphill battle we face in recruiting in our own state.

Our fanbase is spread throughout the state and making a three hour one way trip for a two hour basketball game isn't going to happen very often and not at all during the week. Unlike football where seven times, eight if you count the spring game, is an event there are too many basketball games for that to happen.
04-16-2015 10:01 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 09:13 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The one team which acts like it's afraid for the ACC to fail is Duke. They have improved dramatically in football, both on and off the field.

I like the moves I've seen at BC and Pitt, but it remains to be seen how good they will become. VT is making every effort to send Beamer out on top, IMO. GT eased up on football a little and were rewarded with wins over UGa and Miss. State. There ARE signs. Trouble is, just about everybody is competing harder these days.

Wake football looked alive for a while. Their ceiling is just too low to move any major needles.
04-17-2015 12:25 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 10:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Yet we still finished in the middle of the pack in the conference nine out of ten years.

Clemson faces a whole litany of obstacles to perennially improve in basketball:

We are a STEM school in a rural area, not exactly a prime draw for basketball prospects.

We reside in a state that what little quality basketball talent it does produce usually can't get in Clemson academically, and the traditionally prime basketball talent producing area of the state is Columbia and Richland County, especially the inner-city schools. This is a double curse because of the relationship that South Carolina typically has with local basketball coaches (many having former coot players on staff) and because those are some of the lowest performing schools in the state outside of the I95 corridor. For example SC's best prospect this year P.J. Dozier from Spring Valley played for his dad, a coot player. One of his dad's assistants is a former coot director of player development under the former coach. Another of this year's top players plays a Dreher, a Columbia area school, and played AAU ball for a former coot player. Next year's top prospect Seventh Woods plays at Columbia's Hammond Academy and in AAU for the Carolina Wolves....coached by Columbia area HS coach Daryl Jarvis. This is the uphill battle we face in recruiting in our own state.

Our fanbase is spread throughout the state and making a three hour one way trip for a two hour basketball game isn't going to happen very often and not at all during the week. Unlike football where seven times, eight if you count the spring game, is an event there are too many basketball games for that to happen.

"Yet we still finished in the middle of the pack in the conference nine out of ten years." Great. Do you want an attendance star? The ACC was top-heavy for virtually all of those years. Finishing in the middle is like finishing in the middle of the SEC. There's a reason Clemson hasn't done jack in the tourney (ACC or NCAA).

"We reside in a state that what little quality basketball talent it does produce..." There are so many examples that point against this logic, it's ridiculous. The vast majority of the Pac recruits heavily out of Cali, OU and Nebraska recruited heavily out of Texas, PSU and ND recruit heavily out of NJ, Clemson football recruits heavily out of NC (as well as SC), and the list goes on. I get that Clemson is fighting an uphill battle, but that's no excuse to throw your hands up and give up. Anyway, I have no idea why you are arguing the point. You yourself have claimed that "Clemson doesn't care about basketball" many times.

Also, I think that Clemson being a "STEM school" is outside the scope of the discussion but, although you do have an emphasis on hard sciences and engineering, ~33% of students are in the College of Arts, Architecture, and Humanities and the College of Business and Behavioral Sciences. You aren't GT. There are options for basketball players.

"Our fanbase is spread throughout the state and making a three hour one way trip for a two hour basketball game isn't going to happen very often and not at all during the week." I agree. Clemson doesn't care about basketball. Syracuse fans do it, so it can be done. You guys don't because you have different priorities (football and then baseball as a distant 2nd). However, if your existence was on the line, I have a very hard time believing that there wouldn't be a push for a UL model of taking both sports seriously. It worked wonders for us when we did it (look at old revenue rankings) and it will probably work wonders for Duke in the future. You guys don't because there is no need and it takes a lot of effort, dedication, and will.

If it's any consolation, I think that SU got apathetic in football. We're no less guilty than you. However, like in Clemson's case, if the school felt that SU's athletic future was on the line, I have no doubt that we would pull a Baylor.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 12:48 AM by nzmorange.)
04-17-2015 12:43 AM
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
You heard it here first: The GT defensive line could be the best in the ACC hands down next year.

Jahi Word-Daniels may return FINALLY from academic ineligibility. Per Paul Johnson, nobody can block him on the GT OL. Add to that ACC defensive FOTY Freeman. Add to that the veteran Aussie Gotsis. Add to that Whitehead the transfer from NCST who was projected to start last season. Add to that McNair and Rook who became respectable at the end of last season. In the LB and Secondary ... White and Davis who really came on strong all season should become All-ACC players this year. This may be the first PROPER defense Paul Johnson has had to work with at GT. Not since the leftover artifacts of Tenuta in '08 has GT had a defense work a flying fornication under PJ. That should now change.

In general ..... there is an awful lot coming back for GT. They'll need to find a reliable fumble free B-Back. And a couple of WRs. But per the WR coach, there was a lot of good WR talent hidden last year by Smelter and Waller. The only other question to answer is will they still be hungry?

OH PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE can we beat UGAg at home this year? They haven't beaten the retards at home since Joe Hamilton was the QB. COME THE **** ON.
04-17-2015 12:48 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-16-2015 02:10 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Definitely important to get good starts...look how good GT was last year, and how long it took anyone to notice.

That's because they weren't really good until after the Pitt game when the defense stopped clocking out for a quarter or a half each game.
04-17-2015 12:49 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
If GT beats UGa in back-to-back years that would be HUGE!

Of course I'm hoping for back-to-back VT wins over Ohio State ;-)
04-17-2015 08:25 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-17-2015 08:25 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If GT beats UGa in back-to-back years that would be HUGE!

Of course I'm hoping for back-to-back VT wins over Ohio State ;-)


That would not exactly make me cry, Hokie Mark.....
04-17-2015 08:27 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Pivotal season for ACC football in 2015
(04-17-2015 08:27 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-17-2015 08:25 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If GT beats UGa in back-to-back years that would be HUGE!

Of course I'm hoping for back-to-back VT wins over Ohio State ;-)


That would not exactly make me cry, Hokie Mark.....

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure....

Terry, we all know you're a big softie.
[Image: tumblr_m50vj0S7FT1qiw26m.gif]
^from the Terrycam^
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 08:56 AM by nzmorange.)
04-17-2015 08:54 AM
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