DrTorch
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US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-17-2015 11:46 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:11 PM)BeliefBlazer Wrote: Wives are not pieces of property owned by their husbands. If she had no idea who the man was on top of her, it was rape.
If she consented, it was not rape, married or not. She doesn't lose the right to consent in a present situation just because she has Alzhiemers. That is a horrible notion.
At some point, does the person lose the ability to consent?
This is the question. It is not as black and white as the righties are making it here. Marriage is not wholesale, for life consent.
Actually that's exactly what it is. It would seem people aren't actually paying attention, but just making **** up.
As for all the scary scenarios that people are putting out there, none of that happened.
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04-18-2015 01:40 PM |
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UCF08
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-18-2015 01:40 PM)DrTorch Wrote: (04-17-2015 11:46 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:11 PM)BeliefBlazer Wrote: Wives are not pieces of property owned by their husbands. If she had no idea who the man was on top of her, it was rape.
If she consented, it was not rape, married or not. She doesn't lose the right to consent in a present situation just because she has Alzhiemers. That is a horrible notion.
At some point, does the person lose the ability to consent?
This is the question. It is not as black and white as the righties are making it here. Marriage is not wholesale, for life consent.
Actually that's exactly what it is. It would seem people aren't actually paying attention, but just making **** up.
As for all the scary scenarios that people are putting out there, none of that happened.
Marriage is not a guarantee of consent for life, you're just wrong. Morally, legally, in all forms you're wrong.
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04-18-2015 01:45 PM |
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DrTorch
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
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US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-18-2015 01:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-18-2015 01:40 PM)DrTorch Wrote: (04-17-2015 11:46 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote: If she consented, it was not rape, married or not. She doesn't lose the right to consent in a present situation just because she has Alzhiemers. That is a horrible notion.
At some point, does the person lose the ability to consent?
This is the question. It is not as black and white as the righties are making it here. Marriage is not wholesale, for life consent.
Actually that's exactly what it is. It would seem people aren't actually paying attention, but just making **** up.
As for all the scary scenarios that people are putting out there, none of that happened.
Marriage is not a guarantee of consent for life, you're just wrong. Morally, legally, in all forms you're wrong.
Morally? Who are you to speak to morals? Morals to you are just opinions, so you have no standing in that sort of argument.
Legally? Only for thousands of years, including English and US common law. But hey, you don't know history, why am I not surprised. You have yet to demonstrate knowledge on any subject.
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04-18-2015 03:24 PM |
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UCF08
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-18-2015 03:24 PM)DrTorch Wrote: (04-18-2015 01:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-18-2015 01:40 PM)DrTorch Wrote: (04-17-2015 11:46 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote: (04-16-2015 07:24 PM)UCF08 Wrote: At some point, does the person lose the ability to consent?
This is the question. It is not as black and white as the righties are making it here. Marriage is not wholesale, for life consent.
Actually that's exactly what it is. It would seem people aren't actually paying attention, but just making **** up.
As for all the scary scenarios that people are putting out there, none of that happened.
Marriage is not a guarantee of consent for life, you're just wrong. Morally, legally, in all forms you're wrong.
Morally? Who are you to speak to morals? Morals to you are just opinions, so you have no standing in that sort of argument.
Legally? Only for thousands of years, including English and US common law. But hey, you don't know history, why am I not surprised. You have yet to demonstrate knowledge on any subject.
I have as much of a right to comment on morality as anyone else does, and in this case, I'm on point. I suspect that is why you're not willing to actually discuss that portion of my claim and instead chose to make a nonsensical ad hominem attack rather that address my actual claim. I understand it's easier for you to do that than to mount a moralistic counterpoint to 'a married man should not legally protected from rape, simply if the woman who was forced to have sex was his wife', but it is wholly transparent.
As for the US history and common law on the matter, yeah everyone knows that, but ignoring current the legality, slavery, sexism, spousal and child abuse fit that bill. Fortunately, we're talking about now, and since 1993, every state has made marital rape illegal or had the state court overturn their laws allowing it.
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04-18-2015 04:07 PM |
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UofMstateU
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
You liberals really have a hard time staying out of married peoples bedrooms.
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04-18-2015 10:27 PM |
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Fo Shizzle
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-18-2015 01:15 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-17-2015 10:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Leave these adults alone. They joined in a contract when they wed.....for better or worse. It is none of anyones fcking business.
Would you say the same thing if it was your mother sharing her room, possibly hearing her scream in terror? I don't know if that happened, but anyone who has worked with Alzheimer's in any amount knows how quickly they can become utterly terrified and frightened.
You're assuming this woman by all accounts enjoyed herself and showed no signs of fear or pain, that this was a moment of clarity for her. That might be the case, but it might not. I know this article certainly doesn't give us enough information, but the argument that 'they joined into a contract' in no way shape or form implies that a woman or man forgoes their right to deny their partner intercourse. Nor does it imply that either party consents to sex after debilitating mental decline.
The answer is...No...but...that is not the scenario this situation addresses.
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04-19-2015 02:39 PM |
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UCF08
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-19-2015 02:39 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: (04-18-2015 01:15 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-17-2015 10:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Leave these adults alone. They joined in a contract when they wed.....for better or worse. It is none of anyones fcking business.
Would you say the same thing if it was your mother sharing her room, possibly hearing her scream in terror? I don't know if that happened, but anyone who has worked with Alzheimer's in any amount knows how quickly they can become utterly terrified and frightened.
You're assuming this woman by all accounts enjoyed herself and showed no signs of fear or pain, that this was a moment of clarity for her. That might be the case, but it might not. I know this article certainly doesn't give us enough information, but the argument that 'they joined into a contract' in no way shape or form implies that a woman or man forgoes their right to deny their partner intercourse. Nor does it imply that either party consents to sex after debilitating mental decline.
The answer is...No...but...that is not the scenario this situation addresses.
I don't remember the article making it exceedingly clear what happened, but even so, if those were the facts I can admit they'd likely make the headline. In the end, this is a very unusual subject that, unfortunately, brings out some very old and indefensible opinions that some conservatives have on here. I mean, we're not in the stone age anymore, do people really believe that marriage implies that consent just 'disappears' as a requirement for sex?
Not aimed at you of course, just stream of consciousness.
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04-19-2015 08:34 PM |
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UofMstateU
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
(04-19-2015 08:34 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-19-2015 02:39 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: (04-18-2015 01:15 PM)UCF08 Wrote: (04-17-2015 10:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: Leave these adults alone. They joined in a contract when they wed.....for better or worse. It is none of anyones fcking business.
Would you say the same thing if it was your mother sharing her room, possibly hearing her scream in terror? I don't know if that happened, but anyone who has worked with Alzheimer's in any amount knows how quickly they can become utterly terrified and frightened.
You're assuming this woman by all accounts enjoyed herself and showed no signs of fear or pain, that this was a moment of clarity for her. That might be the case, but it might not. I know this article certainly doesn't give us enough information, but the argument that 'they joined into a contract' in no way shape or form implies that a woman or man forgoes their right to deny their partner intercourse. Nor does it imply that either party consents to sex after debilitating mental decline.
The answer is...No...but...that is not the scenario this situation addresses.
I don't remember the article making it exceedingly clear what happened, but even so, if those were the facts I can admit they'd likely make the headline. In the end, this is a very unusual subject that, unfortunately, brings out some very old and indefensible opinions that some conservatives have on here. I mean, we're not in the stone age anymore, do people really believe that marriage implies that consent just 'disappears' as a requirement for sex?
Not aimed at you of course, just stream of consciousness.
Here's the part you dont get; There is no evidence that she was unable to consent at that moment. None. She is now dead, so there will be no way to determine that. None. Given that there is no evidence of her state at the time, that the woman was not screaming, and after being examined, was found un-abused, remind me again why you are all up in arms about this?
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04-19-2015 11:02 PM |
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UCF08
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RE: US court to decide if Alzheimer's patient was able to consent to sex
I never said I was up in arms over this specific case, in fact my post would heavily imply that I'm not really concerned about this specific case.
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04-19-2015 11:21 PM |
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