(04-13-2015 11:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 10:14 PM)T-Dog Wrote:  At the end of the day, I think the best thing for Liberty is to petition the NCAA to move up in football as independent and have their non-football try to join the A-10. They have the resources and ability to be FBS and a special enough case to be granted a one-time waiver. The A-10 is mostly private, religious schools anyway.

My God, Liberty to the Atlantic 10....I don't even know where to start.

Half of the A-10 is non-religious (or affiliated with denominations that affirm same sex marriage). One school might even have a non-Christian majority in its US sourced student body. Two are the flagship institutions of the most liberal states in the US. All of them would vote no. Emphatically.

The other half are Catholic schools. One of them has a history of publicly telling their Archbishop to butt out of their athletic department's decision making process. Most of them aren't going to upset half or more of their alumni bases to take Liberty. Two of those schools are in on very thin ice with the conference. Two of them are state schools located very close to LU (both of them would be no votes). A third came very close to getting ejected from the conference this decade (it wasn't Fordham or Duquesne by the way).

I'm at a loss to figure out who would even dare to propose adding them....

All of the schools would probably take a very dim view of LU's online based business model.

Every A-10 team will be paying FCOA.

Or you could just point out that their basketball team has no chance of being in the A10 because of its lack of competitiveness.

(04-14-2015 12:59 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 11:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 10:14 PM)T-Dog Wrote:  At the end of the day, I think the best thing for Liberty is to petition the NCAA to move up in football as independent and have their non-football try to join the A-10. They have the resources and ability to be FBS and a special enough case to be granted a one-time waiver. The A-10 is mostly private, religious schools anyway.

My God, Liberty to the Atlantic 10....I don't even know where to start.

Half of the A-10 is non-religious (or affiliated with denominations that affirm same sex marriage). One school might even have a non-Christian majority in its US sourced student body. Two are the flagship institutions of the most liberal states in the US. All of them would vote no. Emphatically.

The other half are Catholic schools. One of them has a history of publicly telling their Archbishop to butt out of their athletic department's decision making process. Most of them aren't going to upset half or more of their alumni bases to take Liberty. Two of those schools are in on very thin ice with the conference. Two of them are state schools located very close to LU (both of them would be no votes). A third came very close to getting ejected from the conference this decade (it wasn't Fordham or Duquesne by the way).

I'm at a loss to figure out who would even dare to propose adding them....

All of the schools would probably take a very dim view of LU's online based business model.

Every A-10 team will be paying FCOA.

Or you could just point out that their basketball team has no chance of being in the A10 because of its lack of competitiveness.

Oh, there's that too. Even if they were any good, the A-10 doesn't need another team in Virginia/DC (the conference already has four teams there).

The big question here is will JMU follow?

(04-13-2015 10:50 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  One thing Liberty may accidentally do here is tick off most of the Big South. I doubt many in that league can pay COA, giving the flames a SIGNIFICANT recruiting advantage over their peers.

I don't know why members of the Big South would have issues if that conference has a position similar to the Southland Conference. With the Southland, any program can pay COA, but it is not a requirement for any program to do it. I'm assuming, the Southland position was pre-approved by the membership.

To my knowledge, none of the Southland programs have announced paying COA yet.

Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

(04-14-2015 06:35 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The big question here is will JMU follow?

Well if JMU ever wants to be FBS, they better pull their noses out of the air quickly. Thanks to championship deregulation, we no longer need them to reach 12, but they need us if they ever want to be an FBS team. The door is closing fast, and they don't hold any cards anymore.

The Horizon League just voted for full cost of attendance as well......

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

What do you base that on? LU FB recruiting is pulling in big recruits from TX, FL, SC, GA, etc already. Not a problem.

StAtes AD brought up the recruiting issue in an interview last year. I think it's unfounded as last year we signed our best class ever. Kids that choose Liberty over FBS offers. Now that were providing COA recruiting will only get better.

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(04-14-2015 06:35 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The big question here is will JMU follow?

no, we won't in FCS. The CAA won't allow it's members to provide FCOA.

(04-14-2015 08:01 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  StAtes AD brought up the recruiting issue in an interview last year. I think it's unfounded as last year we signed our best class ever. Kids that choose Liberty over FBS offers. Now that were providing COA recruiting will only get better.

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That "best class ever" is just about all anyone ever says. And given Liberty's lack of championships/titles , I'd say that THAT isn't saying much. Just how much better?

I only have TWO concerns with adding Liberty:

1: CAN THEY STRENGTHEN OUR FOOTBALL POWER RANKING?
This is where Liberty's track record comes into play. Why the heck haven't they won more? Come on Flames, you've got to help yourselves here. If you can't be dominating in the FCS (especially now that App and GS are gone), how can you expect to compete in the Belt? GRANTED: You did beat App State last year, so I ponder the question???????

2: WILL YOU TAKE OUR COACHES IF YOU GET IN? I am concerned with the amount of $ on hand that you would be able to take any of our coaching staffs. We might have to put into our contracts something similar to what ArkSt has done, but in specific regards to leaving us for Liberty. Then again, maybe you can steal CUSA coaching staffs and weaken them? Now I wonder why you haven't used that "war chest" to take the coaching staffs and dominate where you are..... and that goes back to the first concern.

Bottom line is: WIN, WIN NOW - make yourself attractive as a POWER ADD. Then you will only have the political concerns. Of which I and many others have none! I have no concerns about your Academics either (although I'm aware of the the POB that do) - it really doesn't make much sense to me. It isn't like playing sports with/against another program has ANY effect on 1 program's courses, academics. IF it does, we should all just be trying to schedule VANDY and GT, or try and invite MIT up from D3 to the Belt! That would make us all smarter right? Makes no difference who lines up on the other side of the field or court, you are still who you are.

(04-14-2015 08:21 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 06:35 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The big question here is will JMU follow?

no, we won't in FCS. The CAA won't allow it's members to provide FCOA.

true, but they could make the announcement that they would provide it should they move up.

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

(04-14-2015 08:21 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 06:35 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The big question here is will JMU follow?

no, we won't in FCS. The CAA won't allow it's members to provide FCOA.

So, in a new FCS world where you are recruiting against programs who do offer FCOA - Do you see JMU slipping in the rankings/talent?

If so: Is that worth it to keep playing BBall with the CAA schools?
Will football attendance tank in that environment? Will revenues drop?

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

The thought process here does chase its own tail a bit.

The head scratcher is the question of how it hasn't translated to winning a lot at the FCS level.

Money will help you build facilities, but most of us have really nice facilities, so I'm not so concerned with your recruiting of players. I mean, Money can't buy you a past tradition of Winning - which imop, trumps $ on recruiting unless you are going to go SEC on us and pay your players (with cars, etc) under the table. And I'd hope your belief system holds you in check from actually cheating like that.

My concern on your $ stock pile is the ability to hire away our coaching staffs should any of them beat you over and over. "If you can't beat them, buy them" sort of thing. A well known coaching staff with a tradition of winning CAN give you a recruiting advantage.

For now, with the FCOA being offered - You should now have a recruiting advantage over a lot of FCS programs. With the right coaching staff, you should be able to dominate at that level. Let's see it! Go Flames! I wish you luck.

(04-14-2015 08:28 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:21 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 06:35 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The big question here is will JMU follow?

no, we won't in FCS. The CAA won't allow it's members to provide FCOA.

So, in a new FCS world where you are recruiting against program who do offer FCOA - Do you see JMU slipping in the rankings/talent?

If so: Is that worth it to keep playing BBall with the CAA schools?
Will football attendance tank in that environment? Will revenues drop?

Staying in the CAA and FCS is, without a doubt in my mind, a death sentence for JMU athletics. We got to where we are through growth, an amazing period on the CAA, and rivalries. CAA football is still good, but JMU has lost FCS peers to FBS. The CAA is now a low-major some years, and has a mix of privates and publics, small and large, football and non-football. It stretches from Boston to Charleston.

We used to have this regional conference.



Now we have this watered down and spread out version



So YES, JMU will slip in talent, attendance will drop, and revenues will dry out.

I am probably one of the biggest JMU fans around. Season tickets since I graduated in 2004 and in top 10% of the Duke Club donors. If I am having serious trouble justifying ticket renewals, then I can assure you many others are as well. Fans are simply exhausted with this damned topic, and tired of an administration that has dangled this carrot for going on 10 years now. Move up, and I'm back in and willing to double down. Stay FCS, and I'll grow further and further apart as my interest wanes.

(04-14-2015 08:36 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

The thought process here does chase its own tail a bit.

The head scratcher is the question of how it hasn't translated to winning a lot at the FCS level.

Money will help you build facilities, but most of us have really nice facilities, so I'm not so concerned with your recruiting of players. I mean, Money can't buy you a past tradition of Winning - which imop, trumps $ on recruiting unless you are going to go SEC on us and pay your players (with cars, etc) under the table. And I'd hope your belief system holds you in check from actually cheating like that.

My concern on your $ stock pile is the ability to hire away our coaching staffs should any of them beat you over and over. "If you can't beat them, buy them" sort of thing. A well known coaching staff with a tradition of winning CAN give you a recruiting advantage.

For now, with the FCOA being offered - You should now have a recruiting advantage over a lot of FCS programs. With the right coaching staff, you should be able to dominate at that level. Let's see it! Go Flames! I wish you luck.

For what it's worth, I can't remember Liberty ever buying a coach from a conference rival or a Sun Belt coach. I wouldn't expect them to hire away a current coach of a conference member. I could happen under a perfect storm of circumstances.

(04-14-2015 08:01 AM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  StAtes AD brought up the recruiting issue in an interview last year. I think it's unfounded as last year we signed our best class ever. Kids that choose Liberty over FBS offers. Now that were providing COA recruiting will only get better.

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I don't see recruiting as an issue. I just prefer similar public universities.

(04-14-2015 08:36 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 08:23 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(04-14-2015 07:05 AM)eagle9098 Wrote:  Even if the SB adds Liberty, I still think their problem is going to be recruiting.

First people don't want Liberty because they have too much money and will run over everyone. Now they won't be able to recruit. Pick an argument and stick to it. You end up just arguing with yourself.

The thought process here does chase its own tail a bit.

The head scratcher is the question of how it hasn't translated to winning a lot at the FCS level.

Money will help you build facilities, but most of us have really nice facilities, so I'm not so concerned with your recruiting of players. I mean, Money can't buy you a past tradition of Winning - which imop, trumps $ on recruiting unless you are going to go SEC on us and pay your players (with cars, etc) under the table. And I'd hope your belief system holds you in check from actually cheating like that.

My concern on your $ stock pile is the ability to hire away our coaching staffs should any of them beat you over and over. "If you can't beat them, buy them" sort of thing. A well known coaching staff with a tradition of winning CAN give you a recruiting advantage.

For now, with the FCOA being offered - You should now have a recruiting advantage over a lot of FCS programs. With the right coaching staff, you should be able to dominate at that level. Let's see it! Go Flames! I wish you luck.

I hear your concerns, However, Liberty could give (for example) 4x as much stipend pay to students, but those students still must agree to follow Liberty's code of conduct rules (all schools have them, but Liberty is different due to its belief system). The same applies to coaches as well.

For every "Liberty has a major recruiting advantage" statement that is made, you have to remember that Liberty is still a religious-based school. I really don't see it as a major advantage until other FCS schools do the same. If anything this shows that Liberty is serious about it athletics.

And that's a sound argument. An issue Liberty will have to overcome. Possibly be making concessions to cap spending at a certain amount.

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