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I am a little surprised at the light attitude on the board regarding drinking and driving. The problems with drinking and driving are numerous. And frankly, its not that hard to avoid combining drinking with driving. Drinking impairs judgment as well as motor skills, and the consequences are enormous. Worse than the financial cost are the chances that someone will be seriously hurt. I agree that texting and driving is dangerous. Very dangerous in fact. (Someone who is drunk, and texting while driving, is worse yet, and because drinking impairs judgment, a drunk person may decide to text too).

Most drunk drivers don't start the day or evening planning to drink and drive. But they likewise don't anticipate that once they start drinking, they might have one more than they should, which causes them to have one or two more on top of that, eventually becoming drunk, and then make the drunk decision to drive. Its a criminal offense which is unusual in that it lacks "Mens Rea", which is Latin for a guilty or evil mind, or a criminal intent.

I handle drunk driving cases every day. The defendants are frequently very good, decent, hard working citizens, who have no other type of criminal record, and who I am very sympathetic of. Even the multiple offender drunk drivers. But all of them make the same decision to put themselves in a situation where the scenario above plays out. If you are going to drink more than a beer or two, take the steps to arrange for a ride. Its not that hard; and if it is difficult under the circumstances, then don't drink.

Respect you greatly Brovol for being responsible to enforce DUI laws and applying penalties for the same. I drink very little, maybe a drink every couple weeks or so.

My point is the marked difference in treatment in sober vs. drinking drivers for the same situation.

Also marked sameness of treatment of drinking drivers regardless of infractions. So the mature caring daddy and mommy coming home from a wedding reception, yes they had a toast and a couple mixed drinks, daddy says "I'm fine" drives home carefully, gets pulled over for overly careful driving, gets a DUI, boom, $10,000 in the hole, never had a problem, no accident, nothing. Then it becomes, well he was irresponsible and something "could have" happened. Yeah. But that is true of sober drivers too. Something can always happen.

So the sober driver pulls out in front of the drinking driver causing a collision. The sober driver gets a ticket for running a stop sign. The drinking driver goes to hell for the next 5 years. But who caused the incident?

Just saying. I'm thinking of starting a group, Grandfathers Against Sober Driving. Check the statistics, most incidents are caused by sober drivers.

(04-15-2015 01:17 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Respect you greatly Brovol for being responsible to enforce DUI laws and applying penalties for the same. I drink very little, maybe a drink every couple weeks or so.

My point is the marked difference in treatment in sober vs. drinking drivers for the same situation.

Also marked sameness of treatment of drinking drivers regardless of infractions. So the mature caring daddy and mommy coming home from a wedding reception, yes they had a toast and a couple mixed drinks, daddy says "I'm fine" drives home carefully, gets pulled over for overly careful driving, gets a DUI, boom, $10,000 in the hole, never had a problem, no accident, nothing. Then it becomes, well he was irresponsible and something "could have" happened. Yeah. But that is true of sober drivers too. Something can always happen.

So the sober driver pulls out in front of the drinking driver causing a collision. The sober driver gets a ticket for running a stop sign. The drinking driver goes to hell for the next 5 years. But who caused the incident?

Just saying. I'm thinking of starting a group, Grandfathers Against Sober Driving. Check the statistics, most incidents are caused by sober drivers.

I understand what you are saying, and I don't really disagree. People make mistakes; sober and drunk. If the sole purpose of the law was to punish for the damage done by the wrongful act, then it shouldn't matter whether the person is drunk or sober. But another purpose of the law is to motivate people to do the right think. And we sometimes motivate with a stick. And while the penalties don't always cause everyone to do the right thing, in the years since there has been a strong movement against drunk driving, there has been more awareness of the consequences, and that has helped.

I have never found it difficult to avoid drinking and driving. I am not a big drinker at all; in fact I'm a bit of a lightweight. But I will pound a few on occasion. It isn't that hard though to make sure you have a ride if you need one. That's my point.

(04-15-2015 01:34 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 01:17 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Respect you greatly Brovol for being responsible to enforce DUI laws and applying penalties for the same. I drink very little, maybe a drink every couple weeks or so.

My point is the marked difference in treatment in sober vs. drinking drivers for the same situation.

Also marked sameness of treatment of drinking drivers regardless of infractions. So the mature caring daddy and mommy coming home from a wedding reception, yes they had a toast and a couple mixed drinks, daddy says "I'm fine" drives home carefully, gets pulled over for overly careful driving, gets a DUI, boom, $10,000 in the hole, never had a problem, no accident, nothing. Then it becomes, well he was irresponsible and something "could have" happened. Yeah. But that is true of sober drivers too. Something can always happen.

So the sober driver pulls out in front of the drinking driver causing a collision. The sober driver gets a ticket for running a stop sign. The drinking driver goes to hell for the next 5 years. But who caused the incident?

Just saying. I'm thinking of starting a group, Grandfathers Against Sober Driving. Check the statistics, most incidents are caused by sober drivers.

I understand what you are saying, and I don't really disagree. People make mistakes; sober and drunk. If the sole purpose of the law was to punish for the damage done by the wrongful act, then it shouldn't matter whether the person is drunk or sober. But another purpose of the law is to motivate people to do the right think. And we sometimes motivate with a stick. And while the penalties don't always cause everyone to do the right thing, in the years since there has been a strong movement against drunk driving, there has been more awareness of the consequences, and that has helped.

I have never found it difficult to avoid drinking and driving. I am not a big drinker at all; in fact I'm a bit of a lightweight. But I will pound a few on occasion. It isn't that hard though to make sure you have a ride if you need one. That's my point.

We agree. My wife likes to drink, so it is me who normally stays sober. No doubt that drunk driving is not a good thing. And Ryan needs to grow up and put his big boy pants on. He's had his two strikes, next time they will drop the hammer on him, regardless of connections.

(04-15-2015 01:40 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 01:34 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 01:17 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Respect you greatly Brovol for being responsible to enforce DUI laws and applying penalties for the same. I drink very little, maybe a drink every couple weeks or so.

My point is the marked difference in treatment in sober vs. drinking drivers for the same situation.

Also marked sameness of treatment of drinking drivers regardless of infractions. So the mature caring daddy and mommy coming home from a wedding reception, yes they had a toast and a couple mixed drinks, daddy says "I'm fine" drives home carefully, gets pulled over for overly careful driving, gets a DUI, boom, $10,000 in the hole, never had a problem, no accident, nothing. Then it becomes, well he was irresponsible and something "could have" happened. Yeah. But that is true of sober drivers too. Something can always happen.

So the sober driver pulls out in front of the drinking driver causing a collision. The sober driver gets a ticket for running a stop sign. The drinking driver goes to hell for the next 5 years. But who caused the incident?

Just saying. I'm thinking of starting a group, Grandfathers Against Sober Driving. Check the statistics, most incidents are caused by sober drivers.

I understand what you are saying, and I don't really disagree. People make mistakes; sober and drunk. If the sole purpose of the law was to punish for the damage done by the wrongful act, then it shouldn't matter whether the person is drunk or sober. But another purpose of the law is to motivate people to do the right think. And we sometimes motivate with a stick. And while the penalties don't always cause everyone to do the right thing, in the years since there has been a strong movement against drunk driving, there has been more awareness of the consequences, and that has helped.

I have never found it difficult to avoid drinking and driving. I am not a big drinker at all; in fact I'm a bit of a lightweight. But I will pound a few on occasion. It isn't that hard though to make sure you have a ride if you need one. That's my point.

We agree. My wife likes to drink, so it is me who normally stays sober. No doubt that drunk driving is not a good thing. And Ryan needs to grow up and put his big boy pants on. He's had his two strikes, next time they will drop the hammer on him, regardless of connections.

I love it when my wife drinks! I am always willing to drive home, and willing to go fetch more wine for her. It usually pays dividends later. She becomes a "free spirit". LOL. And I am like, "you go girlfriend".....

Quote:My point is he's had two brushes with the law involving alcohol which may be indicative of a "problem" that needs addressing in addition to the legal consequences.

Yeah... but... man. You could say the same the other way -- like say, instead, 11 years ago he got a speeding ticket for going 5 over. Does that further mean he has a driving problem, 11 years ago for a no-big-deal speeding ticket? I dunno... I put an adult-under-21-in-possession-of-beer, when in college is like saying college-kid-fooling-around-with-girl. About as common. Actually, I wish it was As common - lol. I'd trade beer for fooling around, but I digress. I never got a minor-in-possession ticket, but about 33-40% of my friends have at one point from 17-20. And we're not talking the craziest partiers in the world -- just run of the mill WMU folk and from high school/post-high school. IMO, it's just a luck of the draw for about 75% of them.

Quote:Got my only DUI 20 years ago. I was not in the car. Because I had my keys and was close to my car, it was intent to drive.

WHAT?! They can do that? Like, you can't get cigarettes out of your car? Or a condom? Or a phone to call someone to use a condom on? That's insane!

Quote:I have never found it difficult to avoid drinking and driving. I am not a big drinker at all; in fact I'm a bit of a lightweight.

It's easier in the city, with Uber. WAY better than taxis. They get there quick, and not more expensive. Incredibly convenient. Plus, if one goes to a downtown-like place where there's pay-to-park, one nixes out the $4-$10 for parking, too. Some people though live out in the sticks, so that and taxis aren't so handy.

Quote:I love it when my wife drinks! I am always willing to drive home, and willing to go fetch more wine for her. It usually pays dividends later.

It's cute when it's a wife or GF. When it's a gal you're on a 2nd date with, her gal pals end up getting pissed. "Wait, what?! He wasn't drinking -- he just bought you drinks to get you drunk and kept piling it on saying he likes it when you drink as it pays dividends later, huh? Where did you Meat this guy?!"

(04-15-2015 12:54 PM)brovol Wrote:  I handle drunk driving cases every day. The defendants are frequently very good, decent, hard working citizens, who have no other type of criminal record, and who I am very sympathetic of. Even the multiple offender drunk drivers. But all of them make the same decision to put themselves in a situation where the scenario above plays out. If you are going to drink more than a beer or two, take the steps to arrange for a ride. Its not that hard; and if it is difficult under the circumstances, then don't drink.

Your opinion regarding the validity of drunk driving laws is completely irrelevant as your employer depends and thrives on revenues from DUI cases. It's like asking an alcoholic if he wants another drink.

(04-15-2015 08:32 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Now what were we talking about again?.... Oh yeah... that Ryan Cubut got promoted and some people think that because he slipped up and drove drunk and got caught that he should pay for it for the rest of his life..

Complete garbage. No one suggested that and you know it. Get a grip.