(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

(04-08-2015 06:31 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 10:55 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 06:19 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 10:39 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 12:24 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Let's see how that compares to UNC:

35 Both
36 Title
38 RS
40 Title
41 RS
44 RS
45 Title
46 RS - Final Four
56 RS
57 Both - FF
59 RS
60 RS
67 Title - FF
68 Title - FF
69 Title - FF
71 RS
72 Title - FF
75 Title
76 RS
77 Both - NCAA
79 Title
81 Tile - FF
82 Both - FF
83 RS
89 Title
93 RS - FF
94 Title
95 RS - FF
97 Title - FF
98 Title - FF
00 - FF
01 - RS
05- RS - FF
07 - Both
08 - Both - FF
09 - RS - FF
11- RS
12 - RS

I have UNC with 37 title wins, first place finishes in the regular season and/or Final Fours over 82 years.

20 Conference titles and 5 national titles.

That's pretty damn even.

Again, UNC was sort of off the radar from 47-55 during Everett Case's tenure at NC State. From 61-66 they were recovering from the Point Shaving Scandal. Past that the speed bumps are the Dorehty years and the current 7 year draught in the ACC Tournament.

It's an amazing drop off from those to until you get to NC State.

How many for NC State?

Case:

47 - Both
48 - Both
49 - Both
50 - Both
51 - Both
52 - Title, Final Four
55 - Both
56 - Title
59 - Both

Maravich:

65 - Title

Sloan:

70 - Title
73 - Both
74 - Both, Final Four (Champs)

Valvano:

83 - Title, Final Four (Champs)
85 - Regular Season
87 - Title
90 - Regular Season

State has 27 total title wins, first place finishes, and/or Final Four appearances

16 Conference titles, and just two national championships. As you can see, the decapitation of the program in 1990 really shows. In the 40's State played in the NIT as it was the more prestigious post season tournent until the early 50's.

The point shaving scandal that came to UNC, then NC State hurt both in the early 1960's. Some say it help to put Case into an early grave, but he was fairly old at his death. Press Marivich was Pistol Pete's father, but Pete was too stupid to gain admission to NC State and so father and son went to LSU. The fight over David Thompson in 1972 was so intense that Bill Guthridge got his friend at the NCAA to give NC State and Duke a year's probation for recruiting Thompson - State allowed him to sleep in a dorm and play a pick-up game, Duke gave him a sport coat to wear to a nice dinner. That cost State a Final Four in 1973 as that team was 27-0.

Basketball cost NC State the 1958 Orange Bowl in a recruiting battle with Kentucky over Jackie Moreland. In 1957 State had recruited the 1,2,3, 4, and 6 kids in the nation, but Adolph Rupp was so mad he hire a private eye to gin up information for the Kentucky run NCAA infractions committee (yes the committee was run by a Kentucky professor). State had agreed to give Moreland's wife a scholarship. It turned out she was brilliant and worthy of a scholly most anywhere (she wanted to be a doctor), but Kentucky used it to generate a four year all-sports probation against NC State, costing us the 1958 Orange Bowl.

Long story short, NC State was roughly even with UNC and Duke in basketball until 1990 since then, those two split what used to be split by three.

That dynamic will not change until K retires as he greatly overshadows both UNC and NC State. By then there will be so many schools in the ACC, that NC State will never catch up to Duke and UNC.

I guess the key thing that folks really don't remember is just how dominate Duke was in athletics from 1933 until 1962 - in all sports in the Southern Conference and ACC. It was not until they deemphasized football in 1962 that their football dropped off the map.

Thanks, but why would you say NC State had just two National Titles? That is two more than most other universities in the country!

So it is
Duke 37, 22, 5
UNC 37, 20, 4
State 27, 16, 2

I take it no other ACC schools even come close to the level achieved by those three. The pack would be the only school with much chance of narrowing that divide should Carolina and / or Duke see a decline in the years to come. The paper classes scandal really should result in one of Carolina's national titles and some wins being purged. When coach k leaves Duke and Ol' Roy retires we could see a drop off as well.

I said just two because we didn't get to defend in 75 when MD finished first in the regular season and we lost to UNC in the ACC title game. We were 22-6 and could have repeated. We had a better team in 1973 when we were 27-0. We played in a couple of NIT's in the 40's instead of the NCAA which did not become the premier tournament until the early 50's. We had two elite 8 finishes under Valvano that could have been title runs with a little luck.

State should have at least three titles, but as it is we just have two.

Most people that are older than 45 are shocked that NC State only has two National Titles. You'll usually hear them say "NC State used to be really good"

This thread raises a question for me. It's a congratulatory thread on Duke's championship, and not a single post is by anybody who appears to be a Blue Devil fan. Are there any pure Duke fans in this forum? Are they still out somewhere celebrating?

IIRC HallCity is the only Duke fan that posts here and I may have that name wrong.

(04-09-2015 06:07 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  IIRC HallCity is the only Duke fan that posts here and I may have that name wrong.

What about that Laettner's Legacy guy?

(04-09-2015 08:21 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 06:07 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  IIRC HallCity is the only Duke fan that posts here and I may have that name wrong.

What about that Laettner's Legacy guy?

There aren't really that many Duke fans in NC. I mean dedicated fans. There are lots of fans during BB season when they are winning. But they are really just college BB fans that enjoy following a winner. You will not see them at a football game, they are pulling for their favorite college FB team and it isn't Duke, unless maybe they are having a really good year. It is a small school with very few of their students coming from in state. Heck of a hospital though. Just pasted the 6 hour mark in the ER waiting room. If they see the wife in the next 30 minutes I might even start pulling for the Devils,

(04-09-2015 03:52 PM)ken d Wrote:  This thread raises a question for me. It's a congratulatory thread on Duke's championship, and not a single post is by anybody who appears to be a Blue Devil fan. Are there any pure Duke fans in this forum? Are they still out somewhere celebrating?

Yes, I'd say we've been out celebrating, and congratulating the team amongst ourselves.

I'd like to think that the fact that I wore the same lucky sweatshirt (grey with "DUKE" in actual Duke Blue, not the Kentucky Blue crap so many people are wearing these days) to watch all six NCAA games helped, but all the credit for the win seems to be going to Allen and Jones (even though they were wearing the wrong shade of blue). All the credit that isn't going to the refs, that is.

Dawgitall: Hope your wife's okay! Duke gets a disproportionate number of undergrads from North Carolina, many more than comparable schools across the country other than Wake -- it just has a lot fewer than UNC-CH and NC State (which have minimums, being state schools). When I was there (early 90's), I'd say a small plurality of kids were from North Carolina, with a fair majority from the Southeast (especially if you include South Florida and DC). Wake's demographics probably aren't too far off from Duke's, by the way.

(04-09-2015 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

They have been dominant in Women's Soccer the last couple of years. Heard we have some good recruits coming in next year though. Europeans.

(04-09-2015 10:58 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

They have been dominant in Women's Soccer the last couple of years. Heard we have some good recruits coming in next year though. Europeans.

More than the last couple of years.

http://www.ncaa.com/history/soccer-women/d1

(04-09-2015 11:30 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 10:58 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

They have been dominant in Women's Soccer the last couple of years. Heard we have some good recruits coming in next year though. Europeans.

More than the last couple of years.

http://www.ncaa.com/history/soccer-women/d1

Fair enough. I only looked back two years.

(04-09-2015 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

You need to spend some time in the record books before you start up with the smart alecky comments.

(04-10-2015 08:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 12:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-09-2015 11:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 11:30 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Congrats to Duke

A stellar 80 years in basketball for them.

Wash your mouth out with soap!

It must be a bitter pill to swallow - dropping down to the 2nd best basketball program in the state. It might not be so bad if they weren't better at football and lacrosse, too. Surely there is SOME sport where UNC is better than Duke?

You need to spend some time in the record books before you start up with the smart alecky comments.

See, you speak of record books, while I refer to the here and now!

Speaking of the here and now, Duke is now down to 7 scholarship players for next year. They will probably add a Top Ten recruit, Brandon Ingram, who is expected to choose between UNC and Duke soon. They also have a two star walk on with a nice hoops pedigree, Justin Robinson (son of David Robinson). He doesn't have his father's height (he's 6'7") but then again neither did his father at that age.

That's a thin roster once again, only this time with no true point guard and no dominant big man. And looking at that roster, only five are good bets to be back the following year. That puts Duke squarely in the one and done reload cycle Kentucky and Calipari are so roundly criticized for. I wonder for how long Coach K will have the stomach for that, given that's he's about 67 years old now.

While the likelihood of K's retirement can't be effectively used against him when recruiting kids who only expect to stay one year anyhow, it could make it hard to break that cycle. And it could make it poison, at least for a few years, for whoever succeeds K unless they bring in a big name coach with a proven record. If it's one of his assistants, I don't expect him to last long.