Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

It's still a better investment than GM.

(04-05-2015 11:20 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

It's still a better investment than GM.

That aint sayin much...

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

Remember Jimmy Carter pi$$ed away billions on synthetic fuel.

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Damn

While I'm not a fan of coorporate welfare, I think many would agree that losing the American auto industry would be a disaster.

(04-06-2015 06:49 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

The new model won't save them.

They lose 8900 per vehicle right now. The new model will lose even more per vehicle.

The fraud is in selling carbon credits, Musk and the Johns walk away with that cash in pocket.

The company is a loser from every financial standpoint, unless you are running it.

(04-06-2015 09:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:49 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

The new model won't save them.

They lose 8900 per vehicle right now. The new model will lose even more per vehicle.

The fraud is in selling carbon credits, Musk and the Johns walk away with that cash in pocket.

The company is a loser from every financial standpoint, unless you are running it.

Where are you getting the $8900 per vehicle?

I haven't seen that, would be interested to read about it.

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

There realistically is no potential other than novelties.

The electric car lost this was 115 years ago for the same reasons they don't work today.

It's the Star Trek mentality at play, the clean humming future of cars etc. The reality is they are environmental catastrophes to produce and offer the consumer nothing but limitations.

This battle is lost and Tesla is a fraud serving no other purpose than to make Musk and other cronies a lot of money while riding the taxpayer and investors into the ground. It's nothing short of fraud.

::

(04-06-2015 09:40 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 09:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:49 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 04:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Tesla, $764 million in losses in 3 years and still looking to make a penny.

This is a textbook example of corporate welfare and fraud. Well, that, and Americans' willingness to believe anything, including the myth that electric cars are the future.

The sooner this fraud goes broke the better.

Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

The new model won't save them.

They lose 8900 per vehicle right now. The new model will lose even more per vehicle.

The fraud is in selling carbon credits, Musk and the Johns walk away with that cash in pocket.

The company is a loser from every financial standpoint, unless you are running it.

Where are you getting the $8900 per vehicle?

I haven't seen that, would be interested to read about it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars.../23240599/

You can run the numbers yourself.

I actually low-balled it. It's closer to $14,000 per car.

55,000 cars in three years and operating losses of $764,000,000.

Sounds just like Solyndra does it not?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/39...hil-kerpen

Great article on the fraud

(04-06-2015 09:44 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  ::

(04-06-2015 09:40 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 09:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:49 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Same thing was said about wind and solar power as well. We'll see what happens when the subsidies end. And electric cars do have potential, but at this point the national infrastructure can't support it.

Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

The new model won't save them.

They lose 8900 per vehicle right now. The new model will lose even more per vehicle.

The fraud is in selling carbon credits, Musk and the Johns walk away with that cash in pocket.

The company is a loser from every financial standpoint, unless you are running it.

Where are you getting the $8900 per vehicle?

I haven't seen that, would be interested to read about it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars.../23240599/

You can run the numbers yourself.

I actually low-balled it. It's closer to $14,000 per car.

55,000 cars in three years and operating losses of $764,000,000.

Can't look at it that way. Have to remove the cost of their investments in manufacturing operations / production lines to determine profit / loss per car. Have to invest in facilities to produce your product. I thought you meant they were losing money strictly in the sense that the cost of the parts in the car were more expensive than what they're selling the car for.

Some may argue that you also have to remove the cost of installing the charger network, but those don't generate ongoing revenue and are a key selling point for the car, so I think that should be included in the cost of the car (and Tesla even said themselves that they price the super chargers into the price of the car so they don't have to charge for recharging at the stations).

(04-06-2015 10:09 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 09:44 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  ::

(04-06-2015 09:40 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 09:38 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 06:49 AM)Niner National Wrote:  Tesla future hinges on delivering the model 3 for the. Promised price. If they csn release a 35000 model, they'll do well.

If they can't and that turns out to be a 50000 car, they're ******.

The new model won't save them.

They lose 8900 per vehicle right now. The new model will lose even more per vehicle.

The fraud is in selling carbon credits, Musk and the Johns walk away with that cash in pocket.

The company is a loser from every financial standpoint, unless you are running it.

Where are you getting the $8900 per vehicle?

I haven't seen that, would be interested to read about it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars.../23240599/

You can run the numbers yourself.

I actually low-balled it. It's closer to $14,000 per car.

55,000 cars in three years and operating losses of $764,000,000.

Can't look at it that way. Have to remove the cost of their investments in manufacturing operations / production lines to determine profit / loss per car. Have to invest in facilities to produce your product. I thought you meant they were losing money strictly in the sense that the cost of the parts in the car were more expensive than what they're selling the car for.

Some may argue that you also have to remove the cost of installing the charger network, but those don't generate ongoing revenue and are a key selling point for the car, so I think that should be included in the cost of the car (and Tesla even said themselves that they price the super chargers into the price of the car so they don't have to charge for recharging at the stations).

In fairness, that's the only way to look at it. They've sold X number of widgets and have lost Y over the period.

That's the company in a nutshell. It's a dog.

It's a regulatory scheme/fraud, not a business.

(04-06-2015 09:45 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Sounds just like Solyndra does it not?

What do you think happened with Solyndra btw?

Amazon.com's been losing money for what, 20 years?

(04-06-2015 10:31 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Amazon.com's been losing money for what, 20 years?

20 years? the debt you would incur would be astronomical to maintain the company.

it does sound like a liberal plan to run a government though.

(04-06-2015 12:59 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 10:31 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Amazon.com's been losing money for what, 20 years?

20 years? the debt you would incur would be astronomical to maintain the company.

it does sound like a liberal plan to run a government though.

The stock's been pretty high still - I don't know why. And I know they've also taken on a bunch of debt. In their case, they're talking about losing millions when they have sales of billions, so the % isn't very high but it's still a lot of money.

EDIT: that was from an article, looking elsewhere I don't know that they've lost money every year. I know early on they were losing more money every year though. Not as bad now but they're not exactly making much if anything.