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AAC/MW Merger
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #41
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 11:43 AM)Bull Wrote:  When the Big East added SDSU and Boise, it was widely ridiculed by almost everyone as an unworkable coast to coast conference. This in spite of the western members being football only. Why would a nationwide conference suddenly be workable now? Obviously the Olympic sports would largely stay in the western/eastern portions anyway... so what's the point? Plus, past Boise (and to some degree Fresno, SDSU...) who really adds gravitas to the AAC? I doubt the TV deal moves much at all.

Kruciff is totally right, we're doing fine, stability is here, and we're looking at a vastly improved situation for our TV deal, which (very smartly) is up for 'look in' in just a couple more years.

A nationwide conference is just too big. Heck, we have folks who think the AAC footprint is too big!

I'd say BYU...
04-06-2015 11:46 AM
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YNot Online
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Post: #42
RE: AAC/MW Merger
This entire thread is better placed in the realignment forum.

The problem with a full merger is that the MWC has a lot of dead weight in football (San Jose St., Wyoming, Hawaii, New Mexico, UNLV) and some really weak local markets (Logan, Reno, Laramie). That offsets a lot of the upside - you still have to play the deadweight on the schedule and share the revenue.

IMO, the better solution is to add a third 6-team western division through expansion, rather than a merger. So, current AAC set up plus Boise St., Colorado St., San Diego St., and three of BYU/Air Force/Fresno/UNLV/New Mexico (you could even make some arguments for Northern Illinois and some other Texas schools). BYU would be at the top of the list, but I'm not convinced that BYU's leadership would go for it. Air Force brings the military academy angle, Fresno brings a second California team, UNLV has a decent market and good basketball, and New Mexico is a state flagship.

Of course, this would mean that conference championship deregulation is approved. This structure maintains the regionality for rivalries and travel (especially Olympic sports) but expands the conference nationwide to a true American conference.

Without the MWC deadweight, this most assuredly would improve the conference TV deal. From the current AAC perspective, you add the G5 program that gets the best TV ratings (Boise St.) and new top-25 markets (Denver, San Diego). From the MWC defectors' perspective, you expand your brand potential to large media markets nationwide, boost your conference strength of schedule, and replace road trips to Laramie, Logan, and Reno with road trips to heavily-populated metropolitan areas nationwide. At renegotiation of the AAC TV deal (triggered by expansion?), this league could realistically score $5-8 million per team - may be more if the stars align.

The MWC defectors would also easily bring three or four bowl games along - Las Vegas, Poinsettia, and likely Boise and Tuscon - if wanted. The new AAC would easily be the best G5 conference, so the annual NY6 bid would almost be an automatic.

With regards to BYU, if they're not interested in full membership, there could still be scheduling and bowl affiliation possibilities and BYU's Olympic sports (a la Notre Dame-ACC). BYU has great Olympic sports to balance things out (sans Navy) and could help to benefit the TV deal and bowl affiliations. Not sure whether the AAC members would bite on that or not.
04-06-2015 11:54 AM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: AAC/MW Merger
^Im in.

You guys always saying to me "make the best of being in the AAC".....ok, this is making the best of it.
04-06-2015 12:32 PM
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PirateMarv Offline
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Post: #44
RE: AAC/MW Merger
No.
04-06-2015 12:37 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #45
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 11:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  This entire thread is better placed in the realignment forum.

The problem with a full merger is that the MWC has a lot of dead weight in football (San Jose St., Wyoming, Hawaii, New Mexico, UNLV) and some really weak local markets (Logan, Reno, Laramie). That offsets a lot of the upside - you still have to play the deadweight on the schedule and share the revenue.

IMO, the better solution is to add a third 6-team western division through expansion, rather than a merger. So, current AAC set up plus Boise St., Colorado St., San Diego St., and three of BYU/Air Force/Fresno/UNLV/New Mexico (you could even make some arguments for Northern Illinois and some other Texas schools). BYU would be at the top of the list, but I'm not convinced that BYU's leadership would go for it. Air Force brings the military academy angle, Fresno brings a second California team, UNLV has a decent market and good basketball, and New Mexico is a state flagship.

Of course, this would mean that conference championship deregulation is approved. This structure maintains the regionality for rivalries and travel (especially Olympic sports) but expands the conference nationwide to a true American conference.

Without the MWC deadweight, this most assuredly would improve the conference TV deal. From the current AAC perspective, you add the G5 program that gets the best TV ratings (Boise St.) and new top-25 markets (Denver, San Diego). From the MWC defectors' perspective, you expand your brand potential to large media markets nationwide, boost your conference strength of schedule, and replace road trips to Laramie, Logan, and Reno with road trips to heavily-populated metropolitan areas nationwide. At renegotiation of the AAC TV deal (triggered by expansion?), this league could realistically score $5-8 million per team - may be more if the stars align.

The MWC defectors would also easily bring three or four bowl games along - Las Vegas, Poinsettia, and likely Boise and Tuscon - if wanted. The new AAC would easily be the best G5 conference, so the annual NY6 bid would almost be an automatic.

With regards to BYU, if they're not interested in full membership, there could still be scheduling and bowl affiliation possibilities and BYU's Olympic sports (a la Notre Dame-ACC). BYU has great Olympic sports to balance things out (sans Navy) and could help to benefit the TV deal and bowl affiliations. Not sure whether the AAC members would bite on that or not.

Im fine with that option, its just harder to get it to work. The straight merger is easier because it avoids any strife and it effectively allows things to largely continue just as they are for the most part.

The real best way to go is a completely new conference (so you can eliminate any perceived "dead weight" in the east or west), but you cant really do that until the CFP is being renegotiated in 12 years.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 12:48 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-06-2015 12:47 PM
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Tigersmoke Offline
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Post: #46
RE: AAC/MW Merger
Byu and Boise as full members with sdsu and csu or afa could garner instant cred and much more $. I think this collection of teams could get that same 10-13 million that the old big east would've received. Byu as a partial member does nothing for an expanded AAC but they would be the most important team to get in any new expansion.
04-06-2015 12:56 PM
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USFRamenu Away
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Post: #47
RE: AAC/MW Merger
Most are looking at the conferences Media Contract issues/woes in the wrong light. The problem isn't necessarily the product but, the lack of suitors.

There is a way in which to actually achieve a coast to coast conference utilizing a larger number of schools while retaining a 9 game conference schedule. This would be great for only one possible buyer and they haven't entered the market yet. So this entire thread can be voided for that one fact.

ESPN, Fox, whomever will not pay for what they already own. The greatest issue is Footprint. Who can garner the most viewers in the most diverse yet greatest percentage of the population available. That's where the true money is. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 12:58 PM by USFRamenu.)
04-06-2015 12:58 PM
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CyberBull Offline
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Post: #48
RE: AAC/MW Merger
It may be kind of fun to have something to play for toward the end of the year where the east meets west for an access game bid.

This could eventually materialize into a locked in access game slot and makes a better argument for a guaranteed slot if and when the playoffs expand.

From the P5's perspective they could acquiesce two conferences for the price of one and based, especially when those two conference are clearly noted as the best of the rest, with my apologies to the MAC that has a couple very good teams but just not very good top to bottom.
04-06-2015 12:59 PM
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Tigersmoke Offline
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Post: #49
RE: AAC/MW Merger
I think a lot of people see our low tv contract the wrong way. The lack of stability played the biggest part in our perceived value at the time. who in their right mind would've paid good money for a conference that may not have continued to exist for more than one contract cycle? In spite of the AAC hatters I think our tv ratings and overall performanand potential is not going unnoticed by the TV execs
04-06-2015 02:06 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #50
RE: AAC/MW Merger
WEST
UNLV
Boise State
BYU
San Diego State

SOUTH
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Tulane

EAST
East Carolina
Memphis
UCF
South Florida

NORTH
Connecticut
Cincinnati
Temple
Navy
04-06-2015 02:33 PM
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Kruciff Offline
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Post: #51
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 02:33 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  SOUTH
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Tulane

Not sure what any of those teams in that division would think, but I know UCF would be unhappy with all 3 of the private schools in the same division as themselves.
04-06-2015 02:42 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #52
RE: AAC/MW Merger
It wouldn't be the first time UH would be in a division with those teams.
04-06-2015 04:44 PM
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SMUmustangs Offline
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Post: #53
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 11:08 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I wouldn't want to do a merger. I would want to get certain schools to defect from each conference. This is what a merger would look like vs defection and start of the 11th FBS conference.

Merger
American
Memphis (25)
Cincinnati
UCF
East Carolina
Houston
Temple
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Connecticut
Navy

Mountain West
Boise State (16)
Colorado State
Utah State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming
Fresno State
San Diego State
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
UNLV

VS.

Metro Conference East
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis
ECU
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU

West
Navy (fb only)
Boise State
BYU
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV
Hawaii (fb only)

I like your idea of getting rid of some of the bottom rung schools, but I do not like the name Metro Confernece
04-06-2015 04:59 PM
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Tulsafanzz Offline
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Post: #54
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 04:59 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 11:08 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I wouldn't want to do a merger. I would want to get certain schools to defect from each conference. This is what a merger would look like vs defection and start of the 11th FBS conference.

Merger
American
Memphis (25)
Cincinnati
UCF
East Carolina
Houston
Temple
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Connecticut
Navy

Mountain West
Boise State (16)
Colorado State
Utah State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming
Fresno State
San Diego State
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
UNLV

VS.

Metro Conference East
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis
ECU
USF
UCF
Houston
Tulsa

West
Navy (fb only)
Boise State
BYU
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV
Hawaii (fb only)

I like your idea of getting rid of some of the bottom rung schools, but I do not like the name Metro Confernece

Me, too.
04-06-2015 07:31 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #55
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 04:59 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 11:08 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I wouldn't want to do a merger. I would want to get certain schools to defect from each conference. This is what a merger would look like vs defection and start of the 11th FBS conference.

Merger
American
Memphis (25)
Cincinnati
UCF
East Carolina
Houston
Temple
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Connecticut
Navy

Mountain West
Boise State (16)
Colorado State
Utah State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming
Fresno State
San Diego State
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
UNLV

VS.

Metro Conference East
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis
ECU
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU

West
Navy (fb only)
Boise State
BYU
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV
Hawaii (fb only)

I like your idea of getting rid of some of the bottom rung schools, but I do not like the name Metro Confernece

I'm not committed to the name. 07-coffee3
04-07-2015 08:20 AM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #56
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-06-2015 07:31 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 04:59 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 11:08 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  I wouldn't want to do a merger. I would want to get certain schools to defect from each conference. This is what a merger would look like vs defection and start of the 11th FBS conference.

Merger
American
Memphis (25)
Cincinnati
UCF
East Carolina
Houston
Temple
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Connecticut
Navy

Mountain West
Boise State (16)
Colorado State
Utah State
Air Force
New Mexico
Wyoming
Fresno State
San Diego State
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
UNLV

VS.

Metro Conference East
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
Memphis
ECU
USF
UCF
Houston
Tulsa SMU

West
Navy (fb only)
Boise State
BYU
Colorado State
Air Force
San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV
Hawaii (fb only)

I like your idea of getting rid of some of the bottom rung schools, but I do not like the name Metro Confernece

Me, too.

05-nono
04-07-2015 08:21 AM
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mtmedlin Offline
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Post: #57
RE: AAC/MW Merger
I think a merger will never happen and is a bad idea. If youre going to expand, then you have to go after pieces that can actually be moved. Getting any team from the MWC is going to be tough but you have to look for the ones that have a soft spot and I personally think there is two.

Colorado State is investing a ton of money and wants to be seen as a higher level school. Of all the schools in the MWC, I actually tend to think that they would be the most open but would need a good reason.

So where I would start is adding Army. (I know many are saying "Huh") CSU I dont think will ever leave Air Force.... but Air Force was intruged last time about joining our conference "if" Army and Navy were in. Army does nothing for us competitively but they do add value. People watch them no matter how much they suck.

Once you get Army on board, then you begin to pursue Air Force. You go to both of them and present the expansion as a package for both. I think theres a chance. Slim but theres a chance.

If all agree you have 15 in football and 13 in basketball. Heres where I go from there. Add VCU, Wichita St. and then offer BYU to join as a non-football school with a 6 game football scheduling agreement. This is about the only way I see us getting BYU and they would be worth it. Adding BYU gives Airforce and CSU a far western team for their olympic sports. Wichita also helps. Having SMU, Tulsa and Houston will make travel for the new teams much less and doable.

Now your at 15 football and 16 in basketball/ olympic sports. Its very geographically balanced. Football can be in 5 team pods. (east, west and Mid) or you can look for a 16th team.

What I like about this entire setup is it gets quality and some good markets. Wichita raises our basketball and baseball significantly. VCU adds to those two and also plays a solid game of soccer. BYU we all know. CSU is all around a solid program and is investing a ton. All these teams fit our basic profile (BYU is a bit different)

Football
East: Uconn, Temple, Army, Navy and ECU
Mid: Cinci, Memphis, Tulane, USF and UCF
West: CSU, Air Force, Tulsa, SMU and Houston
Each team plays there pod and two crossover games with the other pods.

Basketball/ Olympic
East - Uconn, Temple, VCU, ECU, USF, UCF, Cinci, Memphis
West - BYU, CSU, Air Force, Wichita St, Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Tulane

To me, thats a conference that actually has a prayer of being put together, brings together the academies, has really solid basketball and baseball, improves soccer, adds quality opponents in football and geographically really isnt much worse then what we already have and could actually mean a little less travel.
04-07-2015 08:54 AM
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HamiltonJames Offline
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Post: #58
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-07-2015 08:21 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  05-nono

The Tulsa fan's point was legit. The idea of SMU calling for the elimination of "bottom" teams is one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments. (not that I would suggest that by any means....SMU is an academic bear, and if people don't think that matters to the P6, they have their eyes close; not to mention that some people want to jettison the league's only AAU school).


Better consider research and academics and exceptional winning in football, in addition to general athletic competence. The only thing the AAC is really missing in that regard are BYU and Boise, although it may be a good idea to shore up the west with SD State, Colo State and New Mexico.


If the goal of these merger ideas is to make the league presentable to the P6, which should be the only goal, trying to shore up the best 16 minor bowl football teams is a fools-game. That won't help the on the field weakness, which is the lack of a couple completely kick-ass football programs (very hard to do in G5 land;only boise and TCU have done it consistently).
Assembling minor bowl teams is the game to play after P6 has closed its doors.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2015 10:11 AM by HamiltonJames.)
04-07-2015 09:21 AM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #59
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-07-2015 08:54 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I think a merger will never happen and is a bad idea. If youre going to expand, then you have to go after pieces that can actually be moved. Getting any team from the MWC is going to be tough but you have to look for the ones that have a soft spot and I personally think there is two.

Colorado State is investing a ton of money and wants to be seen as a higher level school. Of all the schools in the MWC, I actually tend to think that they would be the most open but would need a good reason.

So where I would start is adding Army. (I know many are saying "Huh") CSU I dont think will ever leave Air Force.... but Air Force was intruged last time about joining our conference "if" Army and Navy were in. Army does nothing for us competitively but they do add value. People watch them no matter how much they suck.

Once you get Army on board, then you begin to pursue Air Force. You go to both of them and present the expansion as a package for both. I think theres a chance. Slim but theres a chance.

If all agree you have 15 in football and 13 in basketball. Heres where I go from there. Add VCU, Wichita St. and then offer BYU to join as a non-football school with a 6 game football scheduling agreement. This is about the only way I see us getting BYU and they would be worth it. Adding BYU gives Airforce and CSU a far western team for their olympic sports. Wichita also helps. Having SMU, Tulsa and Houston will make travel for the new teams much less and doable.

Now your at 15 football and 16 in basketball/ olympic sports. Its very geographically balanced. Football can be in 5 team pods. (east, west and Mid) or you can look for a 16th team.

What I like about this entire setup is it gets quality and some good markets. Wichita raises our basketball and baseball significantly. VCU adds to those two and also plays a solid game of soccer. BYU we all know. CSU is all around a solid program and is investing a ton. All these teams fit our basic profile (BYU is a bit different)

Football
East: Uconn, Temple, Army, Navy and ECU
Mid: Cinci, Memphis, Tulane, USF and UCF
West: CSU, Air Force, Tulsa, SMU and Houston
Each team plays there pod and two crossover games with the other pods.

Basketball/ Olympic
East - Uconn, Temple, VCU, ECU, USF, UCF, Cinci, Memphis
West - BYU, CSU, Air Force, Wichita St, Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Tulane

To me, thats a conference that actually has a prayer of being put together, brings together the academies, has really solid basketball and baseball, improves soccer, adds quality opponents in football and geographically really isnt much worse then what we already have and could actually mean a little less travel.

BYU football or nothing. 07-coffee3
04-07-2015 11:10 AM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #60
RE: AAC/MW Merger
(04-07-2015 09:21 AM)HamiltonJames Wrote:  
(04-07-2015 08:21 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  05-nono

The Tulsa fan's point was legit. The idea of SMU calling for the elimination of "bottom" teams is one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments. (not that I would suggest that by any means....SMU is an academic bear, and if people don't think that matters to the P6, they have their eyes close; not to mention that some people want to jettison the league's only AAU school).


Better consider research and academics and exceptional winning in football, in addition to general athletic competence. The only thing the AAC is really missing in that regard are BYU and Boise, although it may be a good idea to shore up the west with SD State, Colo State and New Mexico.


If the goal of these merger ideas is to make the league presentable to the P6, which should be the only goal, trying to shore up the best 16 minor bowl football teams is a fools-game. That won't help the on the field weakness, which is the lack of a couple completely kick-ass football programs (very hard to do in G5 land;only boise and TCU have done it consistently).
Assembling minor bowl teams is the game to play after P6 has closed its doors.

I would prefer a big state school in a large Texas metro but SMU will have to do.
04-07-2015 11:11 AM
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