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Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
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KNIGHTTIME Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 08:57 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 08:46 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Someone please answer me this. Why would ESPN do it? Before we have endless threads about expansion and the million teams that we could add which in someones convoluted mind means well make more money, I ask you this... WHY WOULD ESPN DO IT?

They already own the broadcasting rights to just about every team discussed for expansion. They are getting them for dirt cheap right now. So why would they agree to pay more to move any team into the AAC? It makes no sense? They wont do it because their nice. Those of us in the Big East can affirm that.

It may make all the sense in the world to us in order to make a better AAC but were not the one that pays the bills. So before we make theoretical posts about addition and all of that jazz, I simply want one person to tell me why ESPN would be willing to move teams and pay more for a product they already own?

Actually we do pay the bills, in part. Even if adding Wichita didn't boost the TV deal a single cent (which I seriously doubt) they'd add to the basketball strength, NCAA units, etc. They wouldn't get a full share of the TV anyway.

Right. They would cost each school about 50K. The way I look at is this---would you pay $50K to be in a better basketball league? That's effectively what you would be doing if you add them prior to renegotiation. I have no problem with that because I think 50K for a better basketball league makes sense. Some may not.

I'm pretty sure espn would go along with having more content in the aac and it wouldn't be dilutive to each member. If we have the same group in 2017, we will likely get a big pay jump anyway. We had the worse timing possible for contract negotiations before. Espn had to negatively hit us for their costs if our league imploded.
04-03-2015 09:39 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
Besides Greg Marshall, Wichita State has another thing going for its basketball program: Kansas recruiting.

Expanding into Kansas for hoops is not the worst idea in the world. Splitting the TV money one more way is the real issue... is it worth it?
04-03-2015 09:43 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
to put things in perspective....
Houston had 4 conference games this year on ESPN U and 8 on ESPNews. Another 4 on CBSSN.
USF had 2 on ESPN 2, 5 on U, 6 on News, and 2 on CBSSN.
Tulane had 3 on U, 9 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
ECU had 8 on U, 4 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
UCF had 3 on U, 6 on News, and 6 on CBSSN

so the weakest 5 teams had at least 15 games shown nationally each- over Double what Wichita got in conference play.
04-03-2015 09:50 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #24
Re: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
Basketball is becoming so irrelevant. Wgaf. Add em.
04-03-2015 09:51 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 09:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Besides Greg Marshall, Wichita State has another thing going for its basketball program: Kansas recruiting.

Expanding into Kansas for hoops is not the worst idea in the world. Splitting the TV money one more way is the real issue... is it worth it?

Assuming a non-football share is worth half of a full share (and assuming we had to promise Navy a full share of TV revenue), then Wichita St would have to add 4.5% to the TV pie for the conference to break even. Under the current deal, they would have to add $1M in value to break even.

With two regular season matchups with Memphis, Tulsa & SMU, and one with UConn, Temple and Cincy, plus their nonconference games and their added value to the conference tourney, I'd say it's certainly possible. That's a dozen or so compelling basketball games for TV added to the inventory.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 09:55 AM by CougarRed.)
04-03-2015 09:54 AM
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RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 09:54 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 09:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Besides Greg Marshall, Wichita State has another thing going for its basketball program: Kansas recruiting.

Expanding into Kansas for hoops is not the worst idea in the world. Splitting the TV money one more way is the real issue... is it worth it?

Assuming a non-football share is worth half of a full share (and assuming we had to promise Navy a full share of TV revenue), then Wichita St would have to add 4.5% to the TV pie for the conference to break even. Under the current deal, they would have to add $1M in value to break even.

With two regular season matchups with Memphis, Tulsa & SMU, and one with UConn, Temple and Cincy, plus their nonconference games and their added value to the conference tourney, I'd say it's certainly possible. That's a dozen or so compelling games for TV.

I thought our charter said 70/30 football only member/non-football member?

They would get a 30% share.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 09:56 AM by UofMemphis.)
04-03-2015 09:55 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 09:50 AM)stever20 Wrote:  to put things in perspective....
Houston had 4 conference games this year on ESPN U and 8 on ESPNews. Another 4 on CBSSN.
USF had 2 on ESPN 2, 5 on U, 6 on News, and 2 on CBSSN.
Tulane had 3 on U, 9 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
ECU had 8 on U, 4 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
UCF had 3 on U, 6 on News, and 6 on CBSSN

so the weakest 5 teams had at least 15 games shown nationally each- over Double what Wichita got in conference play.

So Wichita State would LOVE to join our league for exposure purposes only.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 09:56 AM by CougarRed.)
04-03-2015 09:56 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 09:56 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 09:50 AM)stever20 Wrote:  to put things in perspective....
Houston had 4 conference games this year on ESPN U and 8 on ESPNews. Another 4 on CBSSN.
USF had 2 on ESPN 2, 5 on U, 6 on News, and 2 on CBSSN.
Tulane had 3 on U, 9 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
ECU had 8 on U, 4 on News, and 4 on CBSSN
UCF had 3 on U, 6 on News, and 6 on CBSSN

so the weakest 5 teams had at least 15 games shown nationally each- over Double what Wichita got in conference play.

So Wichita State would LOVE to join our league for exposure purposes only.

Yeah, and not only that, but ESPN would like it because they would see more value at showing say a Wichita/Tulsa game with the AAC vs say a Wichita/Evansville game with the MVC.
04-03-2015 10:01 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #29
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 09:54 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(04-03-2015 09:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Besides Greg Marshall, Wichita State has another thing going for its basketball program: Kansas recruiting.

Expanding into Kansas for hoops is not the worst idea in the world. Splitting the TV money one more way is the real issue... is it worth it?

Assuming a non-football share is worth half of a full share (and assuming we had to promise Navy a full share of TV revenue), then Wichita St would have to add 4.5% to the TV pie for the conference to break even. Under the current deal, they would have to add $1M in value to break even.

With two regular season matchups with Memphis, Tulsa & SMU, and one with UConn, Temple and Cincy, plus their nonconference games and their added value to the conference tourney, I'd say it's certainly possible. That's a dozen or so compelling basketball games for TV added to the inventory.


Already established. Football 70%. Basketball 30%. And that was with the C7. A second indicator was the ESPN bridge contract, which was 5 million for just Olympic sports in 2013. Add the 2 million from CBS and the total is 7 million a year for basketball (the AAC total media value is 22 million). 7 mil divided by 11= 636K 7 million divided by 12 =583K The difference is $53K a school.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 10:04 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-03-2015 10:01 AM
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mtmedlin Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
Everyone is talking about how it would be good for the AAC (which I disagree) and for WSU but you havent addressed how it benefits ESPN?
They have no motivation to pay more for a product they already own. There are also several wrong pieces of information in this thread. The AAC does not have an official look in next year. That has been discussed mutiple times and yet remains a part of internet lore. Second, our contract runs till 2020 before we renegotiate. ESPN has no duty to increase our contract so WSU is a loss for us until then and on top of it, your talking about fairly significant travel expenses for several members, especially with them not adding any revenue to the contract.

Now assuming that we attempt to add them in 5 years, I still doubt they move the needle at all. Yes they will give us some credits, assuming they stay on top of their game for that many more years and that they make the tourney after having to play a much more difficult schedule. I think they probably would... but the question comes, if were going to expand and fill in slots then why go with a school that is going to only add to the 30% end of the contract?
Adding football only makes much more sense considering that is 70% of our tv contracts value and then the member schools wouldnt have the travel expense for all the olympic sports.
04-03-2015 10:14 AM
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mtmedlin Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
and btw, dont use the ACC as an example of ESPN moving pieces just to pay more. That move was entirely about them securing rights to the larger markets and best pieces of the Big East before we possibly signed a deal with a competitior. It was total retribution for Marinatto saying he would go to open market and rejecting ESPN. The old Big East would still be together and untouched if we had signed that original deal.
04-03-2015 10:16 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 10:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Everyone is talking about how it would be good for the AAC (which I disagree) and for WSU but you havent addressed how it benefits ESPN?
They have no motivation to pay more for a product they already own. There are also several wrong pieces of information in this thread. The AAC does not have an official look in next year. That has been discussed mutiple times and yet remains a part of internet lore. Second, our contract runs till 2020 before we renegotiate. ESPN has no duty to increase our contract so WSU is a loss for us until then and on top of it, your talking about fairly significant travel expenses for several members, especially with them not adding any revenue to the contract.

Now assuming that we attempt to add them in 5 years, I still doubt they move the needle at all. Yes they will give us some credits, assuming they stay on top of their game for that many more years and that they make the tourney after having to play a much more difficult schedule. I think they probably would... but the question comes, if were going to expand and fill in slots then why go with a school that is going to only add to the 30% end of the contract?
Adding football only makes much more sense considering that is 70% of our tv contracts value and then the member schools wouldnt have the travel expense for all the olympic sports.

The thing is, the MVC is up for bid next year. So it's very possible that they wouldn't own the MVC after that, meaning they wouldn't already own Wichita.
04-03-2015 10:20 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 10:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Everyone is talking about how it would be good for the AAC (which I disagree) and for WSU but you havent addressed how it benefits ESPN?
They have no motivation to pay more for a product they already own. There are also several wrong pieces of information in this thread. The AAC does not have an official look in next year. That has been discussed mutiple times and yet remains a part of internet lore. Second, our contract runs till 2020 before we renegotiate. ESPN has no duty to increase our contract so WSU is a loss for us until then and on top of it, your talking about fairly significant travel expenses for several members, especially with them not adding any revenue to the contract.

Now assuming that we attempt to add them in 5 years, I still doubt they move the needle at all. Yes they will give us some credits, assuming they stay on top of their game for that many more years and that they make the tourney after having to play a much more difficult schedule. I think they probably would... but the question comes, if were going to expand and fill in slots then why go with a school that is going to only add to the 30% end of the contract?
Adding football only makes much more sense considering that is 70% of our tv contracts value and then the member schools wouldnt have the travel expense for all the olympic sports.

Because there are no football schools that increase the contract at all. The reality is this is not going to be a football power conference. It can be a pretty decent conference, but its just not going to get P5 money. The basketball side CAN be a power conference. There is money on that 30% side. In fact, that 30% side pays the Big East 4 million a team.
04-03-2015 10:38 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 10:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Everyone is talking about how it would be good for the AAC (which I disagree) and for WSU but you havent addressed how it benefits ESPN?
They have no motivation to pay more for a product they already own. There are also several wrong pieces of information in this thread. The AAC does not have an official look in next year. That has been discussed mutiple times and yet remains a part of internet lore. Second, our contract runs till 2020 before we renegotiate. ESPN has no duty to increase our contract so WSU is a loss for us until then and on top of it, your talking about fairly significant travel expenses for several members, especially with them not adding any revenue to the contract.

Now assuming that we attempt to add them in 5 years, I still doubt they move the needle at all. Yes they will give us some credits, assuming they stay on top of their game for that many more years and that they make the tourney after having to play a much more difficult schedule. I think they probably would... but the question comes, if were going to expand and fill in slots then why go with a school that is going to only add to the 30% end of the contract?
Adding football only makes much more sense considering that is 70% of our tv contracts value and then the member schools wouldnt have the travel expense for all the olympic sports.

why would ESPN want us to add WSU?

WSU ratings vs

Memphis, ESPN, 0.3, 425k viewers
Utah, ESPN2, 0.3, 341k viewers
Alabama, ESPN2, 0.4 545k viewers
Hawai'i, ESPN2, 0.4 628k viewers
George Washington, ESPN2, 0.3 485k viewers
Northern Iowa, ESPN2, 0.3 507k viewers
--------
Kansas, CBS, 6.94, 9.9 million viewers

when they get on the big TV networks, they bring decent ratings...

moreover, their NCAA credits alone would offset the TV contract money...
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2015 10:48 AM by UofMemphis.)
04-03-2015 10:47 AM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
30% of a share isn't that much. In all honesty, there are a RAFT of schools out there that could pull that kind of money. WSU is an interesting option as it would make Tulsa feel a little more at home (and Tulsa are going to be in the AAC for a long time).

Does the AAC have any academic requirements for new members? Is it possible to bring in a program that delivers a decent basketball program with some decent academic standing as well?

I would like for the future additions to have the next 15 years in mind and not just the next 3 years.
04-03-2015 10:51 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
I would like to add Colorado State one day. They are making developments on all fronts - and they have shown an initiative to hang around the top level of all sports. They have decent basketball, decent academics, and so-so football. They are not embarrassing to be in a conference with.
04-03-2015 10:56 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
I have no problem adding Wichita State, they do bring good solid basketball and baseball but in terms of TV revenue $$$, their small market and small program may not be sufficient enough for a good bump up $$$ down the road.

Boise state poor academics, small market size, and tiny program are very similar to Wichita State... Meaning they both mirror each other extremely well, were one is good in football while the other is good in basketball... Head scratcher of addition, IMO.

If I'm the AAC, I focus my attention in adding additional Northeast presence (UMass).
04-03-2015 10:59 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
Wichita adds more to the west which is a good thing if we ever get to our Great Western Expansion plan.
04-03-2015 11:02 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
If we are going to add Wichita State, we may as well add VCU and Dayton at the same time. I am against UMass being added with Wichita State because then we would be at 13 football teams and need a 14th in addition to UMass (and there are no available candidates that will pull their own weight in football - this actually applies to UMass, too).

So, add Wichita State, VCU, and Dayton. Maybe we even add George Washington and St. Joe's with them to weaken the A-10 so that we get more tourney bids (in addition to probably already getting more merely since the first three teams that I mention would boost RPI).
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04-03-2015 11:03 AM
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RE: Tipping Point: I am on the 'add Wichita State' to balance NAVY train.. 12/12
(04-03-2015 11:03 AM)UConnHusky Wrote:  If we are going to add Wichita State, we may as well add VCU and Dayton at the same time. I am against UMass being added with Wichita State because then we would be at 13 football teams and need a 14th in addition to UMass (and there are no available candidates that will pull their own weight in football - this actually applies to UMass, too).

So, add Wichita State, VCU, and Dayton. Maybe we even add George Washington and St. Joe's with them to weaken the A-10 so that we get more tourney bids (in addition to probably already getting more merely since the first three teams that I mention would boost RPI).
04-rock

I dont think anyone is in a rush for VCU right now with Smart leaving
04-03-2015 11:05 AM
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