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The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:23 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 11:48 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  That is incorrect - a lie told by those trying to excuse bigotry.

No other state, or the Federal Government has a similar law.

What part of it do you judge not to be similar?




This is what the Arkansas governor said today about the bill passed by the Arkansas legislature:

"Arkansas Gov. Hutchinson asks for changes to religious freedom bill

04/01/15 10:47 AM—UPDATED 04/01/15 01:17 PM



By Emma Margolin


Following intense criticism from businesses, politicians and even his own son, Arkansas Republican Gov. Asa Hutchinson reversed course Wednesday and said that he would not approve the religious freedom measure currently awaiting his signature unless lawmakers changed it to directly mirror a federal version. The governor had previously said he would sign the legislation.

“The bill that is on my desk at the present time does not precisely mirror the federal law in a couple of ways,” Hutchinson told reporters gathered at the State Capitol in Little Rock. One particular difference, he said, is that the current version allows “the First Amendment to be asserted in the private litigation between parties.”

Legal experts say the private parties provision is particularly problematic in that it allows individuals (defined very broadly in this case) to use their religious beliefs as a defense in discrimination lawsuits. Opponents say it could embolden businesses to deny services to same-sex couples, for example, or to any other person with whom the business owners claim to have a religious objection.

The same provision exists in Indiana’s controversial religious freedom law, potentially upping the pressure on that state’s Republican Gov. Mike Pence to call for similar changes. But Kara Brook, Pence’s press secretary, said the governor would not be issuing a statement in reaction to Hutchinson’s decision, NBC’s Jennifer Roller reported.

Hutchinson said he had asked leaders in the general assembly to either recall the bill so that it could be amended, or pass additional changes so that the measure more closely resembles the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA)
.

Hutchinson cited the criticism he has received, saying that even his son signed a petition asking him to veto the bill.

“My son, Seth, signed the petition asking me, dad, the governor, to veto this bill,” Hutchinson said. “And it shows that there’s a generational difference of opinion on these issues.”

The governor also went further and said that he was considering an executive order to ensure protection against discrimination in the workplace for state government employees.



Arkansas’ Republican-controlled legislature gave final approval Tuesday to an Indiana-style Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which critics warn could sanction discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Arkansas’ largest employer, Wal-Mart, has urged Hutchinson to veto the measure. “Every day, in our stores, we see firsthand the benefits of diversity and inclusion have on our associates, customers and communities we serve,” CEO Doug McMillon said in a statement posted on Twitter. “It all starts with our core basic belief of respect for the individual. Today’s passage of HB1228 threatens to undermine the spirit of inclusion present throughout the state of Arkansas and does not reflect the values we proudly uphold. For these reasons, we are asking Governor Hutchinson to veto this legislation.”

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who is expected to formally announce her campaign for president this month, also urged Hutchinson to veto the bill.



Other business leaders, including Apple CEO Tim Cook, who is openly gay, have publicly condemned the legislation.

Earlier this year, Arkansas passed another controversial measure barring cities and counties from enacting nondiscrimination protections that exceed the state’s. Arkansas does not bar discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, so the measure effectively nullified LGBT protections that existed at the local level. That measure became law without Hutchinson’s signature.

In an effort to redress the negative consequences of that law, LGBT advocates put forth a ballot proposal to add sexual orientation and gender identity to the state’s existing civil rights act. Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge, a Republican, approved the wording of that measure Tuesday, clearing the way for supporters to gather signatures. If they can get 68,000 registered voters to sign on, the proposal will be added to next year’s ballot.

“That debate will continue and ultimately be determined by people of this state either through their legislative body, or through the vote of the people,” Hutchinson said of the effort to add LGBT protections to the state’s civil rights law. “This conversation does not end.”


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/arkansas-asa-...nbc_native
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 12:44 PM by TerryD.)
04-01-2015 12:43 PM
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All Dukes_All Day Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 12:32 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I just don't understand why you'd want to give your business to someone who hates you without knowing you or why you'd even want to deny someone business in the first place. If somebody denied me a service because of who I was, I'd just take my business elsewhere while saying "well, guess somebody else gets my money."

Do you really think that is what this is about

Do you think that is air you are breathing

[Image: 11055913_665689613535789_1783545366_n.jpg]

I know that I don't give a sh*t who private enterprises serve and don't serve. I don't have a douchy matrix quote and picture though.
04-01-2015 12:48 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
Gov. Pence had about thirty legal experts weigh in about probable legal problems involving the Indiana law.

Pence ignored them and signed the bill.

I will look for the article when I get back to my office.
04-01-2015 12:58 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #24
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:40 PM)nert Wrote:  I would assume that is true as well. Because I haven't read it - I have not commented on one side or the other. Most of the time, outrage seems to be immediate, overly-harsh, overly-simplified and mostly unfounded - and the truth is slowly revealed months later to no great reaction. The truth is generally less good, less bad, less interesting and a great deal more complicated than the hype. Hopefully, the MAC office has actually read it before making an announcement.

Yes, everyone should read the law, but also understand the context of whether that state has other laws in place to ensure that law isn't used in a discriminatory manner. That is the difference between the new Indiana law versus the federal law and other states that have RFRAs (such as Connecticut, Illinois, etc.).

At the same time, it's all too easy to say it's "not a big deal" if you're not a part of the group that's getting targeted. The big problem with social conservatives (and I say this as a lifelong Republican) is this continued belief that this issue is going to somehow go away or reverse itself. Nope - this issue isn't going away at all. As a fiscal conservative that is seeing us head down the path once again of fiscal messages getting drowned out by the social conservatives, I'm sick of it. The law is wrong on every level: morally and ethically wrong for trying to allow discrimination under the guise of "religious freedom", economically wrong for the forward-thinking businesses in Indiana that are trying to attract the young and educated talent that abhor these laws, spiritually wrong for Christians (where even if you believe that people are sinners, the very LAST thing that Jesus did was shun them, as evidenced by the fact that He specifically spoke to the outcasts of society), and politically wrong for the Republican Party that is too worried about winning primaries and not enough about the general election.

We might as well start moving the Clinton furniture back into the White House again if the Republicans seriously want to keep fighting the gay rights issue over the next year. The Supreme Court has actually been trying to do the GOP a favor by essentially giving the party political cover with its recent gay rights rulings (where Republican candidates could have placated the base by just pointing to the courts while not *actively* trying to curb gay rights in order to not make dumb statements that will haunt them in the general election), yet the social conservatives just don't get the big picture.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 01:06 PM by Frank the Tank.)
04-01-2015 01:05 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
Here is the letter. It was sent to the bill's author, not to Governor Pence:


http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/defaul...a_rfra.pdf
04-01-2015 01:20 PM
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EKUSteve Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
Here is the latest story on the fix....

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/polit.../70766920/
04-01-2015 02:29 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:48 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 12:42 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 12:32 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I just don't understand why you'd want to give your business to someone who hates you without knowing you or why you'd even want to deny someone business in the first place. If somebody denied me a service because of who I was, I'd just take my business elsewhere while saying "well, guess somebody else gets my money."

Do you really think that is what this is about

Do you think that is air you are breathing

[Image: 11055913_665689613535789_1783545366_n.jpg]

I know that I don't give a sh*t who private enterprises serve and don't serve. I don't have a douchy matrix quote and picture though.

[Image: SW_zpsb707rpai.jpg]
04-01-2015 02:34 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #28
Re: RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 02:29 PM)EKUSteve Wrote:  Here is the latest story on the fix....

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/polit.../70766920/

"does not authorize"

Land of the free home of the brave

Lol

I don't authorize you to do this but I don't have guts to say that I will prohibit it

Sheep
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 03:20 PM by shere khan.)
04-01-2015 03:20 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:23 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 11:48 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  That is incorrect - a lie told by those trying to excuse bigotry.

No other state, or the Federal Government has a similar law.

What part of it do you judge not to be similar?


http://www.indystar.com/story/news/polit.../70729888/


1 - extends to corporations
2 - lessens the burden of proof for claiming the exemption.
04-01-2015 03:29 PM
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Danger in Carolina Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
Pence and Co. got newsjacked. The political left is skillfully using newsjacking to push their agenda and catch conservative politicians off guard. This event is just one of several that has been high jacked to advance a progressive agenda by whipping up emotion in social media by altering the narrative. And we are all falling for it. Pence is caving and the Republican legislature is now crafting legislation to please leftist pressure groups. Mission accomplished for the Left - they now have offered a blueprint in how to pass legislation in a red state when they don't have a majority of the support.

These are the new rules for public relations and politics. Pence is done imho. He doesn't know what hit him. A more savvy politician would have been better prepared.

Look for this to be very common during the next political campaign. But also look for some politicians to be better at counter attacking these type of tactics.
04-01-2015 04:16 PM
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HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 11:10 AM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:00 AM)Maize Wrote:  Mike Pence opened up a huge can of worms for his State...

Nobody has taken the time to read what the law says. It is everything that is on the Federal legislation that Chuck Schumer created and the Dems and Bill Clinton signed into law. Along with 20 other states.
If they take the time to read, it allows religious freedom to be to say that they won't bake a wedding cake but they are not allow to discriminate against if the person just wanted a regular cake. I'd hope that if some Satanic couple wanted a wedding cake that baker will have the religious right to say no.

People are such sheep. It's almost sad

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Sure is. People are taught what to think instead of how to.

I'd be willing to bet 99% of the people "outraged" haven't read it.

This. Times 100.

As a student in college, I have seen this way too many times. Some of my peers worship the ground, some professors walk on and channel their "brainwaves" to think like them. Very scary. Of course, I have English professors who love to turn their classes into political and social landmines.

I'm pretty much the only conservative in the whole English department. Fun times.

(04-01-2015 04:16 PM)Danger in Carolina Wrote:  Pence and Co. got newsjacked. The political left is skillfully using newsjacking to push their agenda and catch conservative politicians off guard. This event is just one of several that has been high jacked to advance a progressive agenda by whipping up emotion in social media by altering the narrative. And we are all falling for it. Pence is caving and the Republican legislature is now crafting legislation to please leftist pressure groups. Mission accomplished for the Left - they now have offered a blueprint in how to pass legislation in a red state when they don't have a majority of the support.

These are the new rules for public relations and politics. Pence is done imho. He doesn't know what hit him. A more savvy politician would have been better prepared.

Look for this to be very common during the next political campaign. But also look for some politicians to be better at counter attacking these type of tactics.

It is media persecution. Plain and simple.

All you need to do (for any side) is take something out of context and BAM! it is all over social media and my generation loves their Twitter 140 characters social bites with the retweeting and hashtags.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 05:46 PM by HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine.)
04-01-2015 05:43 PM
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Post: #32
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 12:40 PM)nert Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 12:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 11:10 AM)shere khan Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:00 AM)Maize Wrote:  Mike Pence opened up a huge can of worms for his State...

Nobody has taken the time to read what the law says. It is everything that is on the Federal legislation that Chuck Schumer created and the Dems and Bill Clinton signed into law. Along with 20 other states.
If they take the time to read, it allows religious freedom to be to say that they won't bake a wedding cake but they are not allow to discriminate against if the person just wanted a regular cake. I'd hope that if some Satanic couple wanted a wedding cake that baker will have the religious right to say no.

People are such sheep. It's almost sad

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Sure is. People are taught what to think instead of how to.

I'd be willing to bet 99% of the people "outraged" haven't read it.

I would assume that is true as well. Because I haven't read it - I have not commented on one side or the other. Most of the time, outrage seems to be immediate, overly-harsh, overly-simplified and mostly unfounded - and the truth is slowly revealed months later to no great reaction. The truth is generally less good, less bad, less interesting and a great deal more complicated than the hype. Hopefully, the MAC office has actually read it before making an announcement.
Well said.
04-01-2015 06:06 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 01:05 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 12:40 PM)nert Wrote:  I would assume that is true as well. Because I haven't read it - I have not commented on one side or the other. Most of the time, outrage seems to be immediate, overly-harsh, overly-simplified and mostly unfounded - and the truth is slowly revealed months later to no great reaction. The truth is generally less good, less bad, less interesting and a great deal more complicated than the hype. Hopefully, the MAC office has actually read it before making an announcement.

Yes, everyone should read the law, but also understand the context of whether that state has other laws in place to ensure that law isn't used in a discriminatory manner. That is the difference between the new Indiana law versus the federal law and other states that have RFRAs (such as Connecticut, Illinois, etc.).

At the same time, it's all too easy to say it's "not a big deal" if you're not a part of the group that's getting targeted. The big problem with social conservatives (and I say this as a lifelong Republican) is this continued belief that this issue is going to somehow go away or reverse itself. Nope - this issue isn't going away at all. As a fiscal conservative that is seeing us head down the path once again of fiscal messages getting drowned out by the social conservatives, I'm sick of it. The law is wrong on every level: morally and ethically wrong for trying to allow discrimination under the guise of "religious freedom", economically wrong for the forward-thinking businesses in Indiana that are trying to attract the young and educated talent that abhor these laws, spiritually wrong for Christians (where even if you believe that people are sinners, the very LAST thing that Jesus did was shun them, as evidenced by the fact that He specifically spoke to the outcasts of society), and politically wrong for the Republican Party that is too worried about winning primaries and not enough about the general election.

We might as well start moving the Clinton furniture back into the White House again if the Republicans seriously want to keep fighting the gay rights issue over the next year. The Supreme Court has actually been trying to do the GOP a favor by essentially giving the party political cover with its recent gay rights rulings (where Republican candidates could have placated the base by just pointing to the courts while not *actively* trying to curb gay rights in order to not make dumb statements that will haunt them in the general election), yet the social conservatives just don't get the big picture.

I haven't read the law and don't have an opinion on whether Indiana is different and goes too far. This sort of thing is probably really tricky to write without going too far. I do find it interesting the MAC is effectively punishing Ball St., one of their members. But it REALLY IS about the wedding cake issue, not discrimination. There's a difference between serving gay customers and preparing a cake for a gay wedding. One is discrimination against people. One is not enabling a "thing" that you don't believe in. Getting these things rammed down people's throat is what upsets the social conservatives. Also comments like Frank's about it being "morally wrong" show a total lack of understanding of fundamentalist Christians and a hypocritical lack of tolerance.

Note I am not a fundamentalist, but I have friends who are. 04-cheers
04-01-2015 06:16 PM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
It seems that Indiana corrupted the original intent of the act. NPR has this report about how and why the act came to be. (Note: The bill was approved by a unanimous House and a near unanimous Senate(Jesse Helms, Harlan Matthews and Robert Byrd were the no votes).)
04-01-2015 06:42 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
I wonder why many that are so incensed about the Indiana law dont seem to be bothered by the fact that Indiana and many other states dont recognize same sex marriage.(florida, nevada, oregon texas etc)
Can we expect the MAC to withdraw from Michigan and Ohio for future business dealings?
UConn isnt sending Ollie to final 4 due to the perception that the law can lead to discrimination against homosexuals
Why dont they make a real statement and not send the womens team to the final 4 in Florida? A state where a gay man cant marry the person he loves?
04-01-2015 07:17 PM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
It's funny to see the mindless politically correct crowd rush to offend the 90% of Americans that are religious.
04-01-2015 07:20 PM
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Rabbit_in_Red Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
And yet roughly 57% of Americans favor same sex marriages. "Religious" does NOT = "intolerant"
04-01-2015 08:21 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 08:21 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  And yet roughly 57% of Americans favor same sex marriages. "Religious" does NOT = "intolerant"

Yet forcing someone to do something that is against their religion is?


When I was growing up there were two convenience stores near where I went to high school. One was run by a man who was friendly and knew us all by name, the other by a man who had a sign saying no more than two students could be in the store at the same time and we had to leave our bookbags outside on the sidewalk. He would follow you around the store and had a surly attitude towards everybody, but especially kids. We didn't protest, file a lawsuit, etc. we simply went to the other store after school. A few years after I graduated the grump's store closed because nobody wanted to go there. Last time I was back home the other store was still open, being run by the son of the man who ran it when I was in school.
04-01-2015 08:30 PM
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Post: #39
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 08:30 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 08:21 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  And yet roughly 57% of Americans favor same sex marriages. "Religious" does NOT = "intolerant"

Yet forcing someone to do something that is against their religion is?


When I was growing up there were two convenience stores near where I went to high school. One was run by a man who was friendly and knew us all by name, the other by a man who had a sign saying no more than two students could be in the store at the same time and we had to leave our bookbags outside on the sidewalk. He would follow you around the store and had a surly attitude towards everybody, but especially kids. We didn't protest, file a lawsuit, etc. we simply went to the other store after school. A few years after I graduated the grump's store closed because nobody wanted to go there. Last time I was back home the other store was still open, being run by the son of the man who ran it when I was in school.

That's how it's supposed to be in America. Unfortunately, some people want the feds to dictate what we do, what we say, who we associate with, etc.
04-01-2015 09:49 PM
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Post: #40
RE: The MAC has joined the Ban on the State of Indiana....
(04-01-2015 10:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(04-01-2015 10:00 AM)Maize Wrote:  Mike Pence opened up a huge can of worms for his State...

Nobody has taken the time to read what the law says. It is everything that is on the Federal legislation that Chuck Schumer created and the Dems and Bill Clinton signed into law. Along with 20 other states.
If they take the time to read, it allows religious freedom to be to say that they won't bake a wedding cake but they are not allow to discriminate against if the person just wanted a regular cake. I'd hope that if some Satanic couple wanted a wedding cake that baker will have the religious right to say no.

I know that libs are generally nailed on this board. I just don't understand why we as citizens care what is going on in other peoples lives to the point we would want to ban stuff. Even if it is a satanic wedding. I don't know....its just so dumb that its even a issue. You'd think there would be way more important things to worry about.

I don't pretend to be holier than thou, not have racist thoughts sometimes, and even homophobic ones sometimes. Im not proud of them, Im human...but Id like to think that my country is better than that, and affords the basic rights religious or not that I sometimes my slip from, because Im too short sighted to put myself in their point of view.

Im not trying to preach...and I know I am...and I will probably get blasted accordingly. But I read this stuff and it blows my mind how far out of touch with what I guess the rest of america is. I
04-01-2015 10:24 PM
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