I had responded to a thread earlier but this seesm warranted for a separate discussion.


http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/03/wake-...schedules/

“The ACC athletic directors have agreed that each ACC school will play a football non-conference opponent from the SEC, Big 10, PAC 12, Big 12 or Notre Dame or BYU annually,” Wellman wrote.

Wellman also addressed the rising cost of one-time “buy” games and said that he prefers series instead.

“The financial guarantees that non-conference opponents are receiving today for “buy games” have doubled and tripled from just a few years ago. Therefore, it is more realistic to play a home- and- away series against quality opponents than to “buy” one-time games.”

Meaning there will be less 1 and done games from the Mid to low tier of P5 conferences. This will hurt the G5 schools that depend on the 1 and done money games.

Just another factor that hurts any G5 program already maxing out their budget.

Man, why some schools on the outside don't scream for anti-trust...

This is a ploy for non-majors to take cuts for what little they make from these games, but, yeesh, the hubris...

(03-31-2015 04:39 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Man, why some schools on the outside don't scream for anti-trust...

This is a ploy for non-majors to take cuts for what little they make from these games, but, yeesh, the hubris...

Not really. Wake Forest is a pretty unusual P5 school, in that they have G5 level attendance. If they bring in Georgia Southern or Marshall or Temple or Colorado State, they can't pay them $500,000 or $1M or whatever from ticket revenue. So for Wake Forest, it makes sense to pay GSU or whoever back with a road game.

There aren't more than a handful of P5 schools where that's true. Just about everyone else is better off paying for a one-and-done and having 7 home games. Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Washington STate, Baylor, TCU, Oregon State are the only P5 schools with average attendance below 40,000 from 1998-2011. For those schools, a 7th home game might not be worth it. (I'm using old data because I put it in Excel back during the realignment debates. Things change etc etc.)

It hurts the lower budget G5s/FCS teams that rely on pay games, but it seems to help the upper budget G5s, who are still getting home-and-away series.

(03-31-2015 04:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 04:39 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Man, why some schools on the outside don't scream for anti-trust...

This is a ploy for non-majors to take cuts for what little they make from these games, but, yeesh, the hubris...

Not really. Wake Forest is a pretty unusual P5 school, in that they have G5 level attendance. If they bring in Georgia Southern or Marshall or Temple or Colorado State, they can't pay them $500,000 or $1M or whatever from ticket revenue. So for Wake Forest, it makes sense to pay GSU or whoever back with a road game.

There aren't more than a handful of P5 schools where that's true. Just about everyone else is better off paying for a one-and-done and having 7 home games. Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Washington STate, Baylor, TCU, Oregon State are the only P5 schools with average attendance below 40,000 from 1998-2011. For those schools, a 7th home game might not be worth it. (I'm using old data because I put it in Excel back during the realignment debates. Things change etc etc.)

Wake Forest played a home and home with ULM and lost both ends of it.

Wake is not a typical P5.

AState got Mizzou signed before Mizzou did their premium seating expansion because they couldn't afford to load the schedules with buy games.

Schools are going to follow their financial interest. If you can buy wins at home you will. If the CFP formula ends up rewarding going off campus, schools will schedule winnable road games to angle for the CFP. If you can't afford to buy games you will play home and home and if you are getting your head handed to you in non-conference road games, you will try to find someone easier to play home and home.

(03-31-2015 04:52 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  It hurts the lower budget G5s/FCS teams that rely on pay games, but it seems to help the upper budget G5s, who are still getting home-and-away series.

This ^

If you present as a credible opponent that helps their resume but are still a game they expect to win even on the road, scheduling good home and home is easy.

Quick summary:

Wake forest and all but about 20 schools don't wanna pay to have their asses kicked. Maybe wake can play army twice a year


Bwahahaha. Sheep gonna sheep

(03-31-2015 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wellman also addressed the rising cost of one-time “buy” games and said that he prefers series instead.

“The financial guarantees that non-conference opponents are receiving today for “buy games” have doubled and tripled from just a few years ago. Therefore, it is more realistic to play a home- and- away series against quality opponents than to “buy” one-time games.”

It's certainly more realistic for Wake Forest. Whether the buy-game payouts are "realistic" depends on the home team's game-day revenue. Just as a guess, the home-game revenue for Michigan or Alabama (including the pro-rated portion of the mandatory "donations" needed to purchase certain season tickets) is at least 6 to 8 times as much as that for Wake Forest. So, the amount paid by Alabama to a G5 team is a much smaller percentage of Bama's profit, and they can easily afford to pay more.

Florida Atlantic got $1 million to play at Alabama in 2014, but if that's what FAU would demand to play at Wake Forest, then it's obvious why Wake would go in another direction.

The free market will adjust, one way or another. Either it will be more profitable for P5 teams to schedule more home/home non-conference series, or it will be more profitable to schedule buy games. The answer will vary from team to team, mostly depending on home-game revenue as with the Wake/Alabama comparison.

This is nothing but spin and BS to make the ACC look good. Notre dame will play 5 ACC teams. Clemson/SCar, UGA/GT, UK/Louisville , FSU/Florida arleady play every year. So really, not much changes and the G5 money game rate continues to increase.

After all of the above was known and in place, Clemson signs a game with Ga Southern for over a million.

In summary, the quote means Wake and Duke are being discouraged from scheduling and losing to Troy and ULM etc.

I don't see how the guarantee's going from between $400K and $600K to between $1 million and $1.5 million is anything but a boon for the G5. Sure some schools will find it more financially viable to schedule a home and home with a more attractive opponent which means less total G5 vs P5 games played, but the revenues are still going up for the G5.

Ideally a P5 football schedule should be

10 conference games, 5 home, 5 away

1 ooc game against same P5 traditional rival every year. Home 1 year, on the road in alternating years.

1 ooc game against a P5 non-traditional rival 2 times in 4 years. Home and away or neutral site.

1 ooc buy game against G5 team 2 times in 4 years. Home both years.

End result. 6 home games, 6 road games, except once every 4 years, there are 7 home games.

(03-31-2015 04:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Wellman also addressed the rising cost of one-time “buy” games and said that he prefers series instead.

“The financial guarantees that non-conference opponents are receiving today for “buy games” have doubled and tripled from just a few years ago. Therefore, it is more realistic to play a home- and- away series against quality opponents than to “buy” one-time games.”

Meaning there will be less 1 and done games from the Mid to low tier of P5 conferences. This will hurt the G5 schools that depend on the 1 and done money games.

I wouldn't take that to mean too much. Louisville does the same thing. Even when playing G5 teams, they just do home and home's with them instead of paying them. Wake has already done this in the past. It really is going back to the way things used to be.

How do conference channels play into this? Seems like Wake vs FCS would be on an "ACCN" if it existed. What about the impact a "conference channel" has on OOC scheduling?

Seems like a home and home would be arranged to help the Networks.

(03-31-2015 06:24 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  This is nothing but spin and BS to make the ACC look good. Notre dame will play 5 ACC teams. Clemson/SCar, UGA/GT, UK/Louisville , FSU/Florida arleady play every year. So really, not much changes and the G5 money game rate continues to increase.

After all of the above was known and in place, Clemson signs a game with Ga Southern for over a million.

In summary, the quote means Wake and Duke are being discouraged from scheduling and losing to Troy and ULM etc.

Could Wake Forest/Vanderbilt be revived? That series died with Kentucky/Louisville being moved to the end of the season.

Vandy pops back up on the schedule in 2022 and 2023.

(03-31-2015 06:24 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  This is nothing but spin and BS to make the ACC look good. Notre dame will play 5 ACC teams. Clemson/SCar, UGA/GT, UK/Louisville , FSU/Florida arleady play every year. So really, not much changes and the G5 money game rate continues to increase.

After all of the above was known and in place, Clemson signs a game with Ga Southern for over a million.

In summary, the quote means Wake and Duke are being discouraged from scheduling and losing to Troy and ULM etc.

All it means is Wake will play home and home with someone rather buying a one time game. This was part of an announcement where Wake signed a six year home and home with Army.

Why this board pays so much attention to who Wake schedules for football is bizarre.

(03-31-2015 06:24 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  This is nothing but spin and BS to make the ACC look good. Notre dame will play 5 ACC teams. Clemson/SCar, UGA/GT, UK/Louisville , FSU/Florida arleady play every year. So really, not much changes and the G5 money game rate continues to increase.

After all of the above was known and in place, Clemson signs a game with Ga Southern for over a million.

In summary, the quote means Wake and Duke are being discouraged from scheduling and losing to Troy and ULM etc.

Primarily because Clemson knows it can schedule the game with Georgia Southern, kick your ass and make a profit.


Clemson is in the ACC with Wake but Clemson is not Wake.

(03-31-2015 10:17 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(03-31-2015 06:24 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  This is nothing but spin and BS to make the ACC look good. Notre dame will play 5 ACC teams. Clemson/SCar, UGA/GT, UK/Louisville , FSU/Florida arleady play every year. So really, not much changes and the G5 money game rate continues to increase.

After all of the above was known and in place, Clemson signs a game with Ga Southern for over a million.

In summary, the quote means Wake and Duke are being discouraged from scheduling and losing to Troy and ULM etc.

All it means is Wake will play home and home with someone rather buying a one time game. This was part of an announcement where Wake signed a six year home and home with Army.

Why this board pays so much attention to who Wake schedules for football is bizarre.

Thjis board has a wildly disproportionate share of "realignment action junkies", who are twitching for any sign of movement, and schools dropping from FBS will do.

And this board has a lot of G5 fans, looking to see if they can (still) get P5 home-and-homes.

I don't think the math has changed too much for G5 programs in getting home and homes with the P5.

Schools like Cincinnati, Houston, East Carolina which have been proficient at lining up the home and home with a power conference club haven't lost any leverage because when the P5 turns to the G5 that is where they will start.

The model for a low end P5 is going to be a low end 1-1 with another low end P5, a 1-1 with a high end G5, and money games against an FCS school and a low end G5.

For the high end G5 its going to be a 1-1 with a low end P5, 1-1 with a high end G5, 1-1 with a low end G5 and a money game against an FCS school. That means the high end G5 should at least start 2-2 and have a chance to go 4-0 reasonably on a schedule. Maybe if they are like Cincinnati or ECU they can get 2 low end P5s on the schedule to spice up the ticket sales.