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A True American Conference
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #21
RE: A True American Conference
Anybody pitching the coast-2-coast option with Boise State as an anchor for it are not realizing that Boise made 3.5 million in TV money last year out of the MWC because of the bonus pool.

That is almost double what Boise could make in the American and not have all those lousy plane rides. So even if you could beef the American to a coast-2-coast format I doubt the per school payout would exceed what they are making now.

I first suggested a few months ago that the Independence might strike back as a significant force and first its UMass, NMSU and Idaho indy and next you are hearing UConn or Boise wants indy too if they think they can make more money doing it than sitting in a G5.
03-30-2015 11:09 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #22
RE: A True American Conference
(03-30-2015 11:09 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Anybody pitching the coast-2-coast option with Boise State as an anchor for it are not realizing that Boise made 3.5 million in TV money last year out of the MWC because of the bonus pool.

That is almost double what Boise could make in the American and not have all those lousy plane rides. So even if you could beef the American to a coast-2-coast format I doubt the per school payout would exceed what they are making now.

I first suggested a few months ago that the Independence might strike back as a significant force and first its UMass, NMSU and Idaho indy and next you are hearing UConn or Boise wants indy too if they think they can make more money doing it than sitting in a G5.

A) I think a national conference would pay more than the current AAC payout.

B) Many schools in the MW made less than Boise

C) Boise might not earn much more, but most of the rest of the schools in the MW would benefit greatly by the switch. So Boise wouldn't be as valuable playing in a greatly diminished MW when the overall contract is reduced. Given that likely future, Boise might prefer to switch as well. Besides, the nationwide conference would still do just fine without a school in Idaho. Boise would be welcome, but they are not essential. The key is to be nationwide with most of the top G5 brands. If you miss one or two---so be it.

d) The divisional aspect of the conference would eliminate most of the much ballyhooed travel issues.
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2015 11:19 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-30-2015 11:13 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #23
RE: A True American Conference
(03-30-2015 11:09 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Anybody pitching the coast-2-coast option with Boise State as an anchor for it are not realizing that Boise made 3.5 million in TV money last year out of the MWC because of the bonus pool.

That is almost double what Boise could make in the American and not have all those lousy plane rides. So even if you could beef the American to a coast-2-coast format I doubt the per school payout would exceed what they are making now.

I first suggested a few months ago that the Independence might strike back as a significant force and first its UMass, NMSU and Idaho indy and next you are hearing UConn or Boise wants indy too if they think they can make more money doing it than sitting in a G5.

My projection of the American is with Boise but it is also with SDSU and BYU out of the West. Those teams also earn credits. Plane rides? Not if you go with a 20 team, four division conference. You have five teams in your division and then you play one game against each other division. That means during some years they only have ONE long plane trip. It's not a big deal and yet with very little long travel they have their schedule strength boosted by those cross division games because it ties them all together.

It's definitely possible but you are right in regards to the negatives of that three division idea and the travel involved.

A 20 team AAC has the best of both worlds. Strong regional rivalries, national coverage with limited long distance travel and the ability to run a tournament similar to what the Majors will be doing when they move to four divisions.

The 20 team four division concept is a winner for the AAC.
03-30-2015 11:15 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #24
RE: A True American Conference
(03-30-2015 11:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-30-2015 11:09 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Anybody pitching the coast-2-coast option with Boise State as an anchor for it are not realizing that Boise made 3.5 million in TV money last year out of the MWC because of the bonus pool.

That is almost double what Boise could make in the American and not have all those lousy plane rides. So even if you could beef the American to a coast-2-coast format I doubt the per school payout would exceed what they are making now.

I first suggested a few months ago that the Independence might strike back as a significant force and first its UMass, NMSU and Idaho indy and next you are hearing UConn or Boise wants indy too if they think they can make more money doing it than sitting in a G5.

A) I think a national conference would pay more than the current AAC payout.

B) Many schools in the MW made less than Boise

C) Boise might not earn much more, but most of the rest of the schools in the MW would benefit greatly by the switch. So Boise wouldn't be as valuable playing in a greatly diminished MW when the overall contract is reduced. Given that likely future, Boise might prefer to switch as well. Besides, the nationwide conference would still do just fine without a school in Idaho. Boise would be welcome, but they are not essential. The key is to be nationwide with most of the top G5 brands. If you miss one or two---so be it.

d) The divisional aspect of the conference would eliminate most of the much ballyhooed travel issues.

03-phew

1) For Boise to be involved the American grande would have to project at least double. Boise hung in the BE for a while thinking they could get 6-7 million but at 3-4 they were willing to take their chances with the MWC.

2) Without Boise State in the American Grande you don't have the strongest G5 conference. The conference with Boise State is the strongest G5 conference. Remember how Boise carried the hapless WAC all by themselves, well they could do that with any other group of schools....NMSU and Idaho again if they wanted.

3) Bowls are better in smaller regional conferences when you can line up games against different regions rather than playing CUSA and SBC 3 times a piece in bowl games.

4) The G5 leagues would be better with 10-12 in FB and 14-16 in basketball. This way you don't over saturate football while doubling down in basketball within the footprint.
03-30-2015 11:39 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #25
RE: A True American Conference
(03-30-2015 09:50 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I don't think the Academies will be able to keep up with that effort nor will they want to. That is why the inclusion of the academies is a nice feeling ideal but I don't think it is very realistic.

I believe the academies would be an important part of the New American.

1) Bringing the three military academies together and the Commander-In-Chief trophy into a single conference is tremendous branding for the AMERICAN conference!

2) 2014 Army/Navy game = 4.1 TV rating and 2014 Air Force/Army game = 1.1 TV rating. Those were among the best television ratings for any college football games that did not involve a Power 5 institution. To have the Commander-In-Chief trophy winner eligible for a possible conference championship berth would keep TV eye balls on the academies.

3) Army, Navy, and Air Force already play each other annually, so the Military division is low-hanging fruit. But, the military academies could still fit in well as part of the 20-team conference with four 5-team divisions.

4) Not only do the academies play each other:
- Air Force already plays most of the teams in the West,
- Navy will annually play almost all of the teams in the Central (starting this September),
- Army fits in the East geography and has recent matchups with UConn and Temple.

So, only minor changes to the academies' current scheduling philosophies. In fact, Air Force and Navy would have more scheduling flexibility to play the Big Boys under the proposed scenario than the Fall 2015 status quo.

Kittonhead Wrote:  1) For Boise to be involved the American grande would have to project at least double. Boise hung in the BE for a while thinking they could get 6-7 million but at 3-4 they were willing to take their chances with the MWC.

2) Without Boise State in the American Grande you don't have the strongest G5 conference. The conference with Boise State is the strongest G5 conference. Remember how Boise carried the hapless WAC all by themselves, well they could do that with any other group of schools....NMSU and Idaho again if they wanted.

Totally agree that including Boise St. would make this the strongest G5 conference, without hesitation. They grab ratings and win BCS/NY6 bowl games.

However, I don't think Boise St. would need to see their revenue double to be tempted to join. If SDSU, Air Force, Colorado St., Fresno St., and UNLV are leaving the MWC, Boise St. ain't hangin' around in the MWC with Nevada and Utah St.

And, the New American would grab everyone better paying TV contracts than either the MWC or AAC currently get on their own.

Kittonhead Wrote:  3) Bowls are better in smaller regional conferences when you can line up games against different regions rather than playing CUSA and SBC 3 times a piece in bowl games.

4) The G5 leagues would be better with 10-12 in FB and 14-16 in basketball. This way you don't over saturate football while doubling down in basketball within the footprint.

This is a pretty sweet lineup:

Bowl Games:
- NY6 (Fiesta, Peach, or Cotton) - almost de facto for American Champ
- Military v. ACC
- Las Vegas v. PAC 12
- Birmingham v. SEC
- St. Petersburg v. ACC
- Armed Forces v. Big 12
- Poinsettia v. MWC
- Miami Beach v. C-USA
- Bahamas v. MAC
- Little Rock (apparently) v. Sun Belt
- Famous Idaho Potato v. MAC
- New Orleans v. Sun Belt
- Alternate: Cactus Bowl (v. Big 12/PAC 12) and Independence Bowl (v. SEC/ACC)

Six bowl games against Power conference opponents in varied corners of the country - with the possibility of Eight, if serving as an alternate. Lower bowl affiliations also in varied corners of the country, for good local matchups against the C-USA, Sun Belt, and MWC leftovers.
03-31-2015 07:17 PM
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UNLVFan90 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: A True American Conference
It's funny seeing people trying to think of ways to kill the MWC. I guarantee during the next round of expansion, the Mountain West will be one of the winners.
03-31-2015 07:24 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: A True American Conference
(03-30-2015 11:39 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(03-30-2015 11:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-30-2015 11:09 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Anybody pitching the coast-2-coast option with Boise State as an anchor for it are not realizing that Boise made 3.5 million in TV money last year out of the MWC because of the bonus pool.

That is almost double what Boise could make in the American and not have all those lousy plane rides. So even if you could beef the American to a coast-2-coast format I doubt the per school payout would exceed what they are making now.

I first suggested a few months ago that the Independence might strike back as a significant force and first its UMass, NMSU and Idaho indy and next you are hearing UConn or Boise wants indy too if they think they can make more money doing it than sitting in a G5.

A) I think a national conference would pay more than the current AAC payout.

B) Many schools in the MW made less than Boise

C) Boise might not earn much more, but most of the rest of the schools in the MW would benefit greatly by the switch. So Boise wouldn't be as valuable playing in a greatly diminished MW when the overall contract is reduced. Given that likely future, Boise might prefer to switch as well. Besides, the nationwide conference would still do just fine without a school in Idaho. Boise would be welcome, but they are not essential. The key is to be nationwide with most of the top G5 brands. If you miss one or two---so be it.

d) The divisional aspect of the conference would eliminate most of the much ballyhooed travel issues.

03-phew

1) For Boise to be involved the American grande would have to project at least double. Boise hung in the BE for a while thinking they could get 6-7 million but at 3-4 they were willing to take their chances with the MWC.

2) Without Boise State in the American Grande you don't have the strongest G5 conference. The conference with Boise State is the strongest G5 conference. Remember how Boise carried the hapless WAC all by themselves, well they could do that with any other group of schools....NMSU and Idaho again if they wanted.

3) Bowls are better in smaller regional conferences when you can line up games against different regions rather than playing CUSA and SBC 3 times a piece in bowl games.

4) The G5 leagues would be better with 10-12 in FB and 14-16 in basketball. This way you don't over saturate football while doubling down in basketball within the footprint.

Your assuming Boise's income remains the same when they majority of the MW leaves. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Frankly, I cant see how it could stay the same.
03-31-2015 07:25 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #28
RE: A True American Conference
Sorry but that was tried with cusa & mw merger when cusa was basically what the aac is now. There was no pot of gold with that conference and none with this concept.
03-31-2015 08:43 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #29
RE: A True American Conference
(03-31-2015 08:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Sorry but that was tried with cusa & mw merger when cusa was basically what the aac is now. There was no pot of gold with that conference and none with this concept.

Nope. It was tried AFTER the Houston, UCF, SMU, and Memphis left. During the negotiations Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa also defected.

Whats being discussed has NEVER been tried. The closest thing was the Big East western wing---but that was not all-sports and did not include enough teams to really have a solid western component. Frankly, I think it would be fun to play in a something like that. The divisions give a regional feel for the individual teams while the huge footprint gives fans a reason to care about games not involving their team in far away locations. Basically, you are combining enough fan bases that the total audience might have some real value. Better yet, since the footprint is nationwide, the ratings for a national network should be improved.

As for the "pot of gold". Well, we KNOW there is no pot of gold for the current regional models. My guess is this would initially get just a slight bump, but not a lot. However, if the synergies I would expect develop, the ratings could very well allow the conference to bag a significant contract when renegotiation time roles around. I think the concept would have to go through a couple of contract cycles to get to its full valuation (which I think might be as much has half what power conferences make).
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2015 09:41 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-31-2015 09:01 PM
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Post: #30
RE: A True American Conference
Red, White and Blue Divisions? That's not the Wac-16, that's C-USA 1.0 and that has been tried and failed, or better put, altered.

Just grab the best 8 or 9 nationally relevant programs and perhaps an academic power but athletic lightweight and call it a day. Maybe that elevates everyone where they need to go.
03-31-2015 09:29 PM
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On To Victory Offline
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Post: #31
RE: A True American Conference
Cool idea. I just don't see realignment being finished, and the chance for some schools to move up. Until that dust settles, I doubt anything like this could take place. But I like the idea a lot. Good stuff!
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2015 09:45 PM by On To Victory.)
03-31-2015 09:40 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #32
RE: A True American Conference
(03-31-2015 07:17 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(03-30-2015 09:50 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I don't think the Academies will be able to keep up with that effort nor will they want to. That is why the inclusion of the academies is a nice feeling ideal but I don't think it is very realistic.

I believe the academies would be an important part of the New American.

1) Bringing the three military academies together and the Commander-In-Chief trophy into a single conference is tremendous branding for the AMERICAN conference!

2) 2014 Army/Navy game = 4.1 TV rating and 2014 Air Force/Army game = 1.1 TV rating. Those were among the best television ratings for any college football games that did not involve a Power 5 institution. To have the Commander-In-Chief trophy winner eligible for a possible conference championship berth would keep TV eye balls on the academies.

3) Army, Navy, and Air Force already play each other annually, so the Military division is low-hanging fruit. But, the military academies could still fit in well as part of the 20-team conference with four 5-team divisions.

4) Not only do the academies play each other:
- Air Force already plays most of the teams in the West,
- Navy will annually play almost all of the teams in the Central (starting this September),
- Army fits in the East geography and has recent matchups with UConn and Temple.

So, only minor changes to the academies' current scheduling philosophies. In fact, Air Force and Navy would have more scheduling flexibility to play the Big Boys under the proposed scenario than the Fall 2015 status quo.

Sorry but you evaded the most important point of why the Academies themselves wouldn't want to be with the AAC. The AAC is going to become much, much more. That means cost. The academies don't need conference championships or national championships or even conference tournaments for that matter. They just need a few great match ups during the season to use for their recruiting and morale boosting.

They will be looked at just as strongly as the AAC even if they maintain that independent status. That is already being told to us by individual conferences as the roll out of the plan becomes more and more compartmentalized.

It's not about whether or not they fit. It's not about whether or not they would be invited.

It's about the fact that they are not interested in this debacle of monetized amateur sports. The Academies would rather be Independent if they could still have those particular match ups that they desire.

They don't want that deal. Army getting their "accreditation" was a bright neon sign of direction for Navy and Air Force.
03-31-2015 10:04 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #33
RE: A True American Conference
I like the original idea, but keep the academies out and limit it to 14 schools and change some of the proposed teams

American west
BYU, Boise, SDSU, Fresno, CSU, UNLV, New Mexico

American east
Uconn, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU

But other than that, its a good idea
04-01-2015 11:26 AM
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Post: #34
RE: A True American Conference
(04-01-2015 11:26 AM)goofus Wrote:  I like the original idea, but keep the academies out and limit it to 14 schools and change some of the proposed teams

American west
BYU, Boise, SDSU, Fresno, CSU, UNLV, New Mexico

American east
Uconn, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU

But other than that, its a good idea
UNLV over NIU? Pfftt
04-01-2015 01:21 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #35
RE: A True American Conference
(03-31-2015 10:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Sorry but you evaded the most important point of why the Academies themselves wouldn't want to be with the AAC. The AAC is going to become much, much more. That means cost. The academies don't need conference championships or national championships or even conference tournaments for that matter. They just need a few great match ups during the season to use for their recruiting and morale boosting.

They will be looked at just as strongly as the AAC even if they maintain that independent status. That is already being told to us by individual conferences as the roll out of the plan becomes more and more compartmentalized.

It's not about whether or not they fit. It's not about whether or not they would be invited.

It's about the fact that they are not interested in this debacle of monetized amateur sports. The Academies would rather be Independent if they could still have those particular match ups that they desire.

They don't want that deal. Army getting their "accreditation" was a bright neon sign of direction for Navy and Air Force.

I guess I'm not really understanding your points. Are you focusing on Olympic sports? If so, I agree that Navy and Army would likely participate for football only and keep their Olympic sports in the Patriot League - just like the current Navy-AAC relationship.

Otherwise, reality is on my side. Starting in Fall 2015, both Air Force and Navy will be in G5 conferences that host conference championship games.

Navy will be in the AAC. No invitation needed. They're already in. By its own choice, Navy will be in a division with teams from the CENTRAL time zone. Navy preferred road games in TEXAS.

Air Force has a long history of schedules filled with the teams in the new American West division. The invitation here would simply be - do you prefer to play Wyoming, New Mexico, and Utah St. or Colorado St., BYU, and Boise St.?

Army just added two MORE games to their series with HAWAII, so that they play in HONOLULU in 2019 and 2021. West Point, New York to Honolulu is about as long as a road trip as you can get. New York to Dublin, Ireland is actually about half the distance. Army already has Temple and UConn on future schedules - as well as multiple road games in North Carolina, Illinois, Texas, Ohio, and California (all "New American" states).

But, for some reason, you don't think the academies would want to be part of the club in which they are already members. Does not compute.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 01:46 PM by YNot.)
04-01-2015 01:32 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #36
RE: A True American Conference
(04-01-2015 11:26 AM)goofus Wrote:  I like the original idea, but keep the academies out and limit it to 14 schools and change some of the proposed teams

American west
BYU, Boise, SDSU, Fresno, CSU, UNLV, New Mexico

American east
Uconn, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU

But other than that, its a good idea

The New American proposal works because it doesn't require too many major changes. The AAC conference is already in place, including the East and Central divisions, for the most part. The AAC already has a commissioner, a league office, and TV and bowl contracts. Nothing new to event. You don't have to start from scratch. You build on and improve what is already started.

Plus, the military academies already play each other, as do the West division institutions. BYU and NIU would be the only newbies - and BYU has history with the West division.

Another workable solution would be four 5-team divisions and a scheduling/TV deal with Army.

EAST
Cincinnati
Navy (prefers road games in Texas)
NIU
Temple
UConn

SOUTH
ECU
Memphis
Tulane
UCF
USF

CENTRAL
Air Force (probably prefers West division opponents)
Colorado St. (probably prefers West division opponents)
Houston
SMU
Tulsa

WEST
Boise St.
BYU
Fresno St.
SDSU
UNLV

Air Force-Navy would be a protected rivalry, but otherwise, play 4 in-division games and rotate the other 4 or 5 games through the other 15 institutions.

IMO, however, the Red, White, Blue, and Stars&Stripes Divisions from the original New American proposal allow for lighter travel and more regionality - while bringing the benefits of the national American conference.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015 01:47 PM by YNot.)
04-01-2015 01:44 PM
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Post: #37
RE: A True American Conference
16 all sports members, 18 football members. Round robin in football with no cross until the championship game...

West - Houston, Fresno, Boise, UNLV, CSU, AFA, UNM, BYU, Hawaii (football only)
East - UConn, ECU, USF, UCF, Memphis, UC, Tulsa, SMU, Navy (football only)

Yes, I cut Tulane.
04-01-2015 01:48 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #38
RE: A True American Conference
(03-31-2015 09:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  As for the "pot of gold". Well, we KNOW there is no pot of gold for the current regional models. My guess is this would initially get just a slight bump, but not a lot. However, if the synergies I would expect develop, the ratings could very well allow the conference to bag a significant contract when renegotiation time roles around. I think the concept would have to go through a couple of contract cycles to get to its full valuation (which I think might be as much has half what power conferences make).

With 21 teams, the New American would have plenty of inventory for Thursday and Friday broadcasts (for exposure) and the regional divisions increase the chances of quality matchups and provide Saturday inventory from noon Eastern until 11 pm Pacific.

The bowl lineup provides enough regionality combined with P5 opponents such that you could assemble some really nice bowl matchups.

I don't know if that = pot o' gold, but it would definitely give everyone involved a nice bump up from the status quo.

And, it would be a lot more exciting than the current status quo.
04-01-2015 01:56 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #39
RE: A True American Conference
(04-01-2015 01:48 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  16 all sports members, 18 football members. Round robin in football with no cross until the championship game...

West - Houston, Fresno, Boise, UNLV, CSU, AFA, UNM, BYU, Hawaii (football only)
East - UConn, ECU, USF, UCF, Memphis, UC, Tulsa, SMU, Navy (football only)

Yes, I cut Tulane.

And Temple.

And, no cross-over games unless you play more than 8 conference games. That removes a main selling point for the expansion.
04-01-2015 02:00 PM
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Post: #40
RE: A True American Conference
Good idea, but absolutely no way BYU and Army join this conference...they're P5 now

It should happen though, but on a much smaller scale....probably start with 8 teams.

Boise State
Cincinnati
UConn
UCF
Houston


and go from there....those 5 schools are P5-type schools right now

maybe add San Diego State, East Carolina, and Colorado State

stay away from academies and small private schools
04-01-2015 02:58 PM
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