(04-23-2015 01:28 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:29 PM)buc73 Wrote:  Juco, transfer, one and done, fr, soph, jr. senior, who really cares if the team is winning.

Fans support winners. Fans don't care about the players classification.

Let's leave the recruiting to Coach Forbes. If he doesn't win, then the naysayers can have their say.

The players translate to winning. Teams built with a high number of JUCO players have a shelf life and a ceiling. It's been proven over and over. Teams that win on a CONSISTENT high basis aren't built with a high number of JUCO players.

It is especially relevant at the mid-major level where the talent level isn't as high and 99% of high school players stay all 4 years. A 4 year yield is higher than a 2 year yield. You get a better player and a more consistent product on the floor year after year after year.

Teams built with a high number of JUCOs are historically episodic.

Wichita State is the model. Their Final Four run had seven JUCO guys. Now, they don't have to recruit as many because they have built a brand. It's never a bad thing to sprinkle them in because they are typically more developed and in most cases more mature, physically and mentally. You are always going to have guys like O'Field, Pigram, or Chris Jones (who Forbes recruited and was NJCAA POTY) that can't qualify out of high school. You would rather have them on your team than someone elses.

If you mean Courtney Pigram bad example he was not a JUCO

(04-23-2015 02:56 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  If you mean Courtney Pigram bad example he was not a JUCO

Wasn't academically eligible, he was a Prop 48, like O'Field. You obviously didn't understand my point.

Whether CP was a prop 48 or not he was not a JUCO so not relevant to the discussion. He was a four year player from the start. My point is not about academic standards. I'm well aware that we don't bring athletes in to be scholars.

The point is, building a squad with numerous JUCO players has deminishing returns. I'm not anti-JUCO, they have their place in a limited capacity. Loading class after class with JUCOs is not a recipe for consistent success. You end up with a one or two year blip then it's down to the cellar in most cases.

(04-23-2015 03:46 PM)Etsubuc20 Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 02:56 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  If you mean Courtney Pigram bad example he was not a JUCO

Wasn't academically eligible, he was a Prop 48, like O'Field. You obviously didn't understand my point.

Yep, but I would say I don't see your point. A Prop 48 players has zero to do with a discussion about JUCO players, 2 years vs 4 years.

(04-23-2015 04:15 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  The point is, building a squad with numerous JUCO players has deminishing returns. I'm not anti-JUCO, they have their place in a limited capacity. Loading class after class with JUCOs is not a recipe for consistent success. You end up with a one or two year blip then it's down to the cellar in most cases.

It's been discussed here before but ETSU's history with Juco's show that they typically take a year to make a big impact. So we only get one "good" year with them. Those exceptions are Rodney English, Kevin Tiggs, Jason Niblett and Jalen Riley. I might be missing a few but those are the ones that come to mind. Of course all of those guys were under a different coaching staff. So if Forbes can bring in JUCO's that make a big impact right away then great and I know he has a better connection to the JUCO world than some of our past coaches did.

(04-23-2015 04:26 PM)Bucster Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 04:15 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  The point is, building a squad with numerous JUCO players has deminishing returns. I'm not anti-JUCO, they have their place in a limited capacity. Loading class after class with JUCOs is not a recipe for consistent success. You end up with a one or two year blip then it's down to the cellar in most cases.

It's been discussed here before but ETSU's history with Juco's show that they typically take a year to make a big impact. So we only get one "good" year with them. Those exceptions are Rodney English, Kevin Tiggs, Jason Niblett and Jalen Riley. I might be missing a few but those are the ones that come to mind. Of course all of those guys were under a different coaching staff. So if Forbes can bring in JUCO's that make a big impact right away then great and I know he has a better connection to the JUCO world than some of our past coaches did.

Hunter Harris was very good on a bad team. I do think you will see a big difference in the kind of JUCO players that are brought in. I doubt Forbes will wait to the last second and pick up a Darius Forrest or Leonard Smith. My point is you do not pass on a player that can help your team even if you are only getting two years, like Duke or Kentucky with one and dones. But I guess they don't fair too well with that strategy.

Forbes has an in with a perennial JUCO powerhouse. It's an advantage he would be well served to use.

(04-23-2015 04:35 PM)Etsubuc20 Wrote:  Hunter Harris was very good on a bad team. I do think you will see a big difference in the kind of JUCO players that are brought in. I doubt Forbes will wait to the last second and pick up a Darius Forrest or Leonard Smith. My point is you do not pass on a player that can help your team even if you are only getting two years, like Duke or Kentucky with one and dones. But I guess they don't fair too well with that strategy.

Forbes has an in with a perennial JUCO powerhouse. It's an advantage he would be well served to use.

No one is saying don't recruit JUCO's (at least none I have seen) and most have agreed that this year we need an infusion of experienced players who can come in and contribute this year. Like you said "sprinkle some in" (of course you then go on and use the Shockers have 7 JUCO players, a bit more then a sprinkle). One of the things I like about going to the games is watching the players develop over time, get to know them and cheer for them as their career at ETSU advances, Think about it, most of the beloved players in ETSU lore are 4 year guys.

I'm just happy to see Hunter Harris mentioned. Loved that kid.

(04-23-2015 09:53 PM)CaptainJackAubrey Wrote:  I'm just happy to see Hunter Harris mentioned. Loved that kid.

(04-23-2015 05:07 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 04:35 PM)Etsubuc20 Wrote:  Hunter Harris was very good on a bad team. I do think you will see a big difference in the kind of JUCO players that are brought in. I doubt Forbes will wait to the last second and pick up a Darius Forrest or Leonard Smith. My point is you do not pass on a player that can help your team even if you are only getting two years, like Duke or Kentucky with one and dones. But I guess they don't fair too well with that strategy.

Forbes has an in with a perennial JUCO powerhouse. It's an advantage he would be well served to use.

No one is saying don't recruit JUCO's (at least none I have seen) and most have agreed that this year we need an infusion of experienced players who can come in and contribute this year. Like you said "sprinkle some in" (of course you then go on and use the Shockers have 7 JUCO players, a bit more then a sprinkle). One of the things I like about going to the games is watching the players develop over time, get to know them and cheer for them as their career at ETSU advances, Think about it, most of the beloved players in ETSU lore are 4 year guys.

^^^^

(04-23-2015 09:53 PM)CaptainJackAubrey Wrote:  I'm just happy to see Hunter Harris mentioned. Loved that kid.

One of the nicest people I've met in my life. If had played basketball in high school, there's no telling how far he would've gone.

Here is a short interview Coach Forbes did with Andre Whitehead of TNprephoops.com

Coach Forbes comes on at 17:20

GO BUCS!!

http://tnprephoops.podomatic.com/entry/2...9_09-07_00

(04-24-2015 02:57 PM)EastTNTony Wrote:  Here is a short interview Coach Forbes did with Andre Whitehead of TNprephoops.com

Coach Forbes comes on at 17:20

GO BUCS!!

http://tnprephoops.podomatic.com/entry/2...9_09-07_00

Another great interview.. thanks for making that available!!! The more I see and hear coach Forbes the more impressed I am.. I really like what he said about recruiting!!!

(04-24-2015 02:57 PM)EastTNTony Wrote:  Here is a short interview Coach Forbes did with Andre Whitehead of TNprephoops.com

Coach Forbes comes on at 17:20

GO BUCS!!

http://tnprephoops.podomatic.com/entry/2...9_09-07_00

Thank you for posting this EastTNTony!

(04-24-2015 02:57 PM)EastTNTony Wrote:  Here is a short interview Coach Forbes did with Andre Whitehead of TNprephoops.com

Coach Forbes comes on at 17:20

GO BUCS!!

http://tnprephoops.podomatic.com/entry/2...9_09-07_00

Really great interview. Thank you for posting.

Apparently I must have been nodding off a lot more lately. When did information about Lester's ankle surgery come out?

He first mentioned it in an interview with a Knoxville radio show a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully Lester will be good to go at the start of the season.

(04-25-2015 06:08 PM)Bucster Wrote:  He first mentioned it in an interview with a Knoxville radio show a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully Lester will be good to go at the start of the season.

Lester had microsurgery on his ankle. He first noticed the injury last spring and thought it would go away over the summer. When he returned in the fall it was still sore. He went to the orthopedic doctor and was told if he had surgery he would be out until December. He decided to play with the pain and deal with it later.

He is out for 3-4 months. Hopefully it will be closer to 3 months.

(04-25-2015 09:59 PM)EastTNTony Wrote:  

(04-25-2015 06:08 PM)Bucster Wrote:  He first mentioned it in an interview with a Knoxville radio show a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully Lester will be good to go at the start of the season.

Lester had microsurgery on his ankle. He first noticed the injury last spring and thought it would go away over the summer. When he returned in the fall it was still sore. He went to the orthopedic doctor and was told if he had surgery he would be out until December. He decided to play with the pain and deal with it later.

He is out for 3-4 months. Hopefully it will be closer to 3 months.

Hopefully it will help him pass.

Since a Wikipedia article didn't previously exists on Forbes, I decided to make one. The article is still a bit bare so feel free to add to it and correct any mistakes I made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Forbes_(basketball)