At some point we have bought into the lie of making the tourney as some gold standard of success in college basketball and we take the bait hook line and sinker. For instance Texas was 20-14 which by no means a good record yet they make the tourney so by that alone defines in some peoples minds as a good season?

There are 68 teams that make the tourney which is a lot of teams since when did being the top 68 in anything make u a good team or a huge success. We have bought into this narrative that making the tourney is the gold standard when in actuality it's just a ploy coaches use to tout their mediocrity and hide behind their sub par seasons. People here do the same thing with Pastner he made the tourney four out of five years. So what so did 67 other teams. Maybe back in the day when it was smaller and an actual achievement to get in it was a big deal nowadays everyone makes it. At some point coaches should not be allowed to hide behind this. Again Texas was 20-14 is that really a good season? So because some committee who is in the back pocket of the power five says they are in now all of a sudden they had a great year?

This whole thing is silly making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment anymore but it's sold to us that way by coaches so they can hide behind their mediocrity and say see I made the tourney so I must have had a good year blah blah. When is 20-14 a good year ever? U lost almost half your games. This whole idea of making the tourney is a farce and yet we for some reason buy it and thus you are untouchable because u made the tourney. Coaches love this narrative because they can hide behind it and their mediocre seasons. I'm not fooled by it though most seem to be judging by the threads about Barnes. I don't know of any other sport where being the top 68 makes u a huge success but evidently in college basketball that is the mark of a great year so as long as you get in. So people should be content with 20-14 and 19-15 so long as some committee puts them in the tourney. It's laughable really and coaches use this constantly to keep their jobs at some point people need to realize making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment 68 teams make it last time I checked being in the top 68 doesn't mean a thing but to some it's obviously the gold standard it's a really weird thing.

Making the tourney>Not making the tourney.

If you don't win the conference tournament, there are only 36 at large bids.

(03-29-2015 01:59 PM)GRNMTNTIGER Wrote:  Making the tourney>Not making the tourney.

U think? Thanks that answers everything. The point is that making the tourney is not as big of a deal as it is sold to us. Obviously u want to be in the field that is not the point but to act like because u make the tourney it somehow automatically qualifies that as a successful season or makes u untouchable as far as your job is concerned is a joke. No other sport celebrated mediocrity quite like college basketball.

(03-29-2015 02:14 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  If you don't win the conference tournament, there are only 36 at large bids.

Still it's not some huge success to make the tourney. Texas was 20-14 and that is by no means a good year but because he makes the tourney he should be safe as far as his job goes? UCLA had a worse record than that and got in my point is that making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment that it's made out to be of course you would rather be in it as the smart azz before u commented but it's not some major accomplishment anymore.

(03-29-2015 02:15 PM)jason80 Wrote:  

(03-29-2015 01:59 PM)GRNMTNTIGER Wrote:  Making the tourney>Not making the tourney.

U think? Thanks that answers everything. The point is that making the tourney is not as big of a deal as it is sold to us. Obviously u want to be in the field that is not the point but to act like because u make the tourney it somehow automatically qualifies that as a successful season or makes u untouchable as far as your job is concerned is a joke. No other sport celebrated mediocrity quite like college basketball.

I didn't start the post, you did.
So then, I guess you have to define what a successful season is then. If we don't make at least 20 wins in a year, that is a failure, how about that then?
Maybe TX was 20-14 but it was MORE OF A SUCCESS than our 18 win season.

(03-29-2015 01:55 PM)jason80 Wrote:  At some point we have bought into the lie of making the tourney as some gold standard of success in college basketball and we take the bait hook line and sinker. For instance Texas was 20-14 which by no means a good record yet they make the tourney so by that alone defines in some peoples minds as a good season?

There are 68 teams that make the tourney which is a lot of teams since when did being the top 68 in anything make u a good team or a huge success. We have bought into this narrative that making the tourney is the gold standard when in actuality it's just a ploy coaches use to tout their mediocrity and hide behind their sub par seasons. People here do the same thing with Pastner he made the tourney four out of five years. So what so did 67 other teams. Maybe back in the day when it was smaller and an actual achievement to get in it was a big deal nowadays everyone makes it. At some point coaches should not be allowed to hide behind this. Again Texas was 20-14 is that really a good season? So because some committee who is in the back pocket of the power five says they are in now all of a sudden they had a great year?

This whole thing is silly making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment anymore but it's sold to us that way by coaches so they can hide behind their mediocrity and say see I made the tourney so I must have had a good year blah blah. When is 20-14 a good year ever? U lost almost half your games. This whole idea of making the tourney is a farce and yet we for some reason buy it and thus you are untouchable because u made the tourney. Coaches love this narrative because they can hide behind it and their mediocre seasons. I'm not fooled by it though most seem to be judging by the threads about Barnes. I don't know of any other sport where being the top 68 makes u a huge success but evidently in college basketball that is the mark of a great year so as long as you get in. So people should be content with 20-14 and 19-15 so long as some committee puts them in the tourney. It's laughable really and coaches use this constantly to keep their jobs at some point people need to realize making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment 68 teams make it last time I checked being in the top 68 doesn't mean a thing but to some it's obviously the gold standard it's a really weird thing.

You need to educate yourself on the P5 versus non P5. It's a nice season for a non P5 to make the tourney. In order to make the tourney as a non P5 you have to either win your conference tourney or be among the top ~30 programs. And even being in the top ~30 doesn't get you in. Most at large spots are reserved for P5. The BPI is used to justify the scam, but the BPI assumes P5 wins are better because more P5 teams are ranked, which means P5 teams play a more 'difficult' schedule, which means more chances for 'quality' wins. The system is rigged by TV money. For the Tigers to make the tourney as an at large, we have to have a really good season.

(03-29-2015 02:14 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  If you don't win the conference tournament, there are only 36 at large bids.

Lost on OP.....

OP - we get it, making the NCAA tournament doesn't mean anything; it proves nothing. It truly is a meaningless statistic to argue the merits of any coach.

So the fact Pastner made the tournament 4 out of 6 years likewise doesn't mean a damn thing.

A bit of advice: you tend to overkill on your point, it's simpler to just say Pastner sucks and should be fired this evening. MEMPHIS will have a large pool of much more capable, proven coaches to escalate this program back to the heady seasons of 2006-09 (NOT the four straight nice NCAA runs since we concur those are of zero value, just the 140-13 record).

Don't fret, Pastner will be gone by April 2016 one way or another.

Our fan base is more sophisticated than this. We've had good teams that didn't make the dance and bad teams that have. I think the core Memphis fans evaluate what we see on the court more than the lucky or unlucky streak that gets you in or out of the dance.

I'm going to guess that the disparity between Memphis ranked recruiting classes was greater than the second highest ranked classes in CUSA versus the disparity between 1and 2 in all non P5 leagues.

(03-29-2015 03:33 PM)boss man Wrote:  OP - we get it, making the NCAA tournament doesn't mean anything; it proves nothing. It truly is a meaningless statistic to argue the merits of any coach.

So the fact Pastner made the tournament 4 out of 6 years likewise doesn't mean a damn thing.

A bit of advice: you tend to overkill on your point, it's simpler to just say Pastner sucks and should be fired this evening. MEMPHIS will have a large pool of much more capable, proven coaches to escalate this program back to the heady seasons of 2006-09 (NOT the four straight nice NCAA runs since we concur those are of zero value, just the 140-13 record).

Don't fret, Pastner will be gone by April 2016 one way or another.

Sad but true.

Why do we really count making the tournament during the C-USA era where Memphis had the tremendous advantage of the many areas:

1). Memphis had national name recognition following the coach Cal era. People overlook that we were one of the hottest schools in the NATION following those NCAA runs with Coach Cal.

2). The city of Memphis superior recruiting advantage.

3). The first year in the AAC, we had our best team with 4 senior guards. It was expected to not only make the tournament, but to get far. With a SENIOR laden team we get BLOWN OUT by Virginia.

4). Even with 4 senior guards and our best team, we still get blown out on our home floor against UCONN twice, and Cincy.

Memphis Fans who are want a change are not crazy. After last year, many fans have just lost confidence in Pastner's ability. For me, it was the blaming of players and throwing players under the bus (i.e. Joe Jackson, Micheal Dixon, Will Barton, Tarik Black and the list goes on).

(03-29-2015 03:50 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I'm going to guess that the disparity between Memphis ranked recruiting classes was greater than the second highest ranked classes in CUSA versus the disparity between 1and 2 in all non P5 leagues.

An educated guess of ofcourse....Pastner does "less with more" is the phrase that caught my eye.....We're more talented than most of the teams in the top 25......In 2012, our recruiting class with Adonis Thomas put us @ pre-season #15, also take into account that our sos was #1....So, looking at this matrix Memphis recruits on an Elite/Blueblood/P5 level....it's amazing how some feel that our expectation level are too high for our University.

Our recruiting ability & hotbed of talent has gotten JP notoriety, It is our program that put him on the map as won of the winningest coaches, it's definitely NOT his coaching ability, as he has no structure or foundation to built upon, His coaching strategies are mere knee-jerk reactions that have become comical, mundane,tiresome, boring & simply pathetic...

Didn't mean to turn this into a rant....again your point is exactly that, on point....As we will always be, and have always been, One of THE most talented/loaded/ teams with the most potential in the college basketball landscape period!

Calipari exploited it and also used it to his advantage(what must people whom are greedy do)!.....Josh was a lucky recipient of this honor(as the opportunity feel into his lap). He has milked this program of it's heritage and we are barely clinging to the advantages that we have had as a talent hotbed, as now coaches are able to poach and pilfer the riches of Memphis basketball minerals....We need someone who is going to pull this back together and fast.....Almost a Larry Brown type of hire, whom has connections and resources as well as street cred.....Josh has absolutely zero cred!!!!!


I am starting to really like the guy @ GSU:

"One, Ron Hunter is 50; if he’s going to make a big move, he needs to make it soon. Two, his son R.J. is apt to leave for the NBA. Three, he’s making $425,000 at Georgia State — his salary gets bumped to $500,000 next season because the Panthers made the NCAA tournament — which is less than half of what Brian Gregory is being paid to coach Georgia Tech. Four, Hunter can really, really coach. But hold your horses. Here’s what Hunter said Sunday: “I am 50, and quality of life means more to me. That’s not to say if there’s a job for me — a no-brainer — than I’d say no to looking at that, but there aren’t many of those. I don’t have to chase money. My happiness means a lot more to me.” Then this: “I love where I’m at. I love what I’m doing.” Then: “Me just taking a job for the money, I’m not going to do that.” Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Or The Earl Watson/Hubie Brown connection:

"Watson told CSNNW.com earlier this year that if he were to obtain a head coaching job in the NBA next season, he would reach out to Coach Hubie Brown to gauge his interest in exiting his ESPN color commentating gig to become his lead assistant. It would be similar to what Jason Kidd did by bringing on Lawrence Frank". CSNNW.com
Rumors tagsPortland Trail Blazers, Utah Jazz, Coaching, Earl Watson, Hubie Brown
Share on FacebookShare on TwitterSubscribe to HoopsHype rumors

"Brown, who loves Watson as if he were his own son, said if things materialized in that fashion, he would have to entertain Watson’s proposal, but said it would have to include little, to no traveling due to him getting up there in years. “I’m 80 years old and I’ll be 81 in September, but I wouldn’t mine doing the practices at home,” Brown told CSNNW.com. “You never know what could happen. He is a top professional. He has a high IQ, very coachable and very bright. He doesn’t miss a thing. He’s very inquisitive. He sees things, but picks his spots. I always say that he was one of the toughest kids to ever play for me. He’ll make an excellent NBA head coach.” CSNNW.com

So I lack sophistication by pointing out that making the tourney is not some huge accomplishment? Ok I'm sorry Mr. Elitist. What a great guy u seem to be. It was merely a topic I was wanting to address if it's below you and your ilk to get into to such conversations just ignore the thread and move on maybe there are some on quantum physics that would be more up your ally somewhere. Texas had a losing record in their conference as did other teams but yet get at large bids. My point is by any measure is that considered a successful season and make Barnes safe because they make the tourney. I'm only suggesting that guys should not be kept simply because they make the tourney. If u underachieve year after year and u have lost the confidence of the players and fan base it's time to go. I just think way too much emphasis is put on making the tourney or not making the tourney. Obviously Temple, Murray St, and Colorado St had better years than both Texas, UCLA and others but because they make the tourney they are seen to have had the better year which us just simply untrue. U can disagree with my whole premise and say that all that matters is making the field of 68 and that's fine my only point was when did just making a tourney of 68 teams become some gold standard of college basketball. Just a thought obviously not a popular one but oh well just think too much stock is put into it is all.

(03-29-2015 03:37 PM)Claw Wrote:  Our fan base is more sophisticated than this. We've had good teams that didn't make the dance and bad teams that have. I think the core Memphis fans evaluate what we see on the court more than the lucky or unlucky streak that gets you in or out of the dance.

DING DING DING

Calipari will have tough time with Wisconsin

(03-29-2015 06:17 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Calipari will have tough time with Wisconsin

If only that was so.

(03-29-2015 06:21 PM)dan o Wrote:  

(03-29-2015 06:17 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Calipari will have tough time with Wisconsin

If only that was so.

Hopefully so

(03-29-2015 06:42 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(03-29-2015 06:21 PM)dan o Wrote:  

(03-29-2015 06:17 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Calipari will have tough time with Wisconsin

If only that was so.

Hopefully so

Just my opinion, but I think they just squeezed by their "toughest" opponent.