(03-24-2015 12:50 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:39 PM)indycat Wrote:  Yes, X has no moral high ground on this or any issue post-brawl, if they ever did prior. The behavior of their fans @ Cintas that day, post-game player comments, and failure of their coaches and leadership to act responsibly in the aftermath showed their true colors.

And yes, they can sweep it under a rug as their keystone cops are not duly sworn law officers of the state of Ohio as they are @ UC.

What do you mean?
Xavier police are state certified, just like UC police.
http://www.xavier.edu/police/
https://www.uc.edu/publicsafety/about/police.html

Ohio Code 1713.50 © -"with the same powers and authority that are vested in a police officer of a municipal corporation or a county sheriff"
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1713.50

Hmmm....without reading it, and going off of memory in the distant past, I'd say that if you were a 1L you might get your hand slapped with a ruler for selective statutory advocacy. Who pays them? Who assigns duties? Who are their bosses? Who do they report to? Who can terminate their position for cause or as a management decision?

No, they are not like public school police forces, Jr.

House Bill 411 sought to open up the private records and all the dirty secrets.

http://www.splc.org/article/2014/02/prop...rds-public

(03-24-2015 12:50 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:39 PM)indycat Wrote:  Yes, X has no moral high ground on this or any issue post-brawl, if they ever did prior. The behavior of their fans @ Cintas that day, post-game player comments, and failure of their coaches and leadership to act responsibly in the aftermath showed their true colors.

And yes, they can sweep it under a rug as their keystone cops are not duly sworn law officers of the state of Ohio as they are @ UC.

What do you mean?
Xavier police are state certified, just like UC police.
http://www.xavier.edu/police/
https://www.uc.edu/publicsafety/about/police.html

Ohio Code 1713.50 © -"with the same powers and authority that are vested in a police officer of a municipal corporation or a county sheriff"
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1713.50

Here's my understanding:X police are certified by the state, yes. But they are not publicly-employed Ohio law officers subject to the transparency of open records requests, etc.; since they are employed by a private institution and report to the leadership of that entity.

(03-24-2015 01:01 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

So, you're saying that a called foul in a Basketball game is equivalent with "battery"? (Assault is verbal, battery is physical.) That's a novel legal interpretation that NO prosecutor has taken up...even with far more egregious violations (ie. with a hockey player deliberately striking someone with a stick, or a pitcher deliberately throwing at the head...) Did we see Suh get arrested for his deliberate stomping on players in the NFL?

Not only that, it is curious because I am quite sure that we could find violations on the part of Ohio State players in all sports, who lost their composure and deliberately punched, kicked, or otherwise struck another player outside of the actual play taking place on the court or field. Perhaps the Columbus police should move to take those players into custody and the local DA prosecute them for their battery as well?

Oh, I forgot... The players and students at THE Ohio State University are blameless and as pure as the driven snow... It would be preposterous to raise questions about them, just the criminals at UC.

Its amusing seeing people complain about this. Wasn't Ellis dismissed from the team because of the brawl and then beating up a bouncer? Now he's back on the team and you're upset that X hasn't sent Reynolds packing for unknown(to the public) charges/reports?

If this was something extreme then he would be gone in a heartbeat. They expelled Wells and then came to find out he was innocent. Maybe they are waiting for all the facts this time.

(03-24-2015 01:13 PM)InspectorHound Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:09 PM)50Cent Wrote:  A 4-5 week investigation? Did he commit a homicide? Wait that is the zip 'em up crew.

Gotta love Chris Mack teams.

Tournament will be over by then, duh. Cover-Up 101.

Tournament will be over for X before the weekend.

(03-24-2015 01:20 PM)kellernr Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:01 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

So, you're saying that a called foul in a Basketball game is equivalent with "battery"? (Assault is verbal, battery is physical.) That's a novel legal interpretation that NO prosecutor has taken up...even with far more egregious violations (ie. with a hockey player deliberately striking someone with a stick, or a pitcher deliberately throwing at the head...) Did we see Suh get arrested for his deliberate stomping on players in the NFL?

Not only that, it is curious because I am quite sure that we could find violations on the part of Ohio State players in all sports, who lost their composure and deliberately punched, kicked, or otherwise struck another player outside of the actual play taking place on the court or field. Perhaps the Columbus police should move to take those players into custody and the local DA prosecute them for their battery as well?

Oh, I forgot... The players and students at THE Ohio State University are blameless and as pure as the driven snow... It would be preposterous to raise questions about them, just the criminals at UC.

Its amusing seeing people complain about this. Wasn't Ellis dismissed from the team because of the brawl and then beating up a bouncer? Now he's back on the team and you're upset that X hasn't sent Reynolds packing for unknown(to the public) charges/reports?

If this was something extreme then he would be gone in a heartbeat. They expelled Wells and then came to find out he was innocent. Maybe they are waiting for all the facts this time.

Ellis was never charged with anything.

(03-24-2015 01:20 PM)kellernr Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:01 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

So, you're saying that a called foul in a Basketball game is equivalent with "battery"? (Assault is verbal, battery is physical.) That's a novel legal interpretation that NO prosecutor has taken up...even with far more egregious violations (ie. with a hockey player deliberately striking someone with a stick, or a pitcher deliberately throwing at the head...) Did we see Suh get arrested for his deliberate stomping on players in the NFL?

Not only that, it is curious because I am quite sure that we could find violations on the part of Ohio State players in all sports, who lost their composure and deliberately punched, kicked, or otherwise struck another player outside of the actual play taking place on the court or field. Perhaps the Columbus police should move to take those players into custody and the local DA prosecute them for their battery as well?

Oh, I forgot... The players and students at THE Ohio State University are blameless and as pure as the driven snow... It would be preposterous to raise questions about them, just the criminals at UC.

Its amusing seeing people complain about this. Wasn't Ellis dismissed from the team because of the brawl and then beating up a bouncer? Now he's back on the team and you're upset that X hasn't sent Reynolds packing for unknown(to the public) charges/reports?

If this was something extreme then he would be gone in a heartbeat. They expelled Wells and then came to find out he was innocent. Maybe they are waiting for all the facts this time.

They only dismissed Wells because his was an alleged sexual assault at the same time they were being investigated by the FBI for covering up a rape.

Reynolds hasn't been charged either.

(03-24-2015 01:20 PM)kellernr Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:01 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

So, you're saying that a called foul in a Basketball game is equivalent with "battery"? (Assault is verbal, battery is physical.) That's a novel legal interpretation that NO prosecutor has taken up...even with far more egregious violations (ie. with a hockey player deliberately striking someone with a stick, or a pitcher deliberately throwing at the head...) Did we see Suh get arrested for his deliberate stomping on players in the NFL?

Not only that, it is curious because I am quite sure that we could find violations on the part of Ohio State players in all sports, who lost their composure and deliberately punched, kicked, or otherwise struck another player outside of the actual play taking place on the court or field. Perhaps the Columbus police should move to take those players into custody and the local DA prosecute them for their battery as well?

Oh, I forgot... The players and students at THE Ohio State University are blameless and as pure as the driven snow... It would be preposterous to raise questions about them, just the criminals at UC.

Its amusing seeing people complain about this. Wasn't Ellis dismissed from the team because of the brawl and then beating up a bouncer? Now he's back on the team and you're upset that X hasn't sent Reynolds packing for unknown(to the public) charges/reports?

If this was something extreme then he would be gone in a heartbeat. They expelled Wells and then came to find out he was innocent. Maybe they are waiting for all the facts this time.

Come on. Everyone knows the ONLY reason they kicked Wells out is because they were being investigated by the OCR for their handling (or lack there) of rape cases at the time. Ironically, that decision came back to bite them because he sued them and they had to settle out of court.

I would imagine they don't want to get sued again, so they are letting this one play out first.

(03-24-2015 01:30 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Reynolds hasn't been charged either.

And that's the difference...UC instantly kicked Ellis off of the team despite no charges. Xavier took the cowardly way out and is allowing him to play WHILE they "investigate."

(03-24-2015 01:29 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:20 PM)kellernr Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:01 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

So, you're saying that a called foul in a Basketball game is equivalent with "battery"? (Assault is verbal, battery is physical.) That's a novel legal interpretation that NO prosecutor has taken up...even with far more egregious violations (ie. with a hockey player deliberately striking someone with a stick, or a pitcher deliberately throwing at the head...) Did we see Suh get arrested for his deliberate stomping on players in the NFL?

Not only that, it is curious because I am quite sure that we could find violations on the part of Ohio State players in all sports, who lost their composure and deliberately punched, kicked, or otherwise struck another player outside of the actual play taking place on the court or field. Perhaps the Columbus police should move to take those players into custody and the local DA prosecute them for their battery as well?

Oh, I forgot... The players and students at THE Ohio State University are blameless and as pure as the driven snow... It would be preposterous to raise questions about them, just the criminals at UC.

Its amusing seeing people complain about this. Wasn't Ellis dismissed from the team because of the brawl and then beating up a bouncer? Now he's back on the team and you're upset that X hasn't sent Reynolds packing for unknown(to the public) charges/reports?

If this was something extreme then he would be gone in a heartbeat. They expelled Wells and then came to find out he was innocent. Maybe they are waiting for all the facts this time.

They only dismissed Wells because his was an alleged sexual assault at the same time they were being investigated by the FBI for covering up a rape.

Ding ding ding! Winnah

And even then they screwed that up so bad they had to pay the man in a private settlement.

Why would anyone think the Jesuits would be covering up. That's just not who they are is it.

(03-24-2015 01:36 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:30 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Reynolds hasn't been charged either.

And that's the difference...UC instantly kicked Ellis off of the team despite no charges. Xavier took the cowardly way out and is allowing him to play WHILE they "investigate."

Not sure the incidents are exactly equal as the one that happened to Ellis occurred in the offseason, which gave UC time to investigate.

Having said that, X has long had the reputation of covering things up on their campus, a suspicion that was confirmed when the freaking FBI investigated their university for how poorly they were handling on campus rape allegations, which is more disgusting than the stuff I've heard they have covered up over their years for their basketball program.

(03-24-2015 12:55 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

Didn't realize Ellis beat down and then pulled a gun on Hammonds. Missed that he assaulted him. It was a hard foul and while he said he was going fore the box out, honestly I believe he was looking for payback from the elbow that caused him to bleed and leave the game a few minutes earlier and he tried to make it look like a box out. He should know he is under the microscope and can't do that. It was stupid and he hurt and embarrassed his team. But to call it assault is just being idiotic.

There is a rule in the rulebook and it was followed to the letter. He was ejected and there was no punch thrown, thus per NCAA rules he was eligible to play. Lots of players get flagrant twos and get ejected in this day and age. It happens. End of story.

UC's football team had a couple incidents over the season and each of them player was immediately put on leave until the details were figured out. We have aired on the side of caution.

If this had happened to a UC player during the NCAA, would we have put the player on hold. Don't know. The word altercation is hazy. Maybe there was a fight at a party and he was there or something. Maybe it will be bad. Who knows. Maybe the coaches talked to him and witnesses and felt comfortable with his story. We will see down the line. Its not my program, so I really don't care one way or the other.

If you walk up to someone on the street or at a party, wind up, look right at him and elbow him in the throat with a closed fist, that's assault (or battery, I guess, per BearcatJerry legal definitions are stupid, but check these out, Jerry http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100318 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in...in_charges ) .

As far as suspensions, Sterling Gibbs got suspended 2 games for this: ( http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...all-video/ ) which looks pretty similar to me.

It's hard to compare UC's reactions to Xavier's because with X not having a football team, there is a lot smaller pool of athletes to get in trouble. I don't remember another example of a X player getting in trouble off the court besides Dez Wells. Looks like Tappan and Lane were suspended after their incidents, but Payne and Williams played the next game, which fits the seriousness of their offenses, but I don't see any examples like OSU kicking Carlos Hyde off the team when they first heard about the allegations, and then reinstating him and changing it to a 3 game suspension after investigation.

(03-24-2015 01:54 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:55 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

Didn't realize Ellis beat down and then pulled a gun on Hammonds. Missed that he assaulted him. It was a hard foul and while he said he was going fore the box out, honestly I believe he was looking for payback from the elbow that caused him to bleed and leave the game a few minutes earlier and he tried to make it look like a box out. He should know he is under the microscope and can't do that. It was stupid and he hurt and embarrassed his team. But to call it assault is just being idiotic.

There is a rule in the rulebook and it was followed to the letter. He was ejected and there was no punch thrown, thus per NCAA rules he was eligible to play. Lots of players get flagrant twos and get ejected in this day and age. It happens. End of story.

UC's football team had a couple incidents over the season and each of them player was immediately put on leave until the details were figured out. We have aired on the side of caution.

If this had happened to a UC player during the NCAA, would we have put the player on hold. Don't know. The word altercation is hazy. Maybe there was a fight at a party and he was there or something. Maybe it will be bad. Who knows. Maybe the coaches talked to him and witnesses and felt comfortable with his story. We will see down the line. Its not my program, so I really don't care one way or the other.

If you walk up to someone on the street or at a party, wind up, look right at him and elbow him in the throat with a closed fist, that's assault (or battery, I guess, per BearcatJerry legal definitions are stupid, but check these out, Jerry http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100318 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in...in_charges ) .

As far as suspensions, Sterling Gibbs got suspended 2 games for this: ( http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...all-video/ ) which looks pretty similar to me.

It's hard to compare UC's reactions to Xavier's because with X not having a football team, there is a lot smaller pool of athletes to get in trouble. I don't remember another example of a X player getting in trouble off the court besides Dez Wells. Looks like Tappan and Lane were suspended after their incidents, but Payne and Williams played the next game, which fits the seriousness of their offenses, but I don't see any examples like OSU kicking Carlos Hyde off the team when they first heard about the allegations, and then reinstating him and changing it to a 3 game suspension after investigation.

Llyod Price

(03-24-2015 12:56 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:41 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:32 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:19 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  Double standard? It's almost like we aren't a week away from a UC player assaulting someone on national TV and playing 2 days later...

Almost as if.....your school burries drug use and sexual assault....your school sweeps arrests by the private campus police under the carpet ...your school cooks the books to get a diploma in every hand....

But compared to the other school you root for, this is all child's play.

You have examples or evidence of any of this?
You're right though, at least Ellis paid for his tattoos. The horror!

The FBI literally investigated Xavier like 2 years ago for covering up a rape that occurred on campus.

A Title IX investigation for how they responded to allegations is nowhere near the same thing as actively covering up a rape, and the university was not found guilty of any wrongdoing.

(03-24-2015 01:57 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Llyod Price

I had never heard of him until now (I was born in 92), but from what I read his robbery happened after he left Xavier.

(03-24-2015 01:47 PM)Overrated Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:36 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:30 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Reynolds hasn't been charged either.

And that's the difference...UC instantly kicked Ellis off of the team despite no charges. Xavier took the cowardly way out and is allowing him to play WHILE they "investigate."

Not sure the incidents are exactly equal as the one that happened to Ellis occurred in the offseason, which gave UC time to investigate.

Having said that, X has long had the reputation of covering things up on their campus, a suspicion that was confirmed when the freaking FBI investigated their university for how poorly they were handling on campus rape allegations, which is more disgusting than the stuff I've heard they have covered up over their years for their basketball program.

You guys don't really know what "investigation" means, do you? Simply being investigated doesn't confirm anything.

So tired of this "Us vs. Them" mentality.

(03-24-2015 02:14 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:57 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Llyod Price

I had never heard of him until now (I was born in 92), but from what I read his robbery happened after he left Xavier.

Dedrick Finn, Drew Lavender, Will Caudle...

(03-24-2015 02:14 PM)ben-osu Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 01:57 PM)kellernr Wrote:  Llyod Price

I had never heard of him until now (I was born in 92), but from what I read his robbery happened after he left Xavier.

It did happen after he left X, same for Mo Brantly, and Andre Smith. They were former X players when they committed murder.