2 sweet 16's in the past 4 years with a good shot at an Elite 8 Can Gottfried take the program to the next level?

I wouldn't expect "next level".

I personally think they are.

I see the ACC in 3 tiers regarding men's basketball:



Tier 1

Virginia, Duke, ND, UofL, UNC, Syracuse, and now NCST



Tier 2

PITT, Miami, FSU, VT



Tier 3

WF, Clemson, BC, Gt


NCST moved up to the top tier of the ACC with their play this year.
I think WF has a chance to move to tier 2 next year.

FWIW, Business Insider says the only ACC team with a shot to win it all is Duke.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/only-5-tea...57262.html

Not saying I agree, just sayin'

(03-23-2015 12:56 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I personally think they are.

I see the ACC in 3 tiers regarding men's basketball:



Tier 1

Virginia, Duke, ND, UofL, UNC, Syracuse, and now NCST



Tier 2

PITT, Miami, FSU, VT



Tier 3

WF, Clemson, BC, Gt


NCST moved up to the top tier of the ACC with their play this year.
I think WF has a chance to move to tier 2 next year.

Not sure what VT did to justify Tier 2.

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 12:56 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I personally think they are.

I see the ACC in 3 tiers regarding men's basketball:



Tier 1

Virginia, Duke, ND, UofL, UNC, Syracuse, and now NCST



Tier 2

PITT, Miami, FSU, VT



Tier 3

WF, Clemson, BC, Gt


NCST moved up to the top tier of the ACC with their play this year.
I think WF has a chance to move to tier 2 next year.

Not sure what VT did to justify Tier 2.

I have a lot of faith in Buzz. I expect VT to improve greatly and maintain it. Buzz will improve, win and stay at VT. I think Manning will win but then move on.

No. Way, way, way, way to much inconsistency in their play.

Can Gottfried take them to the next level? He's got to demonstrate he can win the game after the big game. He's got to demonstrate that he can win games like Wofford even with questionable refereeing.

way too soon to put NC State in the first tier. SU shouldnt be reduced to the second tier based off of this one season, the same way NCState shouldnt be upgraded to the top tier based off of this season.

I wouldn't put ND in that first tier, quite frankly.

Tier 2, maybe.

(03-23-2015 02:34 PM)TerryD Wrote:  I wouldn't put ND in that first tier, quite frankly.

Tier 2, maybe.

ND is a tweener...name recognition is Tier 1 but they don't have a fan following like Tier 1 and haven't had as much NCAA success as the others.

VT is Tier 3. UVA is probably Tier 1 but they could easily fall back.

TV ratings count as well:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2015/03/...fs1-nbcsn/


Tier 1 teams bring ratings, NCAA Tourny appearances/credits, crowds for big and medium games and expectations.

Tier 2 teams bring NIT with occasional NCAA credits, occasional big crowds but only for big games and solid games for Tier 1.

Tier 3 are basically haymakers. Looking for one big punch against one big foe. They collect tourney $.


NCST is Tier 1 and are back, imo!

I believe Danny Manning will have Wake back to Tier 2 next year.

(03-23-2015 01:55 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 12:56 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I personally think they are.

I see the ACC in 3 tiers regarding men's basketball:



Tier 1

Virginia, Duke, ND, UofL, UNC, Syracuse, and now NCST



Tier 2

PITT, Miami, FSU, VT



Tier 3

WF, Clemson, BC, Gt


NCST moved up to the top tier of the ACC with their play this year.
I think WF has a chance to move to tier 2 next year.

Not sure what VT did to justify Tier 2.

I have a lot of faith in Buzz. I expect VT to improve greatly and maintain it. Buzz will improve, win and stay at VT. I think Manning will win but then move on.

Wake Forest has a much better history in basketball than Virginia Tech does.

I would also argue that Danny Manning has a stronger connection to Wake Forest (and its surrounding area) than Buzz does has to Virginia Tech.

Manning grew up nearby in Greensboro and when Manning was young, Wake was playing a lot of their ACC home games at the Greensboro Coliseum.

I just don't see the reasoning behind Manning being more likely to leave Wake than Buzz

Odom turned down quite a few jobs while he was at Wake until he was forced out in 2001. Skip Prosser turned down hometown school Pittsburgh and later Cincinnati (where he had a strong connection to. I believe he is actually buried in Cincinnati) before he died in 2007. Gaudio was fired after 2010 after a Round of 32 loss to Kentucky. Carl Tacy was forced out in 1985 after taking Wake to the Elite 8 in 1984.

I think State has turned a corner and should be competitive with the upper level teams in the conference going forward. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to develop players and a head coach that knows how to motivate them. With four NCAAT trips in four years, including two sweet 16s, and great home game crowd they should be able to pull in more blue chip recruits.
There is no reason to think they can't return to the previous glory they had under Case, Sloan and Valvono. I think the future looking up for the Pack.

(03-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think State has turned a corner and should be competitive with the upper level teams in the conference going forward. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to develop players and a head coach that knows how to motivate them. With four NCAAT trips in four years, including two sweet 16s, and great home game crowd they should be able to pull in more blue chip recruits.

There is no reason to think they can't return to the previous glory they had under Case, Sloan and Valvono. I think the future looking up for the Pack.

You'd think their recruiting should be better. But this year's class is non-existent. Literally. Zero commitments, despite having four scholarships available. That's a red flag for me. This year's team features three transfers, and I believe there is another coming on board for next year. I don't think you can build a team for the long haul by relying on transfers.

(03-26-2015 11:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think State has turned a corner and should be competitive with the upper level teams in the conference going forward. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to develop players and a head coach that knows how to motivate them. With four NCAAT trips in four years, including two sweet 16s, and great home game crowd they should be able to pull in more blue chip recruits.

There is no reason to think they can't return to the previous glory they had under Case, Sloan and Valvono. I think the future looking up for the Pack.

You'd think their recruiting should be better. But this year's class is non-existent. Literally. Zero commitments, despite having four scholarships available. That's a red flag for me. This year's team features three transfers, and I believe there is another coming on board for next year. I don't think you can build a team for the long haul by relying on transfers.

Kentucky and Duke seem to be doing well with one and dones.

For us the openings are a combination of players going pro early and one transfer of a kid who could not play without the consistent meddling of his mother.

While there are four scholarships, there are not four opening next year on the floor, in fact there will be just one and we have a transfer from West Va who will fill that spot.

Only a handful of programs can recruit talented freshmen and keep them on the bench for two years.

You have three basic options today:

1. The UVa route - scrappy three star kids who play a specific system but none will be NBA starters, and will stay four years.
2. The UK/Duke route - the top talent that may stay one or two years backed up by a handful that need a degree.
3. The NC State route - plug in transfers when the top talent leaves unexpectedly and when you didn't recruit over a kid while he was signing.
4. Who is stockpiling top talent for four solid years?

Ranking tiers should be based on movement through the NCAA, TV, etc.,

I don't see NC State back at Tier 1, but Tier 1 is not as wide as some think.

Tier 1 - Duke, Louisville, UNC, Syracuse (even with NCAA sanctions it will take a decade in the desert to drop UNC and Syracuse from Tier 1 and it will take the retirement of K and Petino to drop Duke and Louisville)
Tier 2 - ND, UVa, NC State - they are close but not top tier
Tier 3 - Miami, Pitt, FSU - they can win the title or finish near the bottom - all three flirt with Tier 2
Tier 4 - WF, GT, - they have past championships and can again, but are not good now or in the past several years
Tier 5 - Clemson, BC, VT - there has to be a bottom. Clemson has not won a league title since the 1930's. The tied for first in the regular season once under Rick Barnes, 20 years ago. VT has not had significant basketball impact in the ACC, nor the Big East, nor the Metro. BC has not been good for a long time and I am unaware or can't remember anything they have done other than being drawn into point shaving 30 years ago, by the Boston Mob.

(03-26-2015 11:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think State has turned a corner and should be competitive with the upper level teams in the conference going forward. They have a coaching staff that seems to be able to develop players and a head coach that knows how to motivate them. With four NCAAT trips in four years, including two sweet 16s, and great home game crowd they should be able to pull in more blue chip recruits.

There is no reason to think they can't return to the previous glory they had under Case, Sloan and Valvono. I think the future looking up for the Pack.

You'd think their recruiting should be better. But this year's class is non-existent. Literally. Zero commitments, despite having four scholarships available. That's a red flag for me. This year's team features three transfers, and I believe there is another coming on board for next year. I don't think you can build a team for the long haul by relying on transfers.

There's 3 seniors on the roster. I think only 1 is on scholarship. Not exactly a need to panic at this point.

Trying to figure out how a team who has finished in the middle of the ACC standings four out of the past five years is in the bottom tier.

(03-26-2015 04:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Trying to figure out how a team who has finished in the middle of the ACC standings four out of the past five years is in the bottom tier.

No respect...