(03-23-2015 11:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:43 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:22 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So basically, the decision was made prior to UAB going 6-6 on the season. In which case, at that time it was fairly easy to see past history of UAB lack of support in football and with nobody at the games and UAB having a dismal records to pull the plug.

And if that was the case why hire a new football coach? Why tell him their is a feasibility study taking place to determine how to go about making improvements for certain UAB depts to include athletics? Why be misleading if the administration truly believe they had the necessary information and data to shut the program down prior to the start of the 2014 season?

You can hire a consulting firm and tell them what you desire to gain from a report. It was obvious a consulting firm was brought in the determine the best way to eliminate the football, rifle, and bowling teams and to produce numbers (not factual by the way) that would support their decision to eliminate these sports.

Why? Because for the reasons stated. UAB player would instantly transfer and basically could have player not even field a team. That would be bad for the conference and other OOC teams that had them on the schedule. The season had to be played out.

I don't buy that Carr Sports Assoc. will purposefully destroy themselves by manipulating data to fit some clients criteria. If they did that, they would no longer be in business.

What I am saying is that they could have shut the program down after the 2013 season instead of hiring a new coach for the 2014 season and misleading Bill Clark.

And I didn't say the Carr Report purposedly manipulated data. They only produce data that would justify eliminating those three sports as Watts wanted to do.

Watts could have told Carr to do a feasibility study to show what is needed to increase funding for football and athletics in general. That is clearly what Watts did not want to happen.

(03-23-2015 12:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:52 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:43 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:22 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So basically, the decision was made prior to UAB going 6-6 on the season. In which case, at that time it was fairly easy to see past history of UAB lack of support in football and with nobody at the games and UAB having a dismal records to pull the plug.

And if that was the case why hire a new football coach? Why tell him their is a feasibility study taking place to determine how to go about making improvements for certain UAB depts to include athletics? Why be misleading if the administration truly believe they had the necessary information and data to shut the program down prior to the start of the 2014 season?

You can hire a consulting firm and tell them what you desire to gain from a report. It was obvious a consulting firm was brought in the determine the best way to eliminate the football, rifle, and bowling teams and to produce numbers (not factual by the way) that would support their decision to eliminate these sports.

Why? Because for the reasons stated. UAB player would instantly transfer and basically could have player not even field a team. That would be bad for the conference and other OOC teams that had them on the schedule. The season had to be played out.

I don't buy that Carr Sports Assoc. will purposefully destroy themselves by manipulating data to fit some clients criteria. If they did that, they would no longer be in business.

Why? Consultants present biased reports all the time (every seen an expert witness at a trial?). There are basically 2 kinds of consulting reports. One is a report that takes an objective unbiased view of the facts and then seeks to determine the best course of action based on these facts. The other, is more like a lawyer, where the consultant takes an advocacy role and attempts to support the clients desired outcome. Im not suggesting Carr lied. Im suggested Carr supplied the kind of report he was asked to develop. Im suggesting that the facts used were those that supported the case while the facts that didn't were either ignored, minimized, or somehow discredited. I AM suggesting that Watts lied about what type of report he asked for. I mean, the email trail at this point is basically telling exactly the story Im suggesting.

Exactly.

(03-23-2015 11:09 AM)Eichorst Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:18 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Any reasoned reading of the Carr report makes it obvious the report was written to support a predetermined conclusion and was never a fact finding report designed to determine a course of action as claimed.

I agree, but that has no bearing on whether or not the UAB football program was sustainable or in the best interest of the university or the state.

No doubt...but people wanted to donate a lot of money to keep UAB football... and that money was turned away...beucasue minds were already made up.

Watts has got to go....

(03-23-2015 11:58 AM)goofus Wrote:  Having worked for a large corporation, this just has the feel of something that you should let go.

Even if you somehow get the leadership to reverse the decision for now, this is a fight you would end up having over and over until the football program is gone for good.

I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:58 AM)goofus Wrote:  Having worked for a large corporation, this just has the feel of something that you should let go.

Even if you somehow get the leadership to reverse the decision for now, this is a fight you would end up having over and over until the football program is gone for good.

I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

That is exactly what Watts and BOT wants UAB to do, "give up and stop resisting". And I say no, you fight until you win. Don't let those bastards screw you over and get away with it.

What I meant was, it would be hard to convince any D1 caliber football players with any other options to go to UAB after what has happened, as they will think in the back of their minds that it could be killed again. It would take a long time of being back in operation (and likely lots of losing due to the above) to change their minds.

(03-23-2015 01:31 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  What I meant was, it would be hard to convince any D1 caliber football players with any other options to go to UAB after what has happened, as they will think in the back of their minds that it could be killed again. It would take a long time of being back in operation (and likely lots of losing due to the above) to change their minds.

I think there could be one HUGE benefit. If football returns, the end result will be a complete change in the way the UAB campus is governed. Tuscaloosa will no longer have their foot on UAB's throat. For 'Bama, this would be complete backfire of the original intent of this whole unfortunate episode.

(03-23-2015 01:23 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:58 AM)goofus Wrote:  Having worked for a large corporation, this just has the feel of something that you should let go.

Even if you somehow get the leadership to reverse the decision for now, this is a fight you would end up having over and over until the football program is gone for good.

I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

That is exactly what Watts and BOT wants UAB to do, "give up and stop resisting". And I say no, you fight until you win. Don't let those bastards screw you over and get away with it.

While these machinations are unpalatable, I think the real focus should be on if you want UAB to remain an independent entity or simply become an annex of the Tuscaloosa campus.

(03-23-2015 02:09 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:23 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:58 AM)goofus Wrote:  Having worked for a large corporation, this just has the feel of something that you should let go.

Even if you somehow get the leadership to reverse the decision for now, this is a fight you would end up having over and over until the football program is gone for good.

I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

That is exactly what Watts and BOT wants UAB to do, "give up and stop resisting". And I say no, you fight until you win. Don't let those bastards screw you over and get away with it.

While these machinations are unpalatable, I think the real focus should be on if you want UAB to remain an independent entity or simply become an annex of the Tuscaloosa campus.

Well technically we started as an medical extension of the campus. Jack Williams, a state representative has introduce three bills to the state legislature:

1. Reestablish the football team.
2. Equal representation of the BOT.
3. Separation from the UA System.

We'll have to see what happens.

(03-23-2015 02:54 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 02:09 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:23 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:58 AM)goofus Wrote:  Having worked for a large corporation, this just has the feel of something that you should let go.

Even if you somehow get the leadership to reverse the decision for now, this is a fight you would end up having over and over until the football program is gone for good.

I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

That is exactly what Watts and BOT wants UAB to do, "give up and stop resisting". And I say no, you fight until you win. Don't let those bastards screw you over and get away with it.

While these machinations are unpalatable, I think the real focus should be on if you want UAB to remain an independent entity or simply become an annex of the Tuscaloosa campus.

Well technically we started as an medical extension of the campus. Jack Williams, a state representative has introduce three bills to the state legislature:

1. Reestablish the football team.
2. Equal representation of the BOT.
3. Separation from the UA System.

We'll have to see what happens.

The Medical School alone won't be enough IMO. Both UAB and UAH need to push for option 3. My tea leaf reading was the opening of a UAT branch in Huntsville. UAT is attempting to upgrade its academic perception and the meaningful work done at the system campuses, along with the attractive undergrad population are ripe targets for appropriation.

(03-23-2015 03:09 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 02:54 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 02:09 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:23 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 01:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I'd almost have to agree, if for no other reason than, I think it would be impossible for them to ever reestablish an FBS football program after this.

That is exactly what Watts and BOT wants UAB to do, "give up and stop resisting". And I say no, you fight until you win. Don't let those bastards screw you over and get away with it.

While these machinations are unpalatable, I think the real focus should be on if you want UAB to remain an independent entity or simply become an annex of the Tuscaloosa campus.

Well technically we started as an medical extension of the campus. Jack Williams, a state representative has introduce three bills to the state legislature:

1. Reestablish the football team.
2. Equal representation of the BOT.
3. Separation from the UA System.

We'll have to see what happens.

The Medical School alone won't be enough IMO. Both UAB and UAH need to push for option 3. My tea leaf reading was the opening of a UAT branch in Huntsville. UAT is attempting to upgrade its academic perception and the meaningful work done at the system campuses, along with the attractive undergrad population are ripe targets for appropriation.

First, I would like to state that I'm a UAH alumni.

What in the world would separating from the UA system do for UAH? We greatly benefit from the partnership the only downside is not have freedom of athletic decisions but who really cares? Is becoming the next Troy or Jacksonville State really really going to make the world a better place?

I think I speak for the majority when I say I would have rather had free tickets to Alabama games than for UAH to have a crappy football team that no one cares about like UAB.

UAH cares about what's going on in Cumming Research Park and Redstone Arensal.

Also there is going to be a legal $$$$ storm if UAB tried to separate the med school from UA, that would absolutely never happen. And UAB without the med school would not be much of anything.

(03-23-2015 03:39 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  First, I would like to state that I'm a UAH alumni.

What in the world would separating from the UA system do for UAH? We greatly benefit from the partnership the only downside is not have freedom of athletic decisions but who really cares? Is becoming the next Troy or Jacksonville State really really going to make the world a better place?

I think I speak for the majority when I say I would have rather had free tickets to Alabama games than for UAH to have a crappy football team that no one cares about like UAB.

UAH cares about what's going on in Cumming Research Park and Redstone Arensal.

I guess the question for you is whether or not you see any value of your degree saying UAH or simply UA? What happened at UAB isn't about athletics, its more about the existence of colleges and universities in the 21st century.

Friday al.com reported UAB is ending its respiratory therapy program - that is one of the most in-demand allied health programs nationwide right now, and even with UAB's program there was projected to be a shortage of qualified therapists in Alabama.


This is not a signature

I wonder if UAB fans had showed up for games and the program had won if it could have built "politically protected status" from being too successful to kill easily. That said UAB's efforts to fix some of its issues have been shot down by the UATs. I don't think we really know what UAB could have been given its environment and circumstances. IF UAB plays it cards right could it show a political plot against them? The dropping of the OCS? The whole can't hire Jimbo Fisher but Bama can pay Saba fiasco? I mean the dealings before the disbandment have been even more dubious.

I think the more successful UAB became, the more urgently the powers would attempt to shut things down.

(03-23-2015 08:34 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  I think the more successful UAB became, the more urgently the powers would attempt to shut things down.

UAB was about to start a football series with South Alabama. This meant that the two largest cities in Alabama would have been focused on the rivalry just because of football bragging rights. UAT could not take a chance that the attention would dwindle from UAT, which is absurd. They (BOT) want all eyes on Tuscaloosa, period.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wic...12729.html

Here is a parallel article about Wichita State deciding to drop football in 1986. Any idea what the athletic deficit is with UAB? leaving out BOT, there seems to be quite a few similarities regarding community support.

(03-24-2015 04:34 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wic...12729.html

Here is a parallel article about Wichita State deciding to drop football in 1986. Any idea what the athletic deficit is with UAB? leaving out BOT, there seems to be quite a few similarities regarding community support.

If UAB floundered on its own, I think it would be a non-issue in terms of being a national story. It is the fact that the Alabama BOT seemed to go out of its way to sabotage UAB, then decide to kill it off since the program was not doing well, which is basically a self-serving prophecy.

If Wichita St's program faltered because of meddling by Kansas or K State, it would be the same. But I think most are latching on because there was basically a wolf in the henhouse.