(03-24-2015 12:03 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I still don't understand the idea of people saying things that they know ahead of time are most likely offensive to someone but they persist in saying it anyway.

Then, they bemoan the world being too "PC" when it is just them being "DUMB" or "JACKASSES" or worse......

The problem is that everything offends someone.

Not the USC Trojans. The Greeks killed them off.

The name Trojans offend those who have STD's.

(03-24-2015 12:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I have no idea what "3rd party commentary" you're talking about, but anyone who confused orangemen with possibly having something to do with Native Americans is a moron.

You must have a lot of morons at Syracuse then. That or they purposely wanted to make sure a lot of other people fit your definition.






It's one thing to clarify the history of the name. But that statement is pure moronic to say that only an idiot would make such a connection, considering the former mascots and graphics used. Seriously moronic.

Unrelated, it would be a manlaw violation for me to not post this pic that also came up

(03-24-2015 01:14 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I have no idea what "3rd party commentary" you're talking about, but anyone who confused orangemen with possibly having something to do with Native Americans is a moron.

You must have a lot of morons at Syracuse then. That or they purposely wanted to make sure a lot of other people fit your definition.






It's one thing to clarify the history of the name. But that statement is pure moronic to say that only an idiot would make such a connection, considering the former mascots and graphics used. Seriously moronic.

Oh, good Lord. The pictures that you posted were of the SALTINE WARRIOR (i.e. what Syracuse was before we were the Orangemen/women). Syracuse changed the name from the Saltine Warrior TO the Orangemen/women to avoid being racially insensitive. If Syracuse thought that somehow taking the name of a group of white European protestants was racially insensitive to Native Americans, would they have adopted the name to not be racially insensitive to Native Americans? The answer is no. Therefore, Syracuse didn't think that there was a connection, and would thus not fall into my "moron" category. A such, your post is 100% wrong.

Seriously though, the word "Saltine" is even mentioned in one of the image names. Think before you post. Honestly, try it just once.

And yes, randomly assuming that the name of a group of 100% white European protestants (i.e. "Orangemen") somehow relates to native Americans, despite the fact that the term "Orangemen" has literally never been used to refer to Native Americans on a large scale (or any scale at all as far as I know) is moronic. If you can find one instance of an Orangeman (i.e. the protestants associated with William of Orange between circa 1650 to 1700) being Native American, or one instance of a historically significant group of people referring to Native Americans as orangemen as a slur, then I will cede the point. Until then you are 100% arbitrarily and randomly making things up.

(03-24-2015 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:03 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 11:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I still don't understand the idea of people saying things that they know ahead of time are most likely offensive to someone but they persist in saying it anyway.

Then, they bemoan the world being too "PC" when it is just them being "DUMB" or "JACKASSES" or worse......

The problem is that everything offends someone.

Not the USC Trojans. The Greeks killed them off.

Read your Roman history.

(03-24-2015 12:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:26 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 12:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  When I hear "Orangemen", I think of those sash wearing, sign carrying, Orange Orders of Scots-Irish Protestants who insist on marching through Catholic neighborhoods in Northern Ireland to lord over the Catholic Irish that the Protestants won the Battle of the Boyne in 1690.

This response actually makes sense.

Shocking from me, I know!

Must be the "blind squirrel" theory at work. :)

Well, there are clearly a lot of nuts on this board.

(03-24-2015 02:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Seriously though, the word "Saltine" is even mentioned in one of the image names. Think before you post. Honestly, try it just once.

Considering past posts you have made, my computer almost exploded with the irony here. On top of that, you REALLY need to think hard here. You are saying only a moron would associate the term "Orangemen" with native Americans, despite the fact that the school who actually kept the term alive in modern American culture, once used a native American as a symbol (don't want to say mascot), which makes it easy for one to associate the two, and changed their name to avoid being considered offensive, around the time that other teams with Native American inspired team names changed their names. . That is the moronic part of this discussion,
no matter how many times you respond, or how many names you call, and no matter the actual history behind the name. As I said, it is one thing to inform people of history. That is always good for the board. It is another to say someone is an idiot for making a common mistake, especially when there is a very easy way for someone to make the mistake. Just like there are millions of people who think the irish word "celtic" is pronounced "Sell-tick" because of the basketball team, even though the proper pronounciation is "Kel-tick). Doesn't make them morons for making the association, since there is good reason to.

(03-24-2015 03:07 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 02:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Seriously though, the word "Saltine" is even mentioned in one of the image names. Think before you post. Honestly, try it just once.

Considering past posts you have made, my computer almost exploded with the irony here. On top of that, you REALLY need to think hard here. You are saying only a moron would associate the term "Orangemen" with native Americans, despite the fact that the school who actually kept the term alive in modern American culture, once used a native American as a symbol (don't want to say mascot), which makes it easy for one to associate the two, and changed their name to avoid being considered offensive, around the time that other teams with Native American inspired team names changed their names. . That is the moronic part of this discussion,
no matter how many times you respond, or how many names you call, and no matter the actual history behind the name. As I said, it is one thing to inform people of history. That is always good for the board. It is another to say someone is an idiot for making a common mistake, especially when there is a very easy way for someone to make the mistake. Just like there are millions of people who think the irish word "celtic" is pronounced "Sell-tick" because of the basketball team, even though the proper pronounciation is "Kel-tick). Doesn't make them morons for making the association, since there is good reason to.

1. Syracuse stopped using the Saltine Warrior in the mid to late 1970's. Syracuse stopped using the name Orangemen in 2003-2004. There was a 25-26 year gap between the two changes. You make it sound like there was a strong connection. There wasn't. In fact, almost none of the undergrads who attended SU during the name change were even alive when SU last used the Saltine Warrior. I say "almost none" because I'm sure there were a couple of adults going back to school to get their degree, but if you remove the outliers, it drops all the way down to "none."

2. The actual orangemen and/or order of orange is/are extremely well known. They are not exactly either a trivial or obscure piece of history, and they are 100% (literally 100%) not Native American.

3. As I've said before, the term "orangemen" has never been used as a racial slur towards Native Americans on a large scale - or even a small scale to the best of my knowledge.

So yes, drawing a connection between a name strongly associated with a group of white protestants and Native Americans because Syracuse happened to change its nickname around the same time as the University of Illinois (and any other university that you want to cite that changed its name in the early '00's) is idiotic because such a conclusion very clearly does not logically flow from even a tenuous understanding of widely known facts.

So, like I've been urging you, try to think *before* you post.

"Just like there are millions of people who think the irish word "celtic" is pronounced "Sell-tick" because of the basketball team..."
Right, and there were people who thought President Bush was racist because he didn't stand up to the Russians enough when Putin put pressure on Georgia (the country) in circa 2006. Naturally, those people were concerned with the African American population of Atlanta, because they thought that they were going to be killed by Russian tanks. As per an actual question that Rick Santorum (I think) got while attending a town hall event in Iowa, there are also people who think that President Obama tried to nuke Charlotte, North Carolina. The point is that there is not a shortage of stupid people in the world. Pointing out a ridiculously uninformed section of society that probably overlaps heavily with the two groups I identified doesn't really prove anything.

"Considering past posts you have made, my computer almost exploded with the irony here."
Nice. An unsubstantiated ad hominem attack. Stay classy.