(03-14-2015 03:46 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Yea I believe I read that deportations are up, not down. Though I don't have the source so I don't know the truth of it.

Even before 2008, considering the number of people that snuck across the border, it would have been surprising indeed if NONE of them committed a heinous crime.

Actually, the argument that deporations as a statistic in themselves is now flawed

From the WaPo

Quote:One problem is the continued use of “deportation” in virtually all media reporting. In actuality, that category has been obsolete in immigration law since 1996. Prior to 1996, immigration law distinguished between immigrants who were “excluded,” or stopped and prevented from entering U.S. territory, and those who were “deported,” or expelled from the United States after they had made their way into U.S. territory. After 1996, both exclusion and deportation were rolled into one procedure called “removal.” At that point, the term “deportation” no longer had any meaning within the official immigration statistics. Its continued use in media reports is part of the confusion.

if you read the article, you'll note there are multiple variations on the "deported" .


Note: This is where the problem occurs:

Numbers USA article..

Quote:In a stunning admission before a House Committee panel on Tuesday, DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson admitted that the Obama Administration has been artificially inflating deportation numbers. While the administration has claimed a "record number" of deportations, earning Pres. Obama the nickname "Deporter in Chief", Johnson admitted that they have been counting border apprehensions that are turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers as deportations.

So if they turn them over to ICE... and ICE doesn't send them back to their natural land... It's still referred to as a deportation?

Center for Immigration Studies

Quote:There we find that in its first four years, the Obama administration deported 3.2 million aliens, averaging just about 800,000 per year. Official numbers for 2013 have not been released yet, but indications are that the total will be about the same. These numbers include all deportations done by all DHS officers at the border, at the ports of entry and from the interior of the country.

That is nowhere near the numbers of the George W. Bush administration, which deported 10.3 million aliens, averaging more than 1.3 million per year.

The actual deportations record is held by the Clinton administration, which sent back 12.3 million over eight years, averaging about 1.5 million per year. Even the Carter administration deported more people than the Obama administration.

And then this goes back to the stats claim of a deportation:

Quote:As a result, ICE agents now are releasing more illegal aliens than they are deporting, even though they have more resources and technology at their disposal than ever before. ICE is doing less with more than any prior administration, at great cost to Americans — not only in fiscal terms, but also in public safety.

But the releases still count as a "Deportation"?

Quote:In 2012, the year the Obama administration claimed to break enforcement records, more than one-half of removals attributed to ICE were the result of Border Patrol arrests that would never have been counted as a removal in prior years. In 2008, under the Bush administration, only one-third of removals were from Border Patrol arrests.

Not sure if that's a stat that would increase the number or not?

(03-16-2015 10:51 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 10:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-15-2015 01:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Most of your post was pointless too, because we all know that already. But the point remains, the Republicans don't want to do anything about immigration either, except for some in the border states. And companies won't raise wages unless they have to - either government fiat or competition for workers from other companies.

except that your post was pointing fingers at one party or another...

while my post dealt with the issues

Virtually by definition, ALL of our posts are somewhat futile, but IMO, we are far better off talking about issues and solutions than parties.

I apologize that my wording was harsher than I intended... I just tire of the finger-pointing. We talk about those in power now because they have the power to change things... As long as we keep voting for parties and not ideas, you are correct that things will never change.

So we should start talking about ideas and vote for people who support those ideas, regardless of which 'party' they associate with.

Does everyone notice how both the left AND the right have sought to hijack and/or label libertarian politicians in order to marginalize and defeat them?

Seriously, why would a liberal (not a quasi-socialist, but a free-thinking liberal) not want to support politicians who want people to be free to be 'wrong' in the eyes of the majority?

I was really just pointing out the Republicans ALSO have a problem with dealing with the immigration issue - in addition to the Democrats. I don't call that finger-pointing.

Democrats had supermajorities in both houses and didnt touch it. You can say neither party wants it, but only democrats have proven they dont want it.

(03-16-2015 02:08 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 10:51 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 10:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-15-2015 01:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Most of your post was pointless too, because we all know that already. But the point remains, the Republicans don't want to do anything about immigration either, except for some in the border states. And companies won't raise wages unless they have to - either government fiat or competition for workers from other companies.

except that your post was pointing fingers at one party or another...

while my post dealt with the issues

Virtually by definition, ALL of our posts are somewhat futile, but IMO, we are far better off talking about issues and solutions than parties.

I apologize that my wording was harsher than I intended... I just tire of the finger-pointing. We talk about those in power now because they have the power to change things... As long as we keep voting for parties and not ideas, you are correct that things will never change.

So we should start talking about ideas and vote for people who support those ideas, regardless of which 'party' they associate with.

Does everyone notice how both the left AND the right have sought to hijack and/or label libertarian politicians in order to marginalize and defeat them?

Seriously, why would a liberal (not a quasi-socialist, but a free-thinking liberal) not want to support politicians who want people to be free to be 'wrong' in the eyes of the majority?

I was really just pointing out the Republicans ALSO have a problem with dealing with the immigration issue - in addition to the Democrats. I don't call that finger-pointing.

Democrats had supermajorities in both houses and didnt touch it. You can say neither party wants it, but only democrats have proven they dont want it.

When Bush was in office I don't recall the Republicans even saying anything about increasing deportations or bulding a wall on the border or anything like that.

(03-13-2015 12:06 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Should have been doing that in his own country. Americans don't do that.

Wait. What?

(03-16-2015 04:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  When Bush was in office I don't recall the Republicans even saying anything about increasing deportations or bulding a wall on the border or anything like that.

Is this serious or tongue in cheek? Sorry... It's hard to tell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006


The bill was introduced on Sep. 13, 2006 by Peter T. King (R-NY). In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283 -138 on September 14, 2006. On September 29, 2006 – the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80 -19 and Bush signed it.

Also... 'The biggest bump in Border Patrol staffing came under President George W. Bush. Between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.'

In 2012, it was 21,394. I don't know what it is today.... but I doubt it has doubled as Bush did.

Border Patrol Agent: We’re Being Punished For Reporting Illegal Alien Groups Of 20 Plus People…



Un-freaking-believable. Obama could care less about the safety of Americans or enforcing the law.

Quote:WASHINGTON, DC — A U.S. Border Patrol agent from the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Texas told lawmakers today that his fellow agents are punished for reporting illegal alien groups of more than 20. “Agents who repeatedly report groups larger than 20 face retribution. Management will either take them out of the field and assign them to processing detainees at the station or assign them to a fixed position in low volume areas as punishment,” Border Patrol agent Chris Cabrera told a Senate panel. “Needless to say Agents got the message and now stay below this 20 person threshold no matter the actual size of the group.”

Cabrera is the vice president of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) Local 3307, a union for border agents. He testified before the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee on behalf of NBPC.

The border agent told lawmakers that the Obama administration is misleading the American people by manipulating border security data.

Cabrera also told lawmakers that the 6 out of every 10 illegal aliens who attempt to cross the southwest border into the United States are not apprehended.

“Ask any line Agent in the field and he or she will tell you that at best we apprehend 35-40% of the illegal immigrants attempting to cross. This number is even lower for drug smugglers who are much more adept at eluding capture,” he said.

U.S. Border Patrol is a component of the Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...e-than-20/

(03-13-2015 12:17 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  You think his immigration status has something to do with him being a child molester. #logicfail

So importing more criminals is logical?

(03-16-2015 05:27 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 04:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  When Bush was in office I don't recall the Republicans even saying anything about increasing deportations or bulding a wall on the border or anything like that.

Is this serious or tongue in cheek? Sorry... It's hard to tell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006


The bill was introduced on Sep. 13, 2006 by Peter T. King (R-NY). In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283 -138 on September 14, 2006. On September 29, 2006 – the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80 -19 and Bush signed it.

Also... 'The biggest bump in Border Patrol staffing came under President George W. Bush. Between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.'

In 2012, it was 21,394. I don't know what it is today.... but I doubt it has doubled as Bush did.

I stand corrected.

The open borders crowd isn't bothered by this story.