I don't care if it is South Central Middle North Dakota Normal, if it helps us get out of the hole we're in, I'm for it. I just don't see much difference between Nevada-Las Vegas and Middling Tennessee. I know neither will bring many fans and neither will inspire our fans to either attend at home or to travel. If one lily pad is like another, why hop?

1.6 million isn't enough to change the situation Rice is in.

(03-18-2015 06:52 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 04:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 04:28 PM)WIowl Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 04:21 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  Based on 2014 data compiled by Forbes:



MWC revenues don't exactly get us to "Tier One." Maybe our arguing, persuading, lobbying, advocating, negotiating, hoping, praying, dreaming, etc. would be more effectively directed elsewhere.

And MWC is splitting it between 11 full member teams vs. 14 in CUSA.

You know very well that football is the majority, but doing it your way, 11 vs 12, thats about 35/11=3.2 million vs 22/14=1.6 million. Another 1.6 million gross revenue is nice but not world-changing.

Given how bad our finances are and have been, I think we would be all over that ,extra 1.6 million.

Sure it isn't SEC money, but it's not peanuts

Isn't our longest current conference affiliation UTEP? I'd hate to lose all that tradition.

(03-18-2015 07:32 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  1.6 million isn't enough to change the situation Rice is in.

1.6 million can get us on the road to changing it.

The P5 isn't coming calling anytime soon given where we are.

We have got to get rid of this mentality that the key is to get into the right conference to mooch off of and live vicariously through. The future of the program depends on building a program that is an asset to its conference. If we don't believe that Rice can make C-USA or whatever conference it is in a better conference, but instead we need them to be good so we can benefit, then why should a conference invite Rice.

(03-18-2015 07:43 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 07:32 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  1.6 million isn't enough to change the situation Rice is in.

1.6 million can get us on the road to changing it.

The P5 isn't coming calling anytime soon given where we are.

If we're reduced to such subsistence opportunism that we'll jump at 1.6 million a year rather than remain focused on larger goals than that, then let's shut the program down. I mean, if the only way we have to get another 1.6 million a year is to mooch it instead of generating it, that's pathetic.

(03-18-2015 07:54 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 07:43 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 07:32 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  1.6 million isn't enough to change the situation Rice is in.

1.6 million can get us on the road to changing it.

The P5 isn't coming calling anytime soon given where we are.

If we're reduced to such subsistence opportunism that we'll jump at 1.6 million a year rather than remain focused on larger goals than that, then let's shut the program down.

Nobody said go to the MWC and stop. How would the MWC detail larger goals? And does that make TCU stupid for climbing the ladder, one step at a time?

And none of this says we stop trying and mooch. We keep building the program we need to build but if we find a way to fund this more, we should look into it.

Basically. The MWC or whatever isn't THE plan but can easily be part of the plan.

TCU didn't scrabble in the gutter for peanuts. They committed fully to building a successful program and brought success to the MWC and subsequently to the Big 12, not the other way around. They were an asset to the Big 12 and a positive contributor before they got there. It's a significant difference in attitude.

(03-18-2015 08:20 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  TCU didn't scrabble in the gutter for peanuts. They committed fully to building a successful program and brought success to the MWC and subsequently to the Big 12, not the other way around. They were an asset to the Big 12 and a positive contributor before they got there. It's a significant difference in attitude.

And the WAC. And the Big East.

But I agree with your point. And whether we go one hop at a time or build up for a giant leap- that matters less than the higher goals for the program

I find it hard to believe we are talking about the advisability of tagging along to a conference that sees UTEP as their primary target. UTEP? I don't want us to tag along anywhere - I want us to be the desired target, not a sweetener thrown in to make the deal work. it is time for us to lead, to go our own way, not to tag along.


Show me an advantage and I will endorse any move, but in this hypothetical move so far the advantage is about $1M and the advantage of not going is better, cheaper travel and more access to road games for fans. Who among us would not gladly see Rice spend that million to get an extra 5K fans into the stands on Saturdays? If we are to get that invite to anywhere, our attendance both at home and on the road will carry more weight than the size of deficit.

this is like a girl breaking her date to the prom with the ugliest boy in school to go with the second ugliest just to prove she is attractive.

I don't know who here has JK's ear, but it is not me, and I suspect it is not any of you. We have put our trust in him to help pull us out of the ditch. If he says go, I will go without a whimper, and if he says stay, I will stay without a whimper, but with a small smile of satisfaction on my face.

JMHIO

I posted some comment to FranktheTank's blog that has specialized in realignment this morning when I got up: http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/18/march-...ent-214606

I know you'll all feel free to tell me how wrong I am, either on here or on there. Fire away.

(03-19-2015 08:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't know who here has JK's ear, but it is not me, and I suspect it is not any of you. We have put our trust in him to help pull us out of the ditch. If he says go, I will go without a whimper, and if he says stay, I will stay without a whimper, but with a small smile of satisfaction on my face.

JMHIO

Other fans may have had different interactions with the athletic admin, but in my discussions I have been led to believe that CUSA is not a long term home and that Rice is/will continue to explore options outside of CUSA. Their words: the best way to get out of CUSA is to dramatically improve the high profile sports and we are trying to do both.

(03-19-2015 09:24 AM)WIowl Wrote:  

(03-19-2015 08:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't know who here has JK's ear, but it is not me, and I suspect it is not any of you. We have put our trust in him to help pull us out of the ditch. If he says go, I will go without a whimper, and if he says stay, I will stay without a whimper, but with a small smile of satisfaction on my face.

JMHIO

Other fans may have had different interactions with the athletic admin, but in my discussions I have been led to believe that CUSA is not a long term home and that Rice is/will continue to explore options outside of CUSA. Their words: the best way to get out of CUSA is to dramatically improve the high profile sports and we are trying to do both.

I don't consider CUSA a long term home or the final achievement of a goal, just a step on the way, like the MWC is. We need to choose our steps carefully. Changing for the sake of saying we are doing something or tagging along neither sound like good reasons for change. To me, anyway.

I want Rice to explore other options, and choose them when they are better.


Part of improving the high profile sports is improving attendance. I don't see how the MWC helps us in that regard. I can see how it hurts.

For me, the decision to change conferences would be based on a number of factors:
1) higher national visibility/ profile for ALL sports
2) more potential $.. Bowl payouts, TV etc
3) joining academic peers.
4) improving athletic expense/ income ratio
5) maintaining/ establishing athletic rivalries.
6) increasing ability to recruit top level student ahletes.
7) serve as a launching pad for joining P5.
I know all of these may not receive equal weight. But to me these are very important.

While I ultimately want Rice to get out of CUSA, I really think it'd be a long-term detriment to move to a western-oriented conference, although I recognize there might be a short-term perception bump.

While UTEP is on the far-western side of Texas, Rice is on the far east side of Texas. The state is 800 miles long east-to-west. That's basically as far as from the Atlantic Ocean to Rice as it is from Rice to UTEP in western Texas (which was formerly the name of UTEP: Texas Western University.) The options for Rice are not great due to the inconvenient location of Houston in the middle and southern portion of the country.

It stings most to learn Rice had an early chance to go SEC with with Arkansas back in the early 90's and turned it down.
SEC would have geographically been the best fit for Rice.
ACC is my second choice,
with Big 10 3rd choice,
Big XII 4th choice,
PAC 12 a very distant 5th, for the western reasons cited above,
and then its a bunch of dogs with fleas with equal problems.

While we could try TCU's conference-hopping approach, it would be expensive, especially if we joined another west conference after the WAC fiasco. And we are desperately trying to save $$ and improve our financial stability. Would Nevada and Hawaii fill the stands any more than La Tech and North Texas? I really doubt it. Sad as it is for us right now, those schools are at least within driving distance. The MWC would reduce football season to empty games in conference. let's face it, in Houston few would choose a Rice-San Diego State game in person over staying home to watch UT vs Oklahoma on TV (better build out that full-service Roost sports bar in HRS like UCF is doing with their Beach bar/Sports bar concept (see EZF construction thread for more on that, with the renderings.)

AAC stinks just slightly less than CUSA, but in the end would be preferable to me than MWC for location/exposure reasons, and would best position Rice for a long-term ACC jump, which, along with the BIG is probably our best long-term hope. I just don't see the Big XII inviting more Texas schools, and if they did, it'd unfortunately probably be UH instead of us to to sheer student body size. Besides, truthfully, I don't really think it does as much for Rice versus the other P5 conference options.

Attendance is everything right now, and you don't increase it by playing schools that are more than 800 miles away. You increase it by playing as many schools as possible within Texas and Louisiana. Those games matter to people. Those games can develop into meaningful rivalries and increase attendance. In the SWC, everyone loved playing Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Texas because people we knew attended those schools. We drove to each others games because they were longstanding rivalries. It was a model that worked. As long as we aren't in the BIG12, we need to follow that same model with the schools here who will play us. As much as most here hate it, those schools are UTSA, Texas State, North Texas, ULL, Louisiana Tech, UTEP, and UH.

Another factor that I don't think has been mentioned is exit fees. If Rice were to leave, it could take up to two years to make up that loss. The MWC isn't going to pay it. It's not worth it.

(03-19-2015 01:32 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  In the SWC, everyone loved playing Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Texas because people we knew attended those schools.

We didn't love it that much, at least not based on the attendance figures. Other than Texas (and aTm, but only when they were good) the SWC schools didn't draw much. Steve Moniaci always insisted that Baylor was our best SWC draw after Texas, but I can recall at least two Baylor games (1968 in Waco, and 1976 in Houston) where the attendance was literally in the hundreds (as in less than 1000). Weather was a factor both times, but those were truly incredibly poor turnouts (and I'm not kidding, they were both well under 1000, in terms of people actually in the seating area of the stadium, might have been under 100). Our biggest home game draws were UT and LSU, by far over anyone else. I always thought it was interesting that we had premium ticket pricing for a non-conference game.

(03-19-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Part of improving the high profile sports is improving attendance. I don't see how the MWC helps us in that regard. I can see how it hurts.

I don't see how it hurts either. C-USA teams don't really drive a ton of attendance at HRS (save for maybe UTSA). Rice needs to build up to being able to draw people on our own, and it shouldn't matter whether we do this in C-USA or the MWC.

Is our road attendance really worthy enough to be a consideration? The road games I have been to are rather sparsely populated from a Rice perspective.

(03-19-2015 01:51 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Rice needs to build up to being able to draw people on our own,

This is the key. And we have NEVER made even a reasonable attempt at doing that. In fact, I would describe our efforts as actively seeking to drive fans away over almost all of the last 50 years.

We counted on Texas to bring 65-70, LSU to bring 65-70, aTm to bring 55, and were happy to get 30 out of anyone else. I still think we could recreate that by playing, say LSU and aTm (or Texas if Texas would consent to play us with either of the others also on our schedule) plus UH, although we'd probably not get anything better than 2 for 1 with our end at Reliant out of either UT, aTm, or LSU. But do 65-70 from one of them 2 years out of 3, plus 45-50 from UH every other year, and develop a Rice ticket base that puts 30 in HRS for other home games, and we'd be generating enough attendance to impact our bottom line where we are and to give us a shot of going somewhere else.

I remember Texas, Baylor, Arkansas, and A&M always bringing lots of fans to Rice Stadium. LSU filled the stadium. If Rice fans didn't take advantage of the close proximity of their rivals in the SWC and drive to road games, then shame on us. That's our fault. And if Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, and UH didn't draw well during the SWC, I'm absolutely certain they would now. Times have changed. If it weren't true, why is everyone here so desperate to rejoin them again?