(03-15-2015 07:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 04:11 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:52 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should I care?

Because one cannot properly disagree with the president's policies unless you insult and hate his family. LMFAO

Proper insults usually get you labeled a racist... so why bother?

Insulting the president is unnecessary. Fair minded disagreement with his policies however is fair game.

Yeah, because the left had fair minded disagreements with Bush and didn't insult him.

(03-15-2015 10:07 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-15-2015 07:37 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 04:11 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 10:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:52 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why should I care?

Because one cannot properly disagree with the president's policies unless you insult and hate his family. LMFAO

Proper insults usually get you labeled a racist... so why bother?

Insulting the president is unnecessary. Fair minded disagreement with his policies however is fair game.

That clearly depends on who is POTUS. To say otherwise would be hypocritical.

VA49er - I do not understand your response - can you elaborate?

Lithuanian's celebrate the Christian new year so America does recognize it. America also recognizes the Jewish, Chinese, and other new years, although not with holidays. So what exactly is the issue?

(03-16-2015 10:33 AM)dcCid Wrote:  Lithuanian's celebrate the Christian new year so America does recognize it. America also recognizes the Jewish, Chinese, and other new years, although not with holidays. So what exactly is the issue?

Are there celebrations at the White House to do so? And no, we do not celebrate a purely Lithuanian holiday.

I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim. It is something that was studied and vetted and talked about and put through a focus group. It has more meaning than if one of us puts on a leprechaun hat and drinks green beer.

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 10:33 AM)dcCid Wrote:  Lithuanian's celebrate the Christian new year so America does recognize it. America also recognizes the Jewish, Chinese, and other new years, although not with holidays. So what exactly is the issue?

Are there celebrations at the White House to do so? And no, we do not celebrate a purely Lithuanian holiday.

I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim. It is something that was studied and vetted and talked about and put through a focus group. It has more meaning than if one of us puts on a leprechaun hat and drinks green beer.

I agree with you that it was not on a whim. Just saying that the white house recognizes many cultural celebrations that are not necessarily what would be called American. America is diverse and made up of many cultures. Honoring persian new year is different than honoring the current Iranian government.

So in my mind I do not understand why anyone would be upset about it, but that is just my thinking.

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 10:33 AM)dcCid Wrote:  Lithuanian's celebrate the Christian new year so America does recognize it. America also recognizes the Jewish, Chinese, and other new years, although not with holidays. So what exactly is the issue?

Are there celebrations at the White House to do so?

I believe there was a Lunar New Year celebration at the White House this year.

(03-16-2015 12:53 PM)dcCid Wrote:  I agree with you that it was not on a whim. Just saying that the white house recognizes many cultural celebrations that are not necessarily what would be called American. America is diverse and made up of many cultures. Honoring persian new year is different than honoring the current Iranian government.

So in my mind I do not understand why anyone would be upset about it, but that is just my thinking.

The decision to celebrate it this year, at this time isn't without purpose... so I disagree that it isn't in some way meant as a message to the current government.

Whether it is appeasement or an olive branch or a tease is entirely subject to speculation... but I respectfully disagree that it isn't meant to send SOME kind of a message to the current government and not to Iranian-Americans. I don't really believe (I could be wrong) that there are large swaths of Iranian-Americans upset with our government for shunning theirs. I work with a number of Iranian-Americans who love their home country, but hate their government.

I'm excited to celebrate this new year

Songkran

In Thailand, a special three–day water festival on April 13–15 marks Songkran, the Buddhists' celebration of the new year. Parades feature huge statues of Buddha that spray water on passersby. In small villages, young people throw water at each other for fun. People also release fish into rivers as an act of kindness.

At Songkran, people tie strings around each other's wrists to show their respect. A person can have as many as 25 or 30 strings on one wrist, each from a different person. The strings are supposed to be left on until they fall off naturally.

I like to see people place a live fish in the Hudson River. You'll be seeing it float several minutes later.

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim.

Accept that this isn't the first time it was done, just the most recent.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....owruz&st1=

(03-16-2015 02:51 PM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim.

Accept that this isn't the first time it was done, just the most recent.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....owruz&st1=

You guys really need to stop moving the bar.

A 'wish' and a 'celebration' are not the same thing.

(03-16-2015 04:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 02:51 PM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim.

Accept that this isn't the first time it was done, just the most recent.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....owruz&st1=

You guys really need to stop moving the bar.

A 'wish' and a 'celebration' are not the same thing.

Who are you guys? If you want to argue semantics fine, but its not the first time the White House has paid attention to this holiday was my only point.

(03-17-2015 07:49 AM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 04:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 02:51 PM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim.

Accept that this isn't the first time it was done, just the most recent.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....owruz&st1=

You guys really need to stop moving the bar.

A 'wish' and a 'celebration' are not the same thing.

Who are you guys? If you want to argue semantics fine, but its not the first time the White House has paid attention to this holiday was my only point.

You guys in this particular case means you. Nobody said anything about 'paying attention'.

'paying attention' to a holiday and celebrating it at the White House are not the same thing.

One is good manners. You wish people a happy 'whatever' even if you don't personally celebrate it because you know they do. The other is something different. As I said, we can discuss the pros and cons of doing so, but it absolutely has meaning when the head of state does it.

(03-17-2015 10:12 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-17-2015 07:49 AM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 04:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 02:51 PM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  

(03-16-2015 12:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I don't personally care about the issue, but I am answering your question. The decision by the WHite House to celebrate something that it hasn't before isn't something done on a whim.

Accept that this isn't the first time it was done, just the most recent.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index....owruz&st1=

You guys really need to stop moving the bar.

A 'wish' and a 'celebration' are not the same thing.

Who are you guys? If you want to argue semantics fine, but its not the first time the White House has paid attention to this holiday was my only point.

You guys in this particular case means you. Nobody said anything about 'paying attention'.

'paying attention' to a holiday and celebrating it at the White House are not the same thing.

One is good manners. You wish people a happy 'whatever' even if you don't personally celebrate it because you know they do. The other is something different. As I said, we can discuss the pros and cons of doing so, but it absolutely has meaning when the head of state does it.

Semantics again. Either way this is not the first admin to recognize the holiday. First to celebrate it? No idea, I didn't look that far into it. If they are, then you're correct.

I get the impression you are taking some ominous meaning from this event by the tone of your post. Unless I am misreading or over thinking. I don't know you or your posting style enough to say to be honest.

(03-17-2015 01:13 PM)Longstrangetrip Wrote:  Semantics again. Either way this is not the first admin to recognize the holiday. First to celebrate it? No idea, I didn't look that far into it. If they are, then you're correct.

I get the impression you are taking some ominous meaning from this event by the tone of your post. Unless I am misreading or over thinking. I don't know you or your posting style enough to say to be honest.

That can unfortunately be an issue on here. No big deal.

Playing semantics rather than respond to the complaint is what I'm accusing people of doing... yes.

The 'complaint' about the action is that it is merely an attempt to appease Iran...

The original 'defense' of the action was to do essentially what you did and compare it to other celebrations.

Celebrating it (whatever 'it' is) at the White House and making a comment or a note or whatever wishing those who celebrate it are not the same thing. No ominous meaning on my part... as there are pros and cons to the idea... just recognizing that there is a distinct and politically meaningful difference between the two actions.

but rather than post the pros to the idea (essentially that the White House is intentionally seeking to show inclusivity)... we get almost a dismissal of the activity as if it is somehow meaningless.

NOTHING celebrated at the White House is meaningless.

A reasonable response would be something defending the decision on the part of the White House to 'reach out' to Iran during a time of intense diplomatic negotiations... but instead we essentially get told that there is absolutely no meaning behind it... it is no different than St Patrick's day... that it is the same as when Bush wrote them a letter.

Obama's attempts to appease the rest of the world are among the least of his transgressions in my book, but it reflects a pattern that he started before he was even elected. I don't agree with it and some are unreasonably upset (and ugly) about it, but he has at least been consistent.

I hope that is more clear... I'm essentially saying... why don't his supporters make the argument that 'reaching out to/appeasing' Iran is a smart thing? Instead of denying that the action has any significant meaning whatsoever.

Fair enough. You would have to ask a supporter those questions, I didn't vote for the man. I was attempting to play devils advocate and I see your point now.

(03-17-2015 01:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Celebrating it (whatever 'it' is) at the White House and making a comment or a note or whatever wishing those who celebrate it are not the same thing. No ominous meaning on my part... as there are pros and cons to the idea... just recognizing that there is a distinct and politically meaningful difference between the two actions.

IMHO, this kind of gesture costs nothing and is absolutely appropriate during negotiations with Iran. Please note that Nawruz is a Persian holiday (new year) that predates Islam by a long, long shot. It's shared with Bahai, Muslims, Zoroastrians, and all others from Persia.

We absolutely should not take Hezbollah off of the terror list to influence negotiations... that should be non-negotiable (even if it is not particularly meaningful, we should not allow US citizens to fund Hezbollah... I don't know if the NSA designation affects that).

(03-17-2015 07:12 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-17-2015 01:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Celebrating it (whatever 'it' is) at the White House and making a comment or a note or whatever wishing those who celebrate it are not the same thing. No ominous meaning on my part... as there are pros and cons to the idea... just recognizing that there is a distinct and politically meaningful difference between the two actions.

IMHO, this kind of gesture costs nothing and is absolutely appropriate during negotiations with Iran. Please note that Nawruz is a Persian holiday (new year) that predates Islam by a long, long shot. It's shared with Bahai, Muslims, Zoroastrians, and all others from Persia.

We absolutely should not take Hezbollah off of the terror list to influence negotiations... that should be non-negotiable (even if it is not particularly meaningful, we should not allow US citizens to fund Hezbollah... I don't know if the NSA designation affects that).

I agree, but it seems WE are the only ones gesturing during these negotiations. Iran, on the other hand, is blowing up a fake US aircraft carrier during negotiations. Seems to me that Iran is the superpower and we are the ones trying to placate Iran.

(03-17-2015 07:12 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-17-2015 01:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Celebrating it (whatever 'it' is) at the White House and making a comment or a note or whatever wishing those who celebrate it are not the same thing. No ominous meaning on my part... as there are pros and cons to the idea... just recognizing that there is a distinct and politically meaningful difference between the two actions.

IMHO, this kind of gesture costs nothing and is absolutely appropriate during negotiations with Iran. Please note that Nawruz is a Persian holiday (new year) that predates Islam by a long, long shot. It's shared with Bahai, Muslims, Zoroastrians, and all others from Persia.

We absolutely should not take Hezbollah off of the terror list to influence negotiations... that should be non-negotiable (even if it is not particularly meaningful, we should not allow US citizens to fund Hezbollah... I don't know if the NSA designation affects that).

THIS is what I was looking for.

I have no problem placating people we are negotiating with.... I just want us to be honest about what we are doing with ourselves.

Cultural understanding is a stepping stone to peace.

(03-18-2015 12:14 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  Cultural understanding is a stepping stone to peace.

I agree and have been living that dealing with the inlaws for the last decade. However, it can't be a one way street. History has proven that with Iran, it's always a one way street.