(03-12-2015 01:17 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:02 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Someone is a little defensive of Dayton (and not particularly educated on the state of their program).

Not educated? I watch almost every UD and UC game. I am a UC grad and root for UC first and foremost, but I still root for Dayton. They may only have 7 scholarship players right now, but that is because they kicked 2 guys out and didn't just suspend them.

UD's fan base is better (sorry guys, not even close) and their arena is MUCH better.

I honestly don't hate Cronin, and LOVE the fact that he is an alumnus. I just want him to coach up the offense as much as he does the defense. Their sets are bad, they consistently turn the ball over, and they bog down all the time. It is hard to win championships when you are 290th in scoring.

UD is bad example of some top flight offensive team. UC and UD have been almost identical in terms of offense. If it wasn't for a young team turning it over more than past UC teams this would be a really really good offensive team.

(03-12-2015 01:17 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:02 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Someone is a little defensive of Dayton (and not particularly educated on the state of their program).

Not educated? I watch almost every UD and UC game. I am a UC grad and root for UC first and foremost, but I still root for Dayton. They may only have 7 scholarship players right now, but that is because they kicked 2 guys out and didn't just suspend them.

UD's fan base is better (sorry guys, not even close) and their arena is MUCH better.

I honestly don't hate Cronin, and LOVE the fact that he is an alumnus. I just want him to coach up the offense as much as he does the defense. Their sets are bad, they consistently turn the ball over, and they bog down all the time. It is hard to win championships when you are 290th in scoring.

You do realize Dayton has worse offensive efficiency numbers than UC right? And I am a big Dayton fan too, both my parents grew up there and have attended my fair share of games at that fantastic arena (which is better as you point out than FTA).

I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

So Mick, you say that you are a great UC fan, but Dayton is where your heart belongs?

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

If the topic is offense, offensive efficiency IS the bottom line.

(03-14-2015 12:34 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

If the topic is offense, offensive efficiency IS the bottom line.

So you're telling me Grinnell College isn't the best basketball team in the world?

(03-13-2015 11:30 PM)ctipton Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

So Mick, you say that you are a great UC fan, but Dayton is where your heart belongs?

No. No where close. I'm saying that Dayton plays a significantly better offense than UC.

(03-14-2015 12:34 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

If the topic is offense, offensive efficiency IS the bottom line.

So the fact that Dayton averages 6 points a game more than UC means nothing?

(03-14-2015 06:31 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 11:30 PM)ctipton Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

So Mick, you say that you are a great UC fan, but Dayton is where your heart belongs?

No. No where close. I'm saying that Dayton plays a significantly better offense than UC.

UD averages 107.7 points per 100 possessions compared to UC's 106.6. "Significantly" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

(03-14-2015 09:45 AM)#BearcatNation Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 06:31 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 11:30 PM)ctipton Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

So Mick, you say that you are a great UC fan, but Dayton is where your heart belongs?

No. No where close. I'm saying that Dayton plays a significantly better offense than UC.

UD averages 107.7 points per 100 possessions compared to UC's 106.6. "Significantly" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

As I have been following both teams throughout the season, I am honestly surprised it is that close.

(03-14-2015 09:45 AM)#BearcatNation Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 06:31 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 11:30 PM)ctipton Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 09:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  I recognize that they score more than UC and that their offensive sets are MUCH better than UCs. I don't care about offensive efficiency. I care about the bottom line.

So Mick, you say that you are a great UC fan, but Dayton is where your heart belongs?

No. No where close. I'm saying that Dayton plays a significantly better offense than UC.

UD averages 107.7 points per 100 possessions compared to UC's 106.6. "Significantly" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

Please stop confusing the issue with facts. You're ruining the narrative.

#BearcatNation ' Wrote:  UD averages 107.7 points per 100 possessions compared to UC's 106.6. "Significantly" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

According to ESPN Dayton scores 69 points a game to UC's 62.

(03-14-2015 09:54 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Please stop confusing the issue with facts. You're ruining the narrative.

Offensive efficiency is a stupid metric. Dayton pushes the ball and runs much better sets. They get more possessions and score more points. Meanwhile their defense isn't as good as UC's but when you run on offense it will be that way.

I'm just tired of the same issues year after year on the offense. UC goes through long droughts of offensive ineptitude. The announcers even touched on it last night talking about when they hit 10 secs in the shot clock then Caupain is forced to make something happen and that is their best offense. It shouldn't be that way but it is every year. Bring a coach in on the staff that can't get these guys to run some smooth plays.

Dayton's "smooth plays" are only netting them 1 more point over every 100 possessions. There is probably an argument to be made that UC can play better on offense, but holding Dayton up as a paragon of offensive excellence isn't the way to do it.

(03-14-2015 11:18 AM)mlb Wrote:  The announcers even touched on it last night talking about when they hit 10 secs in the shot clock then Caupain is forced to make something happen and that is their best offense. It shouldn't be that way but it is every year.

Clearly you don't like facts, but that doesn't justify making things up. Anybody with basic comprehension skills realizes the announcer was simply saying that Caupain needs to be the guy who goes and gets the ball to make something happen when the shot clock starts working down. The point guard needs to be that guy for most teams and Caupain needs to assume that role for UC.

(03-14-2015 11:18 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 09:54 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Please stop confusing the issue with facts. You're ruining the narrative.

Offensive efficiency is a stupid metric.

Can't let this comment go. That is utterly ridiculous. Playing fast doesn't make you a good offense and playing slow doesn't make you a bad offense. Wisconsin plays at the 346th slowest pace in the country and yet they are widely considered the best offense in the country (and by offensive efficiency measures they certainly are). Wisconsin by the way ranks 69th in points per game. which measure do you think is more accurate?

VMI plays at the fastest pace in the country. Not coincidentally they rank 5th in points per game. Of course neither of those numbers mean they are actually good at offense, it just means they get off a lot of shots. In terms of adjusted offensive efficiency Kenpom has them at 296. Do you think VMI is closer to the 5th best offense or the 296th best?

(03-14-2015 02:06 PM)InspectorHound Wrote:  Dayton's "smooth plays" are only netting them 1 more point over every 100 possessions. There is probably an argument to be made that UC can play better on offense, but holding Dayton up as a paragon of offensive excellence isn't the way to do it.

This is very very true.

(03-14-2015 03:09 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 11:18 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 09:54 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  Please stop confusing the issue with facts. You're ruining the narrative.

Offensive efficiency is a stupid metric.

Can't let this comment go. That is utterly ridiculous. Playing fast doesn't make you a good offense and playing slow doesn't make you a bad offense. Wisconsin plays at the 346th slowest pace in the country and yet they are widely considered the best offense in the country (and by offensive efficiency measures they certainly are). Wisconsin by the way ranks 69th in points per game. which measure do you think is more accurate?

VMI plays at the fastest pace in the country. Not coincidentally they rank 5th in points per game. Of course neither of those numbers mean they are actually good at offense, it just means they get off a lot of shots. In terms of adjusted offensive efficiency Kenpom has them at 296. Do you think VMI is closer to the 5th best offense or the 296th best?

69 points per game would make UC a top 5 team this year. I don't think UC has ever averaged over 65 under Cronin. They have had long periods of inability to score, just like their own 4 minute drought when UCONN went 5 minutes without scoring last night. Remember the 13 point half against Tulane? The 2nd half offensive collapse against ECU? I recognize that turnovers are a problem, but it doesn't appear to be getting better. When they need some half court offensive execution they bog down. It's been the same story year after year.

I brought dayton up because they run a 4 guard offense that moves the ball around the perimeter then drives and dishes for wide open shots all the time. UC shoots contested shots all the time.

Watching the Dayton game tonight. Lots of passing the ball around the perimeter and jacking up threes.

(03-12-2015 01:17 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:02 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Someone is a little defensive of Dayton (and not particularly educated on the state of their program).

Not educated? I watch almost every UD and UC game. I am a UC grad and root for UC first and foremost, but I still root for Dayton. They may only have 7 scholarship players right now, but that is because they kicked 2 guys out and didn't just suspend them.

UD's fan base is better (sorry guys, not even close) and their arena is MUCH better.

I honestly don't hate Cronin, and LOVE the fact that he is an alumnus. I just want him to coach up the offense as much as he does the defense. Their sets are bad, they consistently turn the ball over, and they bog down all the time. It is hard to win championships when you are 290th in scoring.

I think Dayton is just a different culture. I know UC is trying to change, but when I went to UC it was still a commuter campus in a lot of ways. I noticed there were a lot of OSU fans, some UK fans and even some Michigan fans that went there. Dayton has always had a strong presence of kids on campus. I think that helps generate school spirit and a sense of a community.