http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketbal...d60e6.html

I can only hope this means my alma mater (NKU) is going to be included.

I've heard Eastern Michigan is considering a move all sports.

thing with this is it's never 1 conference that's impacted by things like this. always the domino effect- that goes beyond even what we talk about all the way down the food chain.

(03-08-2015 09:01 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketbal...d60e6.html

I can only hope this means my alma mater (NKU) is going to be included.

i always thought the Horizon wanted NKU but just didnt want them right out of division 2. that would be my first bet.

Evansville played with some of those MCC schools back in the day. They're in the MVC, but might be punching above their weight class due to a previous administration's incompetence that cut its basketball program's attendance in half.

Evansville to the Horizon, with the MVC picking up one of NMSU/NDSU/ORU/Murray St/Belmont/UAB wouldn't shock me.

I remember the Horizon source 3 years ago saying that an announcement of expansion to 12 was imminient. And then nothing ever happened which was strange. My guess is something was set up but fell through--I'd love to know who those three schools were though.

(03-08-2015 09:10 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I've heard Eastern Michigan is considering a move all sports.

That would be great news for the MAC.

NKU is easily the odds on favorite, which will get the Horizon League to ten. NKU has always had interest from the Horizon, but that league doesn't take transitional schools.

LeCrone wants a 10 team league to allow a challenge series.

The Atlantic Sun might have to take NJIT. But published reports say the MEAC is interested too. Why the ASun hasn't added DII teams in the past few years is beyond me.

Norse on the rise! NKU would be the southernmost Horizon League member, but still reasonably close to most other members. Certainly an easy trip for Wright State, and not a terrible drive for anyone except Green Bay and Milwaukee.

I had heard as far back as I think three years ago from someone with Horizon League connections that NKU was on their want list, and this was before Loyola left, but as someone mentioned earlier, I believe it was because they didn't want them directly from D-2... it was almost like an agreed-upon thing that if they did well in a lower-level league in a few years, the HL would still be interested in them.

Same source told me at the time, if they needed further expansion, Robert Morris and Murray State would be the most desirable of the likeliest candidates.

(03-09-2015 12:12 AM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I had heard as far back as I think three years ago from someone with Horizon League connections that NKU was on their want list, and this was before Loyola left, but as someone mentioned earlier, I believe it was because they didn't want them directly from D-2... it was almost like an agreed-upon thing that if they did well in a lower-level league in a few years, the HL would still be interested in them.

Same source told me at the time, if they needed further expansion, Robert Morris and Murray State would be the most desirable of the likeliest candidates.

you wonder with Murray State if after this year's season maybe they become more of an option. Just thinking with Butler didn't they get an at large or two out of the Horizon?

(03-09-2015 12:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:12 AM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I had heard as far back as I think three years ago from someone with Horizon League connections that NKU was on their want list, and this was before Loyola left, but as someone mentioned earlier, I believe it was because they didn't want them directly from D-2... it was almost like an agreed-upon thing that if they did well in a lower-level league in a few years, the HL would still be interested in them.

Same source told me at the time, if they needed further expansion, Robert Morris and Murray State would be the most desirable of the likeliest candidates.

you wonder with Murray State if after this year's season maybe they become more of an option. Just thinking with Butler didn't they get an at large or two out of the Horizon?

Yes, I believe you are correct, I wanna say there was a year Butler and Cleveland State got in, and another year Butler and either UWGB or UWM. There have been a few years in the Butler days where Horizon was pushing top 10 in conference RPI ratings

(03-08-2015 11:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  NKU is easily the odds on favorite, which will get the Horizon League to ten. NKU has always had interest from the Horizon, but that league doesn't take transitional schools.

LeCrone wants a 10 team league to allow a challenge series.

The Atlantic Sun might have to take NJIT. But published reports say the MEAC is interested too. Why the ASun hasn't added DII teams in the past few years is beyond me.

The A-Sun should have taken NJIT before now...or taken ANYONE after losing ETSU and Mercer and having Kennesaw with one foot out the door too.

That lack of vision is even more reason to want to see the Norse find an escape route. Not to mention the obvious appeal of stepping up in class and planning teams that are a lot closer and could develop as rivals.

Between their nice new arena and the ability to recruit the area well, NKU could become the class of the Horizon reasonably quickly.

I don't think a school either with FBS football (i.e. Eastern Michigan) or in a better basketball league (i.e. Evansville) would step down to the Horizon. That just doesn't happen willingly in conference realignment. (Note that I consider UAB dropping FBS football to be a unique set of political circumstances.)

NKU makes perfect sense - they fit the Horizon League profile very well. Belmont was also looked at heavily a few years ago.

(03-09-2015 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don't think a school either with FBS football (i.e. Eastern Michigan) or in a better basketball league (i.e. Evansville) would step down to the Horizon. That just doesn't happen willingly in conference realignment. (Note that I consider UAB dropping FBS football to be a unique set of political circumstances.)

NKU makes perfect sense - they fit the Horizon League profile very well. Belmont was also looked at heavily a few years ago.

Very few MAC fans would be surprised if EMU shut down its football program or moved down to FCS.

(03-09-2015 08:46 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don't think a school either with FBS football (i.e. Eastern Michigan) or in a better basketball league (i.e. Evansville) would step down to the Horizon. That just doesn't happen willingly in conference realignment. (Note that I consider UAB dropping FBS football to be a unique set of political circumstances.)

NKU makes perfect sense - they fit the Horizon League profile very well. Belmont was also looked at heavily a few years ago.

Very few MAC fans would be surprised if EMU shut down its football program or moved down to FCS.

People have speculated about this, on and off, for the better part of a decade...

(03-08-2015 11:13 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  Norse on the rise! NKU would be the southernmost Horizon League member, but still reasonably close to most other members. Certainly an easy trip for Wright State, and not a terrible drive for anyone except Green Bay and Milwaukee.

It depends on your definition of "terrible drive". I've done the drive to Milwaukee severeal times and it has only taken me around six to six and a half hours.

(03-09-2015 05:37 AM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 11:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  NKU is easily the odds on favorite, which will get the Horizon League to ten. NKU has always had interest from the Horizon, but that league doesn't take transitional schools.

LeCrone wants a 10 team league to allow a challenge series.

The Atlantic Sun might have to take NJIT. But published reports say the MEAC is interested too. Why the ASun hasn't added DII teams in the past few years is beyond me.

The A-Sun should have taken NJIT before now...or taken ANYONE after losing ETSU and Mercer and having Kennesaw with one foot out the door too.

That lack of vision is even more reason to want to see the Norse find an escape route. Not to mention the obvious appeal of stepping up in class and planning teams that are a lot closer and could develop as rivals.

Between their nice new arena and the ability to recruit the area well, NKU could become the class of the Horizon reasonably quickly.

Has NKU become the class of the ASun? What would lead you to believe it would in a better league?

(03-09-2015 08:46 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don't think a school either with FBS football (i.e. Eastern Michigan) or in a better basketball league (i.e. Evansville) would step down to the Horizon. That just doesn't happen willingly in conference realignment. (Note that I consider UAB dropping FBS football to be a unique set of political circumstances.)

NKU makes perfect sense - they fit the Horizon League profile very well. Belmont was also looked at heavily a few years ago.

Very few MAC fans would be surprised if EMU shut down its football program or moved down to FCS.

I'll believe it when I see it. Schools simply don't drop down to FCS in this modern era - it's the worst of both worlds financially. That argument has never made sense to me - if the whole idea is to save costs, then just get rid of football entirely instead of dropping levels. Whatever you're saving in scholarship costs is made irrelevant with what they're giving up in the hard revenue of the CFP money and TV contracts and the soft revenue of the greater marketing tool that comes with FBS compared to FCS. Think of what it would cost to buy 3.5 hours of commercials on a Tuesday night on ESPN, which is essentially what MACtion provides.

Now, we saw UAB drop FBS football due to political factors, but there are a whole lot more schools wanting to get into FBS than there are spots available and athletic departments know it. That weighs very heavily in athletic department decisions right now - I think a lot of fans like to make judgments that certain schools should drop down levels and/or sports altogether, but that's not how athletic departments operate. They know that dropping out of FBS football is effectively a lifetime these days without much possibility of turning back, so they'll do everything possible to save it.

(03-09-2015 10:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 08:46 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 08:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don't think a school either with FBS football (i.e. Eastern Michigan) or in a better basketball league (i.e. Evansville) would step down to the Horizon. That just doesn't happen willingly in conference realignment. (Note that I consider UAB dropping FBS football to be a unique set of political circumstances.)

NKU makes perfect sense - they fit the Horizon League profile very well. Belmont was also looked at heavily a few years ago.

Very few MAC fans would be surprised if EMU shut down its football program or moved down to FCS.

I'll believe it when I see it. Schools simply don't drop down to FCS in this modern era - it's the worst of both worlds financially. That argument has never made sense to me - if the whole idea is to save costs, then just get rid of football entirely instead of dropping levels. Whatever you're saving in scholarship costs is made irrelevant with what they're giving up in the hard revenue of the CFP money and TV contracts and the soft revenue of the greater marketing tool that comes with FBS compared to FCS. Think of what it would cost to buy 3.5 hours of commercials on a Tuesday night on ESPN, which is essentially what MACtion provides.

Now, we saw UAB drop FBS football due to political factors, but there are a whole lot more schools wanting to get into FBS than there are spots available and athletic departments know it. That weighs very heavily in athletic department decisions right now - I think a lot of fans like to make judgments that certain schools should drop down levels and/or sports altogether, but that's not how athletic departments operate. They know that dropping out of FBS football is effectively a lifetime these days without much possibility of turning back, so they'll do everything possible to save it.

Question:

You keep making these comments regarding low level FBS teams/high level FCS teams, but where are the stats to back it up? How do the media reports that FCS schools (mostly) operate at a net gain whereas FBS operate (mostly) at a net loss fit into this?

(03-09-2015 10:37 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Question:

You keep making these comments regarding low level FBS teams/high level FCS teams, but where are the stats to back it up? How do the media reports that FCS schools (mostly) operate at a net gain whereas FBS operate (mostly) at a net loss fit into this?

Pretty much all profit/loss figures from athletic departments are all accounting shenanigans. There are too many factors going into to them and athletic departments have every incentive to show either $0 profit or a loss. FCS football still requires a heavy scholarship commitment with a lot of facilities - as a pure cost savings measure (which is generally the reason we hear for FBS schools supposedly exploring a move down to FCS), it doesn't make sense.

The proof is in the actions of schools: there is a list of schools looking for any FBS invite possible to the point where the MAC is actually a "dream conference" (see Missouri State, Illinois State, etc.). If they had an invite to FBS, then they would move up. Absolutely no one is willing to drop down to FCS no matter how much it might arguably be more competitive, slightly less costly, etc. (Same thing goes with schools and conferences - it doesn't matter how overmatched Evansville might be in the MVC, as they aren't going to willingly step down in stature.)

Remember that you're dealing with the academic mindset where schools would rather be last place in the most competitive/lucrative/prestigious league/organization/group that they're able to get into than be at the top in a lower level group. That goes for athletics or academics. If you're the last student to get accepted into Harvard, the point is that you still got into Harvard. If you're the worst team in a power conference, the point is that you're still in a power conference. If you're the worst team in FBS, the point is that you're still in the top level of college football, which is something that weighs heavily.