(03-06-2015 06:02 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:46 AM)PirateJim Wrote:  What do you think of "Mid-North"? I consider NY, PA, Ohio, all of New England, MD, Delaware and NJ to be Northeast.

The thing is, western PA isn't exactly Northeast. Culturally speaking, Pittsburgh is more like Cleveland, Cincinnati, and even Detroit. Heck, SWPA even has a touch of the Appalachian tongue. We call it Pittsburghese n'at. I wouldn't call Pittsburgh a part of the Midwest, but it's certainly apart of the Rust Belt, which includes a couple of MW states just to our west.

Western PA is part of the Amish Buckle.

The great Amish Country that stretches from Central Illinois to Eastern PA and down to the Piedmont area of Virginia. Ohio is the capital providence of Amish Country.

You don't have to be Orthodox Amish to be part of the Amish Buckle.

If you like any of the following:

1) Farming especially Community Supported Agriculture.
2) Making your own clothing.
3) Using wood to make custom things for your home.
4) Collecting Antiques and displaying the all over your house.
5) Run a construction company or involved in the construction business.
5) Ancestors that liked or were involved with any of (1 through 5).

Then you are practicing Amish beliefs. There are a lot of groups that settled the Amish Buckle that were not out right Amish like that Mennonites that exhibit very similar cultural traits. There were also a lot of religious communities in that region that were organized around communal trade.

The cities of the Amish Buckle of course have other economic elements mixed in like heavy industry, state and local government, service industry and have brought people in from the outside. But many of those people in the cities have moved up and off the farm after going to their beloved state school (Penn St, WVU, VT, Ohio St, Indiana, Kentucky) and continue to work with their hands around the home.

(03-06-2015 05:47 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  You could call it Midwest, you could call it the North, you could call it whatever you like. I prefer calling it the region of the country that is the most sane.

Those carp you have up there are pretty insane.

(03-07-2015 12:56 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 01:48 AM)opossum Wrote:  I can vouch for the Western Michigan beaches. I grew up in Northeast Florida (30 miles away from wide white sand Atlantic Ocean beaches), but visited relatives in the Muskegon area most every summer. I always preferred the beach in Michigan, if I'd ever had to pick one. Everyone seriously go check it out if you haven't.

And I've visited 9 of the 10 biggest US cities (never been to SoCal), and of them Chicago is hands down my favorite big city to visit. And a big part of it is the nice people. It's true and there's nothing condescending about that. I've lived my whole life on the East Coast (the Southern half, mind you) and I've never once had a thought of looking down on someone intellectually just because they were from the Midwest. People in Chicago when I visited were friendlier and more helpful when I visited then were people in New York. It seems smart to me to be friendly and helpful to people who are visiting your city and spending their money. I wind up helping people out on the DC (where I live now) Metro at least once a week.

The Midwest's problem is the weather. Only because of weather, I would absolutely never consider moving up there year-round (but if I win the lottery there's a summer lake house in Holland with my name on it). Why deal with even more snow? I get more than my fill of that in the DC area.

If you've never been to SoCal, that means you missed two of them, unless you mean 10 largest as measured by MSA.

(03-06-2015 01:48 AM)opossum Wrote:  London is the capital of the freaking world. Deal with it.

FIFY

I did measure it by MSA, and I've never been to San Diego or LA. I also never said that London was the "capital of the freaking world," so I have no idea where that's coming from. London's a great city, but I'd rather visit Chicago.

Again, I see nothing wrong with the "Midwest" label. It doesn't have a lot of panache and it's not the most scenic part if the country, but it's a great place to live. Two personal observations:

1) Everyone knows Chicago is a great city. When I lived there as a little kid, I loved going to Wrigley Field and the museums. It was a blast.

2) I used to handle homeowners' insurance claims on a national basis. The nicest homes/properties I saw were in Minnesota. It seems like half of their homes are on a lake.

(03-07-2015 03:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 06:02 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:46 AM)PirateJim Wrote:  What do you think of "Mid-North"? I consider NY, PA, Ohio, all of New England, MD, Delaware and NJ to be Northeast.

The thing is, western PA isn't exactly Northeast. Culturally speaking, Pittsburgh is more like Cleveland, Cincinnati, and even Detroit. Heck, SWPA even has a touch of the Appalachian tongue. We call it Pittsburghese n'at. I wouldn't call Pittsburgh a part of the Midwest, but it's certainly apart of the Rust Belt, which includes a couple of MW states just to our west.

Western PA is part of the Amish Buckle.

The great Amish Country that stretches from Central Illinois to Eastern PA and down to the Piedmont area of Virginia. Ohio is the capital providence of Amish Country.

You don't have to be Orthodox Amish to be part of the Amish Buckle.

If you like any of the following:

1) Farming especially Community Supported Agriculture.
2) Making your own clothing.
3) Using wood to make custom things for your home.
4) Collecting Antiques and displaying the all over your house.
5) Run a construction company or involved in the construction business.
5) Ancestors that liked or were involved with any of (1 through 5).

Then you are practicing Amish beliefs. There are a lot of groups that settled the Amish Buckle that were not out right Amish like that Mennonites that exhibit very similar cultural traits. There were also a lot of religious communities in that region that were organized around communal trade.

The cities of the Amish Buckle of course have other economic elements mixed in like heavy industry, state and local government, service industry and have brought people in from the outside. But many of those people in the cities have moved up and off the farm after going to their beloved state school (Penn St, WVU, VT, Ohio St, Indiana, Kentucky) and continue to work with their hands around the home.

I was born and raised in Southwestern Pennsylvania.

If the "Amish Buckle" exists, then it skipped over that area.

I don't like to do any of the things you list.

There are Amish to the east of Pittsburgh near Lancaster.

There are Amish to the west of Pittsburgh in eastern Ohio.

There are no Amish in Western Pennsylvania or the Pittsburgh area, unless they are Stealth Amish.

(03-08-2015 02:04 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 12:56 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 01:48 AM)opossum Wrote:  I can vouch for the Western Michigan beaches. I grew up in Northeast Florida (30 miles away from wide white sand Atlantic Ocean beaches), but visited relatives in the Muskegon area most every summer. I always preferred the beach in Michigan, if I'd ever had to pick one. Everyone seriously go check it out if you haven't.

And I've visited 9 of the 10 biggest US cities (never been to SoCal), and of them Chicago is hands down my favorite big city to visit. And a big part of it is the nice people. It's true and there's nothing condescending about that. I've lived my whole life on the East Coast (the Southern half, mind you) and I've never once had a thought of looking down on someone intellectually just because they were from the Midwest. People in Chicago when I visited were friendlier and more helpful when I visited then were people in New York. It seems smart to me to be friendly and helpful to people who are visiting your city and spending their money. I wind up helping people out on the DC (where I live now) Metro at least once a week.

The Midwest's problem is the weather. Only because of weather, I would absolutely never consider moving up there year-round (but if I win the lottery there's a summer lake house in Holland with my name on it). Why deal with even more snow? I get more than my fill of that in the DC area.

If you've never been to SoCal, that means you missed two of them, unless you mean 10 largest as measured by MSA.

(03-06-2015 01:48 AM)opossum Wrote:  London is the capital of the freaking world. Deal with it.

FIFY

I did measure it by MSA, and I've never been to San Diego or LA. I also never said that London was the "capital of the freaking world," so I have no idea where that's coming from. London's a great city, but I'd rather visit Chicago.

Not me, sorry. While I am at it, I'd rather visit Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dublin than Chicago, (and have) as well.

I've been to Chicago many times and enjoyed it but would rather visit the cities above again than visit Chicago again.

Its all "to each his own", I guess.

Terry D I know you aren't Amish but there were beard cutting raids from Samuel Mullett's clan into the WV panhandle-SW PA area.

Quote:On the night of Oct. 4, Myron and Arlene Miller were asleep in their home in Mechanicstown, Ohio, when they heard a knock on the door. According to their friend Bob Comer, when Myron came downstairs, he found five men standing on his doorstep.

"They pulled him out in the front yard, and they have scissors and a battery-powered shaver and everything," Comer says. "They're trying to hold him down and cut his beard off and cut his hair off."

Miller yelled at his wife to call 911. Then the men let him go and ran back to the trailer and had the driver take off, Comer says.

Myron Miller, who declined an interview, was left with a ragged beard: a shameful state for an Amish man.

"The beard for Amish men is a symbol of their adult manhood," says Donald Kraybill, a sociologist at Elizabethtown College and author of several books about the Amish, including Amish Grace and Concise Encyclopedia of Amish, Brethren, Hutterites, and Mennonites.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/19/141526277/...nter-group

Quote:The rolling farmlands north of Pittsburgh, in Lawrence County, are Amish country -- a place where almost 2,000 Old-Order Amish make their home on the farms that surround the quaint villages of New Wilmington and Volant. A back roads' drive through the Amish countryside provides a glimpse of their peaceful life. The Old-Order Amish community in Lawrence County is the third largest in the United States.

The Amish community in Lawrence County, Pennsylvania, is made up of thirteen Amish schools and fourteen church districts. Each district has an average of 75 adult members, plus children. Most of the Amish in Lawrence County are agricultural or dairy farmers and can often be seen plowing their fields with horses or tending the cattle. Amish buggies are commonly seen on area roads, and shops in Volant and New Wilmington, as well as roadside stands sell Amish goods.

http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/amish/p/n...ington.htm

There are definitely Amish in Western PA.

Quote:On December 22, 1804, the first payment on land in Butler County, PA was made. The land was not the most desirable; it was on the non-navigable Connoquenessing Creek, 30 miles north of Pittsburgh. The Harmonists could not secure as much land in one unbrok en area as they needed. During the winter of 1805, 31 families arrived and began work. On February 15, 1805, Articles of Association were signed and the Harmony Society came into being with about 500 members. This did not include those followers still in Ohio, most of whom later sued to regain their funds placed in Rapp's common treasury. [Note: According to Arndt, although the founding date of the Society is correct, the Art icles were prepared later and backdated, possibly as evidence in a lawsuit of the 1820s.] In 1805 Rapp officially adopted Frederick Reichert as his son. Frederick became the invaluable business manager for this community-organized religious sect. Growth was slow at first, for the group was relatively poor and did not expect to remain in Pennsylvania for long. But when Rapp's request for government land in Ohio was turned town in 1806, development picked up quickly.

George Rapp was accepted as the spiritual and organizational head of the Society. After 1809, his followers began to address him as "Father." He preached, heard confessions, led prayers and religious discussion, and advised in spiritual matters. Rapp also knew much about agriculture and manufacturing and was involved in all details of daily life in Harmony.

In 1807-1808 a religious revival occurred. From the late 1790s Rapp had preached that the second coming of Christ was imminent. Rapp saw the prophecy of the "Book of Revelation" being fulfilled in historical events of his time, especially those dealing wi th the rise of Napoleon. To purify themselves for Christ's advent, the Harmonists gave up tobacco, and adopted a chaste or celibate life. The last marriage on record until 1817 is that of George Rapp's son John in 1807.

By 1815 the Society had planted orchards, vineyards, fields of grain, and tended merino sheep. The Harmonists, who became American citizens, operated several mills, a brewery, a tannery, and manufactured woolen cloth. The Harmony Inn accommodated visitors and the general store provided supplies for the community members. Each family had its own house on a quarter acre lot. A school was held, and a small brass band was formed. Religious services were held twice on Sunday a nd once in mid-week in the brick church, constructed in 1808, on the town square.
http://maxkade.iupui.edu/newharmony/harmony-pa.html

The Harmonist are an example of a group that was similar to the Amish settling in the same area. They moved on to Indiana later to maximize trade along the Mississippi River.

Quote:Vanderbilt students begin their Executive MBA experience with a rigorous one-week residency in New Harmony, Indiana. Intentionally remote from the everyday demands of personal and professional life, this historic community provides the perfect backdrop for full immersion in the program from the outset. Founded in 1825 as a base for a Utopian society, social reformers, scientists, philosophers, artists, educators and geologists arrived on the "Boatload of Knowledge" to this wilderness town along the Wabash River; they believed that education for all was the key to a better way of life. New Harmony serves that role today for our Vanderbilt Executive MBA program—it is a key to a better way of life that benefits our students, their families and their organizations.

http://www.owen.vanderbilt.edu/programs/...idence.cfm

London is the capital of the world in terms of financials. That is probably what C2 was getting at. Looks like his quote train got a little messy there is all. He was right too, London IS the capital of the world in terms of financials. That's why Britain stuck with the pound. But anyways, that is quite off topic.

Following up on this topic, here's a very thoughtful and in-depth piece on Minnesota and the "North" branding that was brought up in the OP's article. It's lengthy, but goes into many of the issues that we have discussed here. It's a good perspective about how the Midwest (or "North") does need to do a much better job in marketing, but that we also can't be lulled into thinking that it's *just* about marketing and there are a lot of substantive issues to address in order to compete with the coasts:

http://www.urbanophile.com/2015/03/04/ca...ferdecker/

(03-08-2015 11:05 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  London is the capital of the world in terms of financials. That is probably what C2 was getting at. Looks like his quote train got a little messy there is all. He was right too, London IS the capital of the world in terms of financials. That's why Britain stuck with the pound. But anyways, that is quite off topic.

I was just messing around and he didn't pick up the humor (whether it was funny is another story).

(03-05-2015 02:46 PM)goofus Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/opinion/co...minnesota/

Minnesota thinks so.

And does that mean its time to rebrand the BigTen the Big North?

No. It should be rebranded as the void between the north and the west coast.

*except for Cincinatti, Chicago, Louisville, and Milwaukee (I'm in a generous mood)

(03-08-2015 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 03:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 06:02 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:46 AM)PirateJim Wrote:  What do you think of "Mid-North"? I consider NY, PA, Ohio, all of New England, MD, Delaware and NJ to be Northeast.

The thing is, western PA isn't exactly Northeast. Culturally speaking, Pittsburgh is more like Cleveland, Cincinnati, and even Detroit. Heck, SWPA even has a touch of the Appalachian tongue. We call it Pittsburghese n'at. I wouldn't call Pittsburgh a part of the Midwest, but it's certainly apart of the Rust Belt, which includes a couple of MW states just to our west.

Western PA is part of the Amish Buckle.

The great Amish Country that stretches from Central Illinois to Eastern PA and down to the Piedmont area of Virginia. Ohio is the capital providence of Amish Country.

You don't have to be Orthodox Amish to be part of the Amish Buckle.

If you like any of the following:

1) Farming especially Community Supported Agriculture.
2) Making your own clothing.
3) Using wood to make custom things for your home.
4) Collecting Antiques and displaying the all over your house.
5) Run a construction company or involved in the construction business.
5) Ancestors that liked or were involved with any of (1 through 5).

Then you are practicing Amish beliefs. There are a lot of groups that settled the Amish Buckle that were not out right Amish like that Mennonites that exhibit very similar cultural traits. There were also a lot of religious communities in that region that were organized around communal trade.

The cities of the Amish Buckle of course have other economic elements mixed in like heavy industry, state and local government, service industry and have brought people in from the outside. But many of those people in the cities have moved up and off the farm after going to their beloved state school (Penn St, WVU, VT, Ohio St, Indiana, Kentucky) and continue to work with their hands around the home.

I was born and raised in Southwestern Pennsylvania.

If the "Amish Buckle" exists, then it skipped over that area.

I don't like to do any of the things you list.

There are Amish to the east of Pittsburgh near Lancaster.

There are Amish to the west of Pittsburgh in eastern Ohio.

There are no Amish in Western Pennsylvania or the Pittsburgh area, unless they are Stealth Amish.

+1

(03-06-2015 04:39 AM)goofus Wrote:  Worst 10 major cities in terms of murder rate

1. Detroit Mich. - 45 murders per 100,000 people (315 murders total)
2. New Orleans LA - 41
3. Newark NJ - 40
4. St Loius Mo - 38
5. Baltimore Md - 37
6. Birrimgham AL - 30
7. Cincy OH - 24
8. Oakland CA - 22
9. Baton Rouge - 21
10. Kansas City Mo -21

Other notables

national average - 5 murders per 100,000

most total murders of any city
Chicago - 500 total murders , or
19 murders per 100,000

Worst rate of smaller cities
East St Louis - 86 murders per 100,00
Flint, Mi - 62 murders per 100,000

Also of note.
Washington, DC, which held the title of Murder capitol as recently as 1999, is now down to 13 murders per 100,000

Murders in all cities are down dramatically since the early 90's. A trend that Freakinomics credits to abortion being legalized in 1974. That theory is a little controversial.

New York City's total murders have plummetted from 2245 in 1991 to less than 400 in 2013.

Notable cities for lying about their crime statistics:

New York
Los Angeles

Hell Chicago is joining the "lying about crime" stats club too.

I grewup and still live in Chicago. I have lived in Los Angeles and I visit friends in NYC from time to time; and without a doubt NYC and LA are just as dangerous if not more so than Chicago, but those cities do a better job of lying about crime and doing bs public relations.

I've heard stories about NYC cops letting people smoke you-know-what in the open and walking by them.

(03-10-2015 06:17 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I've heard stories about NYC cops letting people smoke you-know-what in the open and walking by them.

Crime stats are all about how things are categorized. Chicago cops are pulling a New York cops crime reduction plan at this very moment. You make people like Frank think that they are safe then they will start believing that they are safe. The whole time they are still as unsafe as ever, but Frank will think that he is safe as long as he doesn't have to see the unwashed masses that make Chicago and New York the great cities that they are.