(03-05-2015 06:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:35 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:20 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So...what would be cheaper? This...or rounding all them up and deporting them? I'd bet the former.

It would be impossible to round them up and deport them.

I really don't even have a beef with giving them greencards or work VISAs to legally work here and have them pay taxes...

but that article was a dishonest with regard to the total cost of allowing them legal status unless with making them legal we would deny them any additional benefits i.e. welfare, SNAP, healthcare, etc.

I also don't think they should ever have a path to citizenship. Their children born on US soil, yes. The felons who broke our laws by crossing our borders, no. Plenty of immigrants wait YEARS to come here legally. It would be a huge slap in the face to them to allow felons who broke the laws that they followed citizenship.

I pretty much agree with you...but since past administrations (and this one too) and scores of sessions of congress have continually ignored this issue as to any form of meaningful legislation to address the problem...we have the mess we're in that really has no great solution left.

So...pass a bill that the President will sign. They're actually not that far apart when you get down to it!

But again, a great start would be to start prosecuting the employers who provide an income opportunity to these illegals that encourages them to come here. This can be done with laws already in place.

Yes to the bolded.
Some illegals would go back to their home countries if the work dried up.

...and no path to citizenship if legal worker status is granted for the law breakers.

And that is exactly what Romney was talking about when he suggested "self-deportation" and was roundly ridiculed by the leftist lap-dog media.

And Tom actually swerved onto the solution there at the end- enforce the laws we already have. Simple as that. We don't need any BIG asss, further bloated bureaucracy "comprehensive immigration reform".
As you pick them up or they come into whatever system they may come into- answering fake jobs ads, bring their anchor babies to elementary school, welfare office, whatever, check their cards, if they're here illegally off they go to "Camp Schithole" for a nice 30 day period then onto the bus and to the border.

If/when they cross over again and get caught- 6 months at Camp Schithole, $500 fine or more, and a promise with a kiss that if found again it will be 5 years and $100,000 fine. Then off to the border with that busload.

We need to make it waaaay to expensive, waaaay to risky and way to uncomfortable to continue to border jump. They'll eventually see it for what it is- a losing proposition.

This is, of course, after we seal the border, at least one way and make public announcements on Telemundo, at the local Latin Market, leaflets, schools etc.

NOW, in return for that we also set up larger scale field offices at the highest traffic border areas and streamline the process A LOT for work visas's, seasonal employment, Green cards perhaps, maybe even easily recognizable temporary Drivers licenses and some kind of registry. If you over stay, fall "off the grid" or commit crimes etc., see above.

Course to facilitate that the field offices would necessarily need to be private enterprises with plenty of checks and audits at the ready to avoid any funny business.

Enforce the laws.

You were saying...

Quote:Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus told reporters Friday that Mitt Romney's comment about "self-deportation" at a 2012 presidential primary debate was "horrific."

"Using the word 'self-deportation' — I mean, it's a horrific comment to make," Priebus said at the RNC meeting in Boston, according to audio provided by Business Insider. "It's not something that has anything to do with our party. But when a candidate makes those comments, obviously it hurts us."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...-horrific/

(03-05-2015 06:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 06:06 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:35 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 05:20 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  It would be impossible to round them up and deport them.

I really don't even have a beef with giving them greencards or work VISAs to legally work here and have them pay taxes...

but that article was a dishonest with regard to the total cost of allowing them legal status unless with making them legal we would deny them any additional benefits i.e. welfare, SNAP, healthcare, etc.

I also don't think they should ever have a path to citizenship. Their children born on US soil, yes. The felons who broke our laws by crossing our borders, no. Plenty of immigrants wait YEARS to come here legally. It would be a huge slap in the face to them to allow felons who broke the laws that they followed citizenship.

I pretty much agree with you...but since past administrations (and this one too) and scores of sessions of congress have continually ignored this issue as to any form of meaningful legislation to address the problem...we have the mess we're in that really has no great solution left.

So...pass a bill that the President will sign. They're actually not that far apart when you get down to it!

But again, a great start would be to start prosecuting the employers who provide an income opportunity to these illegals that encourages them to come here. This can be done with laws already in place.

Yes to the bolded.
Some illegals would go back to their home countries if the work dried up.

...and no path to citizenship if legal worker status is granted for the law breakers.

And that is exactly what Romney was talking about when he suggested "self-deportation" and was roundly ridiculed by the leftist lap-dog media.

And Tom actually swerved onto the solution there at the end- enforce the laws we already have. Simple as that. We don't need any BIG asss, further bloated bureaucracy "comprehensive immigration reform".
As you pick them up or they come into whatever system they may come into- answering fake jobs ads, bring their anchor babies to elementary school, welfare office, whatever, check their cards, if they're here illegally off they go to "Camp Schithole" for a nice 30 day period then onto the bus and to the border.

If/when they cross over again and get caught- 6 months at Camp Schithole, $500 fine or more, and a promise with a kiss that if found again it will be 5 years and $100,000 fine. Then off to the border with that busload.

We need to make it waaaay to expensive, waaaay to risky and way to uncomfortable to continue to border jump. They'll eventually see it for what it is- a losing proposition.

This is, of course, after we seal the border, at least one way and make public announcements on Telemundo, at the local Latin Market, leaflets, schools etc.

NOW, in return for that we also set up larger scale field offices at the highest traffic border areas and streamline the process A LOT for work visas's, seasonal employment, Green cards perhaps, maybe even easily recognizable temporary Drivers licenses and some kind of registry. If you over stay, fall "off the grid" or commit crimes etc., see above.

Course to facilitate that the field offices would necessarily need to be private enterprises with plenty of checks and audits at the ready to avoid any funny business.

Enforce the laws.

You were saying...

Quote:Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus told reporters Friday that Mitt Romney's comment about "self-deportation" at a 2012 presidential primary debate was "horrific."

"Using the word 'self-deportation' — I mean, it's a horrific comment to make," Priebus said at the RNC meeting in Boston, according to audio provided by Business Insider. "It's not something that has anything to do with our party. But when a candidate makes those comments, obviously it hurts us."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...-horrific/

So what? So Rinse didn't understand what Romney was talking about either and thought he was going into CYA mode.

Doesn't change that it was made into some kind of "round 'em all up and put 'em all on trains for the border" garbage when clearly that wasn't it at all. Another manufactured "scandal" that becomes a week long LEAD STORY!!! BREAKING NEWS!!! Right along the lines of whether he tussled some kids hair in HS or that he had resumes for employment possibilities for women for his staff.

That and some G-town law student, at $50,000+ per year, having someone else pay so she could get her tramp on were the important issues of the day for a Presidential election. Great. Just great.

(03-05-2015 04:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:Obama’s immigration order overall is actually expected to bring in almost $20 billion in new revenue over a 10-year period after implementation, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. That’s because new immigrants would be paying into Social Security and having taxes withheld from paychecks.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/03/04/25...rylink=cpy

How Much additional expense will the ILLEGALS add? If they are paying social security tax that means they'll be eligible for all the gubment freebees including Obamacare subsidies. If the ILLEGALS have kids they'll qualify for EIC credit if their low income which I'm betting they will be. The EIC basically eliminates the impact of social security taxes for those who qualify.

(03-05-2015 05:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So...what would be cheaper? This...or rounding all them up and deporting them? I'd bet the former.

You don't have to round anybody up. Start enforcing I9 laws when ILLEGALS have no source of income they'll go home on their own.

Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.

So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.

So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

There you go again ... making sense. But the Dems would never go for that. They've put a lot of time and energy into their effort to make the illegals citizens so they can vote.

Of course, if they fail to get citizenship for the illegals, they'll figure out a way to let them vote anyway. That would be a more difficult process.

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

I've always felt that if you provided a guest VISA program from workers to make legal entry, the illegal crossings would be reduced to manageable levels.

(03-05-2015 11:23 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

There you go again ... making sense. But the Dems would never go for that. They've put a lot of time and energy into their effort to make the illegals citizens so they can vote.

Of course, if they fail to get citizenship for the illegals, they'll figure out a way to let them vote anyway. That would be a more difficult process.

I would support that 100%. Of course I'm not a Democrat.

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

What do you do if they don't work? Then deport?

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

I would agree with you on this if that was feasible.....disclaimer: can't say it isn't feasible either (cost basis)....my brain doesn't have the tolerance to work in micro anymore....sometimes I wish it did...

other than that, why we aren't paying more attention to the overall problem (border control) is pure politico and gnaws at my craw....

I despise what is happening right now for my child....it's the cross I bear daily for allowing that to happen....

(03-06-2015 10:48 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

What do you do if they don't work? Then deport?

Yes. We have enough deadbeat American citizens to break the bank now - no point in allowing them to stay in country if they don't work.

NEVER allow them to vote.

Yes - fix the g'damn immigration system to allow an orderly flow of them to come and work. It's a big part of why they come illegally, hell they would all be dead of starvation for as long as it takes to legally enter the country.

Why am I not surprised that there would be an unacceptably long line to legally enter the country - every time I go to the DMV there's an unacceptably long line. Why, because speed and efficiency is not part of any government entity - they don't have to, if they suck they don't go out of business like the private sector.

(03-06-2015 12:51 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:48 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:03 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 10:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Number one, we can't round them up and deport them. Even if we could on our end, where are we going to deport them TO? Mexico? What happens to Mexico if we dump 5 or 10 or 20 million illegals, whatever the number is, back there? Anarchy? Only about a 95% chance of that.
So, like it or not, we are stuck with them. Now, what do we do about it?

Can't we just start picking them off at the boarder? Serious question. I mean isn't this sort of an invasion at this point?

We need to solidify the border to keep more from coming here.

The ones that are here, register them and give them permanent guest worker status. No path to citizenship, no welfare, but as long as they work they can stay here.

What do you do if they don't work? Then deport?

Yes. We have enough deadbeat American citizens to break the bank now - no point in allowing them to stay in country if they don't work.

NEVER allow them to vote.

Done. Non-citizens can't vote. As Owl says...he wants no path to citizenship.