A recent post got me thinking... what are some stupid rules, and what should there be rules against? Also what do some of the rules mean...
A few that have me scratching my head are as follows...
1.) The circle under the basket. Do both feet need to be in the circle for it to be 100% blocking foul? Is it the heals? Is that a reviewable play? It happened to Akron vs. Toledo. Refs said their player was in the circle, but it was his heals barely.... the guy had position but got whistled.

2.) Running the baseline on a set out of bounds call. The announcers of the UB -Toledo game complained our guys were shuffling our feet once handed the ball. The announcer then went on to say later than each player gets three feet to move... which made him sound like an idiot. Either way, hows come players don't utilize that more. 3 feet would have gotten around the 7'4 guy from Kent State!!!

3.) When to and when not to call a carry. It happens on every possession! It was called twice in our BG game this year, and always gets boo's because the rarity of the call although its a common move. Why such little enforcement?
3b.) switching pivot foots when taking inbounds passes at the top of the key. Lots of guards take 2 or 3 steps before putting down the ball, and I'm always the only one yelling TRAVEL!! Do refs ever pay attention to that?

4.) What's the difference between a Euro step, an up and down, and picking up your dribble to look around then jumping just because technically its a euro step just spaced out?

I know if you're Cha Sweeney you can pick up the ball and run with it. Same for Janice and Jay-Ann. Never saw so many failures to call traveling as I did at EMU. The one that makes me crazy is the arm bar: OK for the offensive player to push off with forearm above the key but not below.

(02-23-2015 08:35 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  A recent post got me thinking... what are some stupid rules, and what should there be rules against? Also what do some of the rules mean...
A few that have me scratching my head are as follows...
1.) The circle under the basket. Do both feet need to be in the circle for it to be 100% blocking foul? Is it the heals? Is that a reviewable play? It happened to Akron vs. Toledo. Refs said their player was in the circle, but it was his heals barely.... the guy had position but got whistled.

2.) Running the baseline on a set out of bounds call. The announcers of the UB -Toledo game complained our guys were shuffling our feet once handed the ball. The announcer then went on to say later than each player gets three feet to move... which made him sound like an idiot. Either way, hows come players don't utilize that more. 3 feet would have gotten around the 7'4 guy from Kent State!!!

3.) When to and when not to call a carry. It happens on every possession! It was called twice in our BG game this year, and always gets boo's because the rarity of the call although its a common move. Why such little enforcement?
3b.) switching pivot foots when taking inbounds passes at the top of the key. Lots of guards take 2 or 3 steps before putting down the ball, and I'm always the only one yelling TRAVEL!! Do refs ever pay attention to that?

4.) What's the difference between a Euro step, an up and down, and picking up your dribble to look around then jumping just because technically its a euro step just spaced out?

1. Any part of the foot on or in any part of the circle is the rule, but it's not enforced uniformly in college, so it creates controversy. If the refs just called it based on the written rules, there would not be any argument with the half circle (which is a good addition to the court and a good rule).

2. The Buffalo announcers are morons. It's one thing to be homers, but it's another to just spout off so definitively and be completely wrong. The three-foot rule (can't remember if that's the actual written rule) is basically there to allow the inbounder to step and pass. You can also move as far back as you would like (which is what UT did at the end vs. Kent when the coaches had the bench players clearing chairs and other items behind the inbounder. It really doesn't matter if somebody "shuffles their feet" when they aren't gaining any sort of advantage. Baseline violations by inbounders are probably the easiest violations to call because when they happen (running the baseline or stepping inbounds) they are blatantly obvious.

3. It's a judgement call, but it's whenever the ball comes to rest in a player's hand(s). A player doesn't have to dribble with his hand directly over the ball at all times and that's where a lot of fans misunderstand the rule. Carrying doesn't happen on every possession, not even close. If the player has his hand on the side of the ball while dribbling and the ball is constantly in motion, there's no violation.
3b. Sometimes it's a matter of when the ball is actually completely caught and in possession. But travels are missed on plays like that.

4. Euro step is perfectly legal. I can't figure out what you're talking about with the other scenarios in this point.

The biggest issue I have with refs in college is consistency. Each ref does it the way he wants to and that way may change from game to game. Also, with 350 teams and three refs per game, you're going to have some bad refs mixed in there. You can have a two good refs teamed with a weak ref or a ref who is just off his game that day, and it reflects poorly on everybody.

It's a tough situation to find a solution for, particularly because of the volume of refs and the geographic area that needs to be covered. Every ref is an independent contractor and every conference assigns its own refs based on whatever criteria that is determined by the conference. There is very little oversight and accountability in a structure like this.

It's not an easy job, but it's also not rocket science. Go out there and enforce the rules. I was a high school ref for a while before moving to North Carolina, so I've been there on a smaller stage. I think fans go too crazy over the refs, but it's also disappointing to see how spotty the refs have been with rules like the half circle and other rules where there is no gray area.

3b.) A carry should be when a player heads to the basket and doesn't put the ball down enough times per every two steps he has. The ball is resting on players hands for a long time, but guards do it with such regularity and smoothness that it looks normal.

4.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgnckaK98qw Great video on how it isn't a travel... But why is two steps the rule. That should eliminate travels, because you should be able to pick up the ball and walk two more steps then shoot. I see women get called for it all the time when they receive the ball in front of the three point line, they don't dribble take two steps back and shoot the three. By the same rule it should be legal! If I ever moved a pivot foot, I'd continue stepping through and shoot.... that's two steps!?

A hop step should be an up and down or a walk as well. Just like a power dribble should be a "double dribble." For the most part I understand the rules and what these calls look like obviously. But the way they are termed creates grey area and creates discussion for every losing team ever. We saw that in the WMU game. Basketball has the weirdest rules because so many are judgement.

(02-23-2015 12:23 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  3b.) A carry should be when a player heads to the basket and doesn't put the ball down enough times per every two steps he has. The ball is resting on players hands for a long time, but guards do it with such regularity and smoothness that it looks normal.

Then you're punishing a player simply because they have foot speed or can have a tall dribble without it getting stolen or a combination of both. You don't trust refs to call traveling when the ball isn't in motion, but now you want them to count steps and where they are in the dribble at the same time? That's asking a lot. Coaches, players, refs, and the mass majority of fans would be dead against that rule.

The carrying rule was a point of emphasis in the NCAA about four or five years ago (maybe a bit longer ago). Things have been much cleaner with that rule since then.

(02-23-2015 08:35 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  A recent post got me thinking... what are some stupid rules, and what should there be rules against? Also what do some of the rules mean...play? It happened to Akron vs. Toledo. Refs said their player was in
A few that have me scratching my head are as follows...
1.) The circle under the basket. Do both feet need to be in the circle for it to be 100% blocking foul? Is it the heals? Is that a reviewable the circle, but it was his heals barely.... the guy had position but got whistled.

2.) Running the baseline on a set out of bounds call. The announcers of the UB -Toledo game complained our guys were shuffling our feet once handed the ball. The announcer then went on to say later than each player gets three feet to move... which made him sound like an idiot. Either way, hows come players don't utilize that more. 3 feet would have gotten around the 7'4 guy from Kent State!!!

3.) When to and when not to call a carry. It happens on every possession! It was called twice in our BG game this year, and always gets boo's because the rarity of the call although its a common move. Why such little enforcement?
3b.) switching pivot foots when taking inbounds passes at the top of the key. Lots of guards take 2 or 3 steps before putting down the ball, and I'm always the only one yelling TRAVEL!! Do refs ever pay attention to that?

4.) What's the difference between a Euro step, an up and down, and picking up your dribble to look around then jumping just because technically its a euro step just spaced out?

You brought up some great points and have gotten some good responses. The only thing I would add on the out of bounds question, is that a lot depends on whether the ball is spotted (handed the ball by the official, who identifies the spot to inbound the ball). The rule changes if a player picks it up after a made shot to inbound it.

When I coached we used an out of bounds play, where the player inbounding the ball passed along the baseline to another player who had stepped out of bounds along the same baseline on the other side of the basket. The passer them broke in to the playing area to receive a return pass. It was always fun to hear the fans from the opposing team screaming at the officials. One thing I always did before hand was warn the officials we might run that play, just to make sure they were aware of the rule allowing it. To their credit, every official knew the rule. I saw this last week in a college game for the first time at that level.

(02-23-2015 08:01 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 08:35 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  A recent post got me thinking... what are some stupid rules, and what should there be rules against? Also what do some of the rules mean...play? It happened to Akron vs. Toledo. Refs said their player was in
A few that have me scratching my head are as follows...
1.) The circle under the basket. Do both feet need to be in the circle for it to be 100% blocking foul? Is it the heals? Is that a reviewable the circle, but it was his heals barely.... the guy had position but got whistled.

2.) Running the baseline on a set out of bounds call. The announcers of the UB -Toledo game complained our guys were shuffling our feet once handed the ball. The announcer then went on to say later than each player gets three feet to move... which made him sound like an idiot. Either way, hows come players don't utilize that more. 3 feet would have gotten around the 7'4 guy from Kent State!!!

3.) When to and when not to call a carry. It happens on every possession! It was called twice in our BG game this year, and always gets boo's because the rarity of the call although its a common move. Why such little enforcement?
3b.) switching pivot foots when taking inbounds passes at the top of the key. Lots of guards take 2 or 3 steps before putting down the ball, and I'm always the only one yelling TRAVEL!! Do refs ever pay attention to that?

4.) What's the difference between a Euro step, an up and down, and picking up your dribble to look around then jumping just because technically its a euro step just spaced out?

You brought up some great points and have gotten some good responses. The only thing I would add on the out of bounds question, is that a lot depends on whether the ball is spotted (handed the ball by the official, who identifies the spot to inbound the ball). The rule changes if a player picks it up after a made shot to inbound it.

When I coached we used an out of bounds play, where the player inbounding the ball passed along the baseline to another player who had stepped out of bounds along the same baseline on the other side of the basket. The passer them broke in to the playing area to receive a return pass. It was always fun to hear the fans from the opposing team screaming at the officials. One thing I always did before hand was warn the officials we might run that play, just to make sure they were aware of the rule allowing it. To their credit, every official knew the rule. I saw this last week in a college game for the first time at that level.

Either UT or WMU did the out of bounds pass last week. A little unusual but legal.

(02-23-2015 08:12 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 08:01 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 08:35 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  A recent post got me thinking... what are some stupid rules, and what should there be rules against? Also what do some of the rules mean...play? It happened to Akron vs. Toledo. Refs said their player was in
A few that have me scratching my head are as follows...
1.) The circle under the basket. Do both feet need to be in the circle for it to be 100% blocking foul? Is it the heals? Is that a reviewable the circle, but it was his heals barely.... the guy had position but got whistled.

2.) Running the baseline on a set out of bounds call. The announcers of the UB -Toledo game complained our guys were shuffling our feet once handed the ball. The announcer then went on to say later than each player gets three feet to move... which made him sound like an idiot. Either way, hows come players don't utilize that more. 3 feet would have gotten around the 7'4 guy from Kent State!!!

3.) When to and when not to call a carry. It happens on every possession! It was called twice in our BG game this year, and always gets boo's because the rarity of the call although its a common move. Why such little enforcement?
3b.) switching pivot foots when taking inbounds passes at the top of the key. Lots of guards take 2 or 3 steps before putting down the ball, and I'm always the only one yelling TRAVEL!! Do refs ever pay attention to that?

4.) What's the difference between a Euro step, an up and down, and picking up your dribble to look around then jumping just because technically its a euro step just spaced out?

You brought up some great points and have gotten some good responses. The only thing I would add on the out of bounds question, is that a lot depends on whether the ball is spotted (handed the ball by the official, who identifies the spot to inbound the ball). The rule changes if a player picks it up after a made shot to inbound it.

When I coached we used an out of bounds play, where the player inbounding the ball passed along the baseline to another player who had stepped out of bounds along the same baseline on the other side of the basket. The passer them broke in to the playing area to receive a return pass. It was always fun to hear the fans from the opposing team screaming at the officials. One thing I always did before hand was warn the officials we might run that play, just to make sure they were aware of the rule allowing it. To their credit, every official knew the rule. I saw this last week in a college game for the first time at that level.

Either UT or WMU did the out of bounds pass last week. A little unusual but legal.

I thought it was Kent under the south basket....

(02-24-2015 10:41 AM)Terry Wrote:  I thought it was Kent under the south basket....

I think so too Terry. Had never seen that before and the wife and I went "WTF". Didn't seem right and we certainly weren't ready for that.

(02-24-2015 11:26 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(02-24-2015 10:41 AM)Terry Wrote:  I thought it was Kent under the south basket....

I think so too Terry. Had never seen that before and the wife and I went "WTF". Didn't seem right and we certainly weren't ready for that.

I've seen it a number of times over the years. in high school and in college games

Could be Kent. i'm old and forgetf

(02-24-2015 11:39 AM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-24-2015 11:26 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(02-24-2015 10:41 AM)Terry Wrote:  I thought it was Kent under the south basket....

I think so too Terry. Had never seen that before and the wife and I went "WTF". Didn't seem right and we certainly weren't ready for that.

I've seen it a number of times over the years. in high school and in college games

It is always fun to listen and watch the crowds reaction!