2nd ranked and undefeated Missouri of the MAC takes on Iowa tomorrow for the National championship in a dual match situation. This should be a very good wrestling tourney. Both are undefeated and Missouri is ranked #6 in the nation to a #1 ranked Iowa team.

(02-21-2015 11:55 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  2nd ranked and undefeated Missouri of the MAC takes on Iowa tomorrow for the National championship in a dual match situation. This should be a very good wrestling tourney. Both are undefeated and Missouri is ranked #6 in the nation to a #1 ranked Iowa team.

Are they ranked #6 or #2?

sorry - ranked #2. Not sure what I was thinking about with the #6 I put in there.

The first match at 125 could determine the outcome. Alan Waters is ranked #1 in the nation for Missouri and he takes on Gilmer from Iowa who is ranked #3. Altogether, there are wrestlers ranked in the top 8 at nearly every weight class and the match-ups at a few of the weights will determine who takes the championship. Mizzou has 2 #1 ranked wrestlers in Waters and Jaden Cox, the returning national champ from last year at 197lbs where he won it as a true freshman (unheard of at that weight) and is undefeated this year. Iowa has a #1 ranked wrestler at 149 in Sorenson, a freshman who has beaten both finalists from last year at 149, including national champ Jason Tsirtsis of Northwestern (who won it last year as a RS freshman).

It's on the Big Ten network at 12:30 today.

(02-22-2015 08:27 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  sorry - ranked #2. Not sure what I was thinking about with the #6 I put in there.

The first match at 125 could determine the outcome. Alan Waters is ranked #1 in the nation for Missouri and he takes on Gilmer from Iowa who is ranked #3. Altogether, there are wrestlers ranked in the top 8 at nearly every weight class and the match-ups at a few of the weights will determine who takes the championship. Mizzou has 2 #1 ranked wrestlers in Waters and Jaden Cox, the returning national champ from last year at 197lbs where he won it as a true freshman (unheard of at that weight) and is undefeated this year. Iowa has a #1 ranked wrestler at 149 in Sorenson, a freshman who has beaten both finalists from last year at 149, including national champ Jason Tsirtsis of Northwestern (who won it last year as a RS freshman).

It's on the Big Ten network at 12:30 today.

Thanks for the update. I miss wrestling at UT. Not like I miss track, but I miss it.

Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

Has been for some time. You probably don't know about Hartwick either.....

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

(02-22-2015 11:04 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

Or will the rest of the MAC schools step up their recruiting and talent and perform better in the NCAA tournament? You either improve or get worse; staying the same isn't an option.

(02-22-2015 01:33 PM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 11:04 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

Or will the rest of the MAC schools step up their recruiting and talent and perform better in the NCAA tournament? You either improve or get worse; staying the same isn't an option.

Since Missouri has a gigantic budget and no MAC school makes a dime, I doubt anyone is going to be doing any stepping up.

(02-22-2015 03:57 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 01:33 PM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 11:04 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

Or will the rest of the MAC schools step up their recruiting and talent and perform better in the NCAA tournament? You either improve or get worse; staying the same isn't an option.

Since Missouri has a gigantic budget and no MAC school makes a dime, I doubt anyone is going to be doing any stepping up.

In mens soccer, West Virginia plays in the MAC. That didn't stop Akron from winning a national championship.

Missouri defeated Iowa today, but it was not for the NCAA championship. The national tournament is in March. Missouri will be ranked No 1 after today. That's great news for MAC wrestling.

(02-22-2015 05:26 PM)Henry Burlingame Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 03:57 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 01:33 PM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 11:04 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

Or will the rest of the MAC schools step up their recruiting and talent and perform better in the NCAA tournament? You either improve or get worse; staying the same isn't an option.

Since Missouri has a gigantic budget and no MAC school makes a dime, I doubt anyone is going to be doing any stepping up.

In mens soccer, West Virginia plays in the MAC. That didn't stop Akron from winning a national championship.

Missouri defeated Iowa today, but it was not for the NCAA championship. The national tournament is in March. Missouri will be ranked No 1 after today. That's great news for MAC wrestling.

That is not entirely correct. This was the national championship recognized by the NWCA (National Wrestling Coaches Association) based on a dual match set up. It is set up to recognize the best team - where all ten weights have to be wrestled (or forfeited) in order to win the match. The NCAA championships are based on individual results that rack up points for the school they wrestle for. In most cases, less than 6 wrestlers per team will earn points for the school they wrestle for. A lot of teams don't even qualify more than 2 wrestlers for the tourney. Theoretically, a 4 man team could win the team title if they all win a national championship. Same way in high school. They just started the team dual championships in Ohio 3 years ago.

It is a national championship, just not the way the NCAA long ago decided was the way a team championship would be decided. There has been a lot of talk bout eliminating the team scores at the NCAA championships, but I doubt that will ever happen.

I think this format is more exciting when you get down to the final 4. At the NCAA championships, the team titles are usually decided before the finals even begin.

(02-22-2015 03:57 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 01:33 PM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 11:04 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 09:18 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 08:47 AM)djsfw57 Wrote:  Missouri is in the MAC for wrestling? WTF is that all about?

along with Old Dominion and Northern Iowa. SEC does not have wrestling within the conference

As a wrestling fan, I never understood what "real" MAC schools got out of doing Missouri a favor. Now they will just dominate the MAC and others will have less of a chance to win an individual or team title.

Or will the rest of the MAC schools step up their recruiting and talent and perform better in the NCAA tournament? You either improve or get worse; staying the same isn't an option.

Since Missouri has a gigantic budget and no MAC school makes a dime, I doubt anyone is going to be doing any stepping up.

Central Michigan was ranked 5th in the country a few years ago. Cornell has always been competitive in wrestling and it is unlikely they are dealing with much of a budget - but they offer a lot more in getting an education there. Missouri does help bring prestige to the conference - which helps recruiting for the member schools. The MAC is probably the 4th best conference in the country for wrestling.

Missouri has won the MAC the first 2 years of it's existence in the MAC - and will likely win it this year (in 2 weeks and on the Mizzou campus). In case you think they dominated - the scores last year were very close. I looked it up and this is what the results were:

1 Mizzou 118.5 points
2 Northern Iowa 116.0
3 Old Dominion 96.0
4. Ohio U. 94.5
5. Central Mich. 85.5

All the new invitees finished in the top 3, but it was not that long ago when CMU would have won the championship if those three had been in the league with them. I would expect to see EMU and Buffalo start to get more talent - along with NIU. Illinois is now one of the top states in the country for wrestling talent.

I think it is great for the MAC. Mizzou would have to be more concerned that the MAC will pull them down - so they have an interest in making sure they support the MAC and help elevate the status of the conference.

To give you some idea of how good that CMU team was in 2008, they had the following results at the NCAA individual championships:

2nd Wynn Michalik
4th Christian Sinnott
5th Brandon Sinnott
7th Bubba Gritter

4 wrestlers gained All-American status that year and a couple of others finished well and scored points, but did not make the top 8 spots to become an All-American. They finished tied for 7th in the country with Michigan - and only 10 points out of 2nd place. Had Michalik won the finals and C. Sinnott finished 3rd instead of losing his last match, they would probably have earned enough points to finish around 3rd. Missouri was 11th and Northern Iowa was 20th. Old Dominion tied for 35th with Northern Illinois.

Could there possibly be a better wrestling name than Bubba Gritter?

Toledo had six top 20 team finishes at the NCAA championships, including fourth one year. And that's when there were a lot more DI schools. Two national champions, two Olympians plus one of the most legendary and influential coaches in the history of collegiate and international wrestling, who was the US Olympic team coach, national AAU president and founder of Greco Roman wrestling in the US.

The Field House and Centennial Hall/Savage Hall hosted 17 Wrestling World Cup Tournaments featuring to top teams from each continent in a dual meet format. UT also hosted the World Wrestling Championships twice.

Nobody in the MAC has the wrestling history that UT has. Let's bring back the sport.

(02-23-2015 04:53 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Toledo had six top 20 team finishes at the NCAA championships, including fourth one year. And that's when there were a lot more DI schools. Two national champions, two Olympians plus one of the most legendary and influential coaches in the history of collegiate and international wrestling, who was the US Olympic team coach, national AAU president and founder of Greco Roman wrestling in the US.

The Field House and Centennial Hall/Savage Hall hosted 17 Wrestling World Cup Tournaments featuring to top teams from each continent in a dual meet format. UT also hosted the World Wrestling Championships twice.

Nobody in the MAC has the wrestling history that UT has. Let's bring back the sport.

Loved attending the World Cup. Exciting international event with the best in the world competing. I used to have a CCCP jersey I got in trade with a Soviet Union wrestler for a UT Track sweatshirt

(02-22-2015 11:26 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Could there possibly be a better wrestling name than Bubba Gritter?

Somebody ran a little contest on Yappi wrestling a few weeks ago to come up with the best wrestling names for this year. I can't remember them, but there were a few Matts (mat) that ranked pretty high - Like Matt Hammer and some others.

I saw Gritter wrestle in high school at the Palace for the state championship. I think he won 3 state titles in the smaller school division. He was big, but not necessarily athletic looking. He transformed himself a lot when he got to college and the competition was a lot tougher.

(02-22-2015 10:32 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  This was the national championship recognized by the NWCA (National Wrestling Coaches Association) based on a dual match set up. It is set up to recognize the best team - where all ten weights have to be wrestled (or forfeited) in order to win the match. The NCAA championships are based on individual results that rack up points for the school they wrestle for. In most cases, less than 6 wrestlers per team will earn points for the school they wrestle for. A lot of teams don't even qualify more than 2 wrestlers for the tourney. Theoretically, a 4 man team could win the team title if they all win a national championship.

It's an extremely competitive invitational, period.
So if a coaches association in any other sport (tennis, gymnastics, golf, etc.) decides to host this type of event, you think those should be regarded the same as an NCAA title?
How can you say "It is set up to recognize the best team" when only eight schools competed -- four from the Big Ten, two from Eastern Intercollegiate Wrestling Association, one MAC, and one Southern -- the lone entry without a Top 20 rating. It's by invitation, not any sort of criteria including qualification, region, etc.
Don't get me wrong, it's great Missouri wins it and represents the MAC, but when only four teams (2-Minnesota, 4-Iowa, 6-Ohio State, 7-Cornell) from the previous year's top 12 finishers are in an event and neither the defending champion (Penn State) or two-thirds of that top 12 don't take part, it's certainly not a "national" title.

(02-25-2015 10:28 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 10:32 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  This was the national championship recognized by the NWCA (National Wrestling Coaches Association) based on a dual match set up. It is set up to recognize the best team - where all ten weights have to be wrestled (or forfeited) in order to win the match. The NCAA championships are based on individual results that rack up points for the school they wrestle for. In most cases, less than 6 wrestlers per team will earn points for the school they wrestle for. A lot of teams don't even qualify more than 2 wrestlers for the tourney. Theoretically, a 4 man team could win the team title if they all win a national championship.

It's an extremely competitive invitational, period.
So if a coaches association in any other sport (tennis, gymnastics, golf, etc.) decides to host this type of event, you think those should be regarded the same as an NCAA title?
How can you say "It is set up to recognize the best team" when only eight schools competed -- four from the Big Ten, two from Eastern Intercollegiate Wrestling Association, one MAC, and one Southern -- the lone entry without a Top 20 rating. It's by invitation, not any sort of criteria including qualification, region, etc.
Don't get me wrong, it's great Missouri wins it and represents the MAC, but when only four teams (2-Minnesota, 4-Iowa, 6-Ohio State, 7-Cornell) from the previous year's top 12 finishers are in an event and neither the defending champion (Penn State) or two-thirds of that top 12 don't take part, it's certainly not a "national" title.

Well if you knew what you were talking about, I would take it seriously. Not every team is invited to participate in the dual team championships. It is sponsored by the NCAA, but is not regarded as the team championships because that is decided solely on the points gained by individuals in the national weight class championships. The sole purpose of that tournament is to determine the winner by weight class. It does not determine the best dual match team in which all 10 weight classes have to be wrestled and points awarded to the team based on the results of all 10 matches. If a team decides not to participate, they cannot win the championship. Penn State opted not to wrestle in this competition for the past 4 years when they won the national championship based on individual performances. It is likely they would have won the team championship in 2 of those 4 years. In the other years, they were beaten in team dual matches. In 2015, all of the top dual teams competed and it was a great series of team match-ups. Missouri is now ranked #1 in the country and is still ranked #1 heading into the individual national championships. They have 2 wrestlers favored to win championships, and will have strong showings in at least 4 other weight classes. #2 is Iowa, who was beaten by Missouri. #3 is Cornell who was beaten by Iowa and #4 is Ohio State who was beaten by Lehigh, but just tied Iowa for the Big Ten championship last weekend based on the individual scoring system. OSU would beat Iowa easily in the dual championship if both teams were at full strength without injuries. OSU only lost to Mizzou in a dual match because of injury issues. That is how it goes in team dual match formats. Best 10 wrestlers- the only criteria applied. The MAC won the championship based on team dual matches. That would not change if they re-ran the tourney today.

It would be helpful if you first got a clue - then posted something appropriate that shows you have some understanding of the sport and the standing of the NCWA with the NCAA. This was not a bunch of coaches that decided over a few beers to host a championship and only invite a few teams to participate. It is a bona fide tourney in which individuals gain or lose seeing levels based on how they perform in each of the team dual match "tourneys".

The whole point of the post was to identify a MAC team competing for a national championship in wrestling based on a dual match scoring championship. It is much the same as the top track and field teams competing against each other instead of deciding a championship based upon individual champions in a few of the events. As I have mentioned before, in high school a championship was decided in the past based on one team having 4 individuals winning state championship and not getting a single point out of the other 10 weight classes. In a dual match, they were destroyed by another team that was in the same league and only 20 miles away. The state of Ohio and many other states now award a championship based on team scores in a dual match. The NCAA is now doing the same through it's sponsorship of this tournament, but they will never do away with the national championships by weight class. Waaayy too much money involved when you can sell 10k to 13K tickets a session for 5 sessions in one weekend.