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Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

WTF does balance have to do with anything? If anything it makes scheduling worse because it would force less games between members. Clemson played GT one time last year in baseball. It was in the ACC tournament.

The question is does UConn basketball bring enough in to make it worth the ACC's while. Considering the current payout they are receiving in the AAC I have my doubts. Remember that basketball brings in approximately 20% of the current ACC contract.

And remember that the reason UConn isn't in the ACC already is because their football brings absolutely no value to that side of the conference. Why would they then want to lock themselves in to a game with them every three years or so?
02-21-2015 04:20 PM
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HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
Army returned to independence in the mid 2000's which is nearly this day and age. Of course, Army is a special case compared to other schools.
02-21-2015 04:24 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 04:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

WTF does balance have to do with anything? If anything it makes scheduling worse because it would force less games between members. Clemson played GT one time last year in baseball. It was in the ACC tournament.

The question is does UConn basketball bring enough in to make it worth the ACC's while. Considering the current payout they are receiving in the AAC I have my doubts. Remember that basketball brings in approximately 20% of the current ACC contract.

And remember that the reason UConn isn't in the ACC already is because their football brings absolutely no value to that side of the conference. Why would they then want to lock themselves in to a game with them every three years or so?

I think UCONN would bring enough value if the agreement is with a conference who has its own network. What UCONN doesn't lack right now is content across its athletics department. So right now, I think UCONN would only be valuable to the Big Ten. If the ACC gets a network (like people are predicting) or if the Longhorn Network is converted to a Big 12 Network, then there may be more options...
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2015 04:30 PM by HuskyU.)
02-21-2015 04:29 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?

Why would UCONN be interested in that?
02-21-2015 05:24 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #25
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 05:24 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?

Why would UCONN be interested in that?

Because ACC membership would probably put to rest any questions about whether they could retain their lofty hoops status. Whether you believe there should even be such questions or not, would you be willing to bet the ranch that they can if you had the chance to virtually assure it by joining the ACC?
02-21-2015 05:34 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
I have a thread speculating on the return to the independent age and for quite a few programs I do think it could make sense.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-714478.html

One of the things with programs in the NE at the G5 level you have varied situations

Army (Independent FB, oly sports Patriot)
Massachusetts (MAC FB, oly sports A10)
Connecticut (all sports AAC)
Temple (allsports AAC)
Navy (AAC FB, oly sports Patriots)
Old Dominion (all sports CUSA)

These schools could all be in their basketball conference of choice but play each other during the regular season in football.

Add in games against BYU for scheduling. Memphis could head to the BE along with UConn. There is legit potential for a new generation of Eastern Independents that can play each other.

ScenarioThe B12 expands with UCF/UC. The ACC doesn't get votes to expand with any more NE schools so UConn opts for the Big East and brings Memphis with them. Temple and Navy then have no business in the AAC and they go independent. To get admitted back to the A10 both Temple and Old Dominion get invited in as the 15th and 16th school.

SMU, Tulsa, Houston and Tulane join the MWC, ECU and USF back to CUSA. The AAC ceases to exist but you have a grouping of eastern independents which play each other every year. Enough schools that can negotiate their own bowl games together for mutual benefit.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2015 06:23 PM by Kittonhead.)
02-21-2015 06:23 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....
02-21-2015 06:56 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 06:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....

Okay, but Notre Dame, Virginia, and NC State don't belong on that list.
02-21-2015 07:03 PM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Temple and Navy then have no business in the AAC

wtf does that mean?
02-22-2015 04:41 PM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 07:03 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 06:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:29 PM)goofus Wrote:  Uconn should push for a ND-style scheduling alliance with the ACC. Join the ACC in all sports but football, 5 football games a year against ACC, and part of ACC bowl game line-up, except for the Orange Bowl. Uconn has to get their own football tv contract and gets none of the ACC tv money for football.

Who knows, maybe UConn can sign a tv deal with NBC to be the home team on weeks when ND has a road game.

Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....

Okay, but Notre Dame, Virginia, and NC State don't belong on that list.

The #10 Irish are 24-4 and second-ranked Virginia (who may be the best team in the country) is 24-1 in what is probably the nation's best conference. While UConn has done very well in basketball over the last 15 years, their 14-11 record this season is hardly inspirational and brings into focus why it may be absurd to suggest that UConn could survive at the highest level as an independent in all sports.
02-22-2015 04:44 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
In terms of can it be done, I would think so. For football scheduling, all they have to do is look at who Notre Dame and BYU are playing late season, and you will find a conference that has an opening that week (granted said team may be on a bye). And with the schedule allotting two byes most years, plenty of teams could find openings. If they wanted it. Plus UConn might end up on the BYU list, where some conferences count them as a major opponent. And the idea of signing with NBC, so games could be on NBC as a precursor to ND games, or in place of, and on the NBC Sports network that could work. plus they and either ND or BYU could team with the Big 12 to play a game during championship week, so that the Big 12 can have 6 games on that week instead of five (7 total games, but one would be on the road so not a part of their TV contract). Although I think ND values that last game on the west coast too much to want to play the last week, but during years they in the playoff hunt, I think playing in the last week would help.

The downside, they would almost have to sign with NBC to make it work, which means all of their home games are on NBC, meaning less ESPN exposure in FB and basketball. I don't know that is a good option, but I think it could be done.
02-22-2015 05:02 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 04:44 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 07:03 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 06:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Why exactly would the ACC be interested in that?
Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....

Okay, but Notre Dame, Virginia, and NC State don't belong on that list.

The #10 Irish are 24-4 and second-ranked Virginia (who may be the best team in the country) is 24-1 in what is probably the nation's best conference. While UConn has done very well in basketball over the last 15 years, their 14-11 record this season is hardly inspirational and brings into focus why it may be absurd to suggest that UConn could survive at the highest level as an independent in all sports.

I was talking overall basketball program strength. When exactly was the last time Notre Dame (Elite 8 - 1979), Virginia (Elite 8 -1995), or NC State (Elite 8 - 1986) made a dent in the NCAA tournament? I stand by my original comment: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and Louisville make the ACC strong year in and out, not the other 3.

As far as your shot at UCONN....glass houses Wolfpack fan. 07-coffee3
02-22-2015 05:14 PM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-21-2015 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I have no idea what UConn has in mind, so I'll just comment generally. I think that indy could be an appealing option for some FBS team if you can get to a situation where there are at least 6-8 other G5 independents. You need a critical mass of independent teams in order to make scheduling late season games viable. If there are at least 6-8 indy FBS school, assuming these teams are smart enough to cooperate with one another in sort of a loosely grouped coalition, then football independence could be very viable. Such a coalition could group together to negotiate TV agreements, bowl ties, and a scheduling agreement to keep every member covered for late season games (when it is very difficult for indy teams to get games at all, much less home games). The upside is that a G5 team could in theory fashion a near P5 quality schedule---something that is impossible for a G5 conference member. Ideally, an indy team would thus be able to overcome the inherent SOS issue that virtually bars any G5 team from EVER making the playoff.

The other factor in going independent is the availability of a viable olympic sports option. You would need a decent place to put your Olympic sports. In UConn's case, there is a great option. Schools along the eastern seaboard in general seem to have pretty decent options to honest (A-10, CAA, etc). For a school like mine (Houston), finding a decent Olympic sports home might be a serious problem. The Southland Conference is about the only option---that's quite a step down. That would make indy a long shot for some schools despite there being an indy coalition to ease the difficulty.

Some are independent in football by choice. Notre Dame and BYU each have a national following large enough to pull it off. Others are indy because no conference seems to want them. The question is, does anybody else have what it takes to make being a football indy pay off financially?

But is it even possible for a school to have a strong enough national cachet in hoops to make independence possible in that sport? To even consider it, you would need to consider your current football conference affiliation worth very little to you, and your prospects for finding a better conference slim. Does any of that describe UConn? Does it describe anybody else?

The schools that come to mind first when I think of possible football independence are Boise State, Rice, UTEP and Southern Miss. Since the Olympics sports all have a pathway to a title built into their system, any of those schools could park their Olympic sports in any conference and they wouldn't lose anything in national standing (although Rice and USM would have to consider their baseball programs). So the question relates to their viability as football independents as I believe none have much chance of being elevated beyond their current level of conference.

I agree that a few more football independents would ease scheduling, but I don't believe the national following is a necessity. Yes, the guaranteed TV money would be less for these schools, but it's not like any of them are getting rich in their current conference deals. One good bowl game in which they don't have to share their take with a dozen conference mates would be a boon to any of these programs.

From a scheduling standpoint, each of those schools could improve their slate to a level in which they would be considered de facto P5 schools. While P5s generally begin conference play in late September to early October, open dates dot the schedule. It should be relatively simple for USM, for example, to arrange as many as six-seven P5 games to start the season and one SEC game in the week prior to rivalry week. Schedule a couple of the independents, an in-state SWAC game and I think they could come up with a pretty good schedule that can never be rivaled by CUSA.

Possible schedule
Last Aug. Thu./Sat. -- Florida State/Louisville/Memphis/ECU
Week two -- Alcorn State/Jackson State
Week three -- Auburn
Week four -- Alabama
Week five -- TCU/Baylor/Oklahoma State
Week six -- LSU/Texas A&M
Week seven -- Rice
Week eight -- UTEP
Week nine -- Boise State
Week ten -- Ole Miss
Week eleven -- Mississippi State
Week twelve -- Tulane

To me, a four/five game home schedule with those names listed beats the heck out of a CUSA schedule + Alabama, Mississippi State and a decent OOC. It would re-energize their fan base, which seems almost insurmountable given how quickly the program has fallen from respectability. And before people start criticizing the number of SEC games on this example, it is just an example. But they have had that many SEC teams on their schedule before and they have had relationships with every school I listed above, except Baylor IIRC.

You tell me. Would you rather your favorite G5 school remain in its current holding pattern in G5 purgatory or roll the dice with some bold moves? This example might not be the one, but running it place doesn't seem like a good idea to me if all of the other runners are already ahead of you.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2015 05:24 PM by Zombiewoof.)
02-22-2015 05:19 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
Zoombie you have a seriosu flaw in your suggestion: how on earth do you get all of those teams to play home and homes? at best you will get some 2 for 1's, but likely most will only play home games. UConn may get away with it more as their name is bit bigger, and they were in a power conference but most SEC schools will only play one team OOC home and home at a time, and usually it is another power conference team.
02-22-2015 05:25 PM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 05:25 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Zoombie you have a seriosu flaw in your suggestion: how on earth do you get all of those teams to play home and homes? at best you will get some 2 for 1's, but likely most will only play home games. UConn may get away with it more as their name is bit bigger, and they were in a power conference but most SEC schools will only play one team OOC home and home at a time, and usually it is another power conference team.

You are correct. You can't get home-and-home with all of them. Alabama and Auburn used to play USM every year but never in Hattiesburg. But Texas A&M, Nebraska, Illinois, Ole Miss, Mississippi State have come to Mississippi and IIRC, only Nebraska was a two for one. It is a problem in the suggestion, but as others have said, it could be lessened by having a few more follow suit as independents.
02-22-2015 05:34 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
I mentioned above I think it could be done and how it could work. With Notre Dame and BYU playing P5 teams, and two bye weeks, it leaves some room in the schedule for teams in P5 conferences to play them if they wanted. For example, when USC played ND to close out the season, California played BYU.
The issue I was referring to was getting BIG names to come to campus. That one will be hard to come by.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2015 05:43 PM by adcorbett.)
02-22-2015 05:40 PM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 05:14 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-22-2015 04:44 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 07:03 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 06:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 03:43 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Balance. Plus adding another big basketball program would help with the eventual ACC network.

Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....

Okay, but Notre Dame, Virginia, and NC State don't belong on that list.

The #10 Irish are 24-4 and second-ranked Virginia (who may be the best team in the country) is 24-1 in what is probably the nation's best conference. While UConn has done very well in basketball over the last 15 years, their 14-11 record this season is hardly inspirational and brings into focus why it may be absurd to suggest that UConn could survive at the highest level as an independent in all sports.

I was talking overall basketball program strength. When exactly was the last time Notre Dame (Elite 8 - 1979), Virginia (Elite 8 -1995), or NC State (Elite 8 - 1986) made a dent in the NCAA tournament? I stand by my original comment: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and Louisville make the ACC strong year in and out, not the other 3.

As far as your shot at UCONN....glass houses Wolfpack fan. 07-coffee3

I don't know who you are referring to as a Wolfpack fan, but I assume you are talking to me. I am not a fan of any of the schools you spoke of; I was simply responding to your having taken an unnecessary "shot" at Notre Dame, Virginia and NC State. I don't know why people feel it makes their own program look better if they are critical of someone else's. I understand to a degree when it's a rivalry, but not a bunch of schools with no relation to your own. Connecticut has had a good run. Pointing out that they are currently sixth in the AAC -- behind three CUSA schools -- only speaks to their current condition. It wasn't a shot.
02-22-2015 05:41 PM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 05:40 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I mentioned above I think it could be done and how it could work. With Notre Dame and BYU playing P5 teams, and two bye weeks, it leaves some room in the schedule for teams in P5 conferences to play them if they wanted. The issue I was referring to was getting BIG names to come to campus. That one will be hard to come by.

When schedules were 10 games, it was easier obviously. Now all of the P5 schools seem to think it's their birthright to have 7-8 home games a season. In the USM example above, I assumed several things. First would be renewing it's annual game(s) with Tulane and/or Memphis. I think those three schools should always play. I also assumed that the series' with Mississippi State and Alabama would continue and the ones with Ole Miss and Auburn could be renewed. Having had relationships with Louisville, Florida State, TCU, and other P5s could produce home and home deals, but even single games would prove valuable to USM. It may not be ideal, but if they could get back to 7-9 games of P5 level, then USM fans could probably live with a home slate largely made up of Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, South Alabama and SWAC teams.

Again, I can't see why a school like Boise, Rice or USM wouldn't at least try it. It's not like they have far to fall.
02-22-2015 05:51 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 05:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Again, I can't see why a school like Boise, Rice or USM wouldn't at least try it. It's not like they have far to fall.

Boise made a New Year's Six Bowl THIS season because they were a G5 champion. Since the BCS and playoffs have exited, exactly one team from a non-power conference made a major bowl because they were chosen: every other one got in due to contractual language of their ranking AND being a conference champion (Boise St in 2009 was the exception). Giving up guaranteed access to the New Years Day Bowls is what will keep any team from voluntarily going Indy.
02-22-2015 05:58 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Could a D-I school go independent in this day and age?
(02-22-2015 05:41 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  
(02-22-2015 05:14 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-22-2015 04:44 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 07:03 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-21-2015 06:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  Uh...the ACC doesn't need enhancement in Basketball...I think Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia and NC State have thst covered....

Okay, but Notre Dame, Virginia, and NC State don't belong on that list.

The #10 Irish are 24-4 and second-ranked Virginia (who may be the best team in the country) is 24-1 in what is probably the nation's best conference. While UConn has done very well in basketball over the last 15 years, their 14-11 record this season is hardly inspirational and brings into focus why it may be absurd to suggest that UConn could survive at the highest level as an independent in all sports.

I was talking overall basketball program strength. When exactly was the last time Notre Dame (Elite 8 - 1979), Virginia (Elite 8 -1995), or NC State (Elite 8 - 1986) made a dent in the NCAA tournament? I stand by my original comment: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, and Louisville make the ACC strong year in and out, not the other 3.

As far as your shot at UCONN....glass houses Wolfpack fan. 07-coffee3

I don't know who you are referring to as a Wolfpack fan, but I assume you are talking to me. I am not a fan of any of the schools you spoke of; I was simply responding to your having taken an unnecessary "shot" at Notre Dame, Virginia and NC State. I don't know why people feel it makes their own program look better if they are critical of someone else's. I understand to a degree when it's a rivalry, but not a bunch of schools with no relation to your own. Connecticut has had a good run. Pointing out that they are currently sixth in the AAC -- behind three CUSA schools -- only speaks to their current condition. It wasn't a shot.

Well, I hope you voiced your concerns about the condition of Kentucky basketball after the 2012-2013 season. And if UCONN is trailing anyone in conference, it's highly likely that they will be "CUSA" schools, considering 9 out of 10 were formerly part of that conference. 03-shhhh

Carry on. 07-coffee3
02-22-2015 06:18 PM
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