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B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #61
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Big Ten throws some cold water on this:


Quote:Stewart Mandel
@slmandel

Per the Big Ten, "no official proposal" on freshman ineligibility. It's gauging interest from members on "beginning a national discussion."

That's not cold water. It may not be hot water but it certainly isn't cold water. It is simply a politically correct response to the topic coming out to the public.
02-19-2015 07:09 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #62
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 07:09 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Big Ten throws some cold water on this:


Quote:Stewart Mandel
@slmandel

Per the Big Ten, "no official proposal" on freshman ineligibility. It's gauging interest from members on "beginning a national discussion."

That's not cold water. It may not be hot water but it certainly isn't cold water. It is simply a politically correct response to the topic coming out to the public.

Lukewarm water?
02-19-2015 07:24 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #63
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 07:24 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:09 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Big Ten throws some cold water on this:


Quote:Stewart Mandel
@slmandel

Per the Big Ten, "no official proposal" on freshman ineligibility. It's gauging interest from members on "beginning a national discussion."

That's not cold water. It may not be hot water but it certainly isn't cold water. It is simply a politically correct response to the topic coming out to the public.

Lukewarm water?

I read that they are starting the process...07-coffee3
02-19-2015 07:25 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #64
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 07:25 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:24 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:09 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Big Ten throws some cold water on this:


Quote:Stewart Mandel
@slmandel

Per the Big Ten, "no official proposal" on freshman ineligibility. It's gauging interest from members on "beginning a national discussion."

That's not cold water. It may not be hot water but it certainly isn't cold water. It is simply a politically correct response to the topic coming out to the public.

Lukewarm water?

I read that they are starting the process...07-coffee3

Ahh, you understand the language.
02-19-2015 07:46 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #65
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 07:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:25 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:24 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 07:09 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Big Ten throws some cold water on this:

That's not cold water. It may not be hot water but it certainly isn't cold water. It is simply a politically correct response to the topic coming out to the public.

Lukewarm water?

I read that they are starting the process...07-coffee3

Ahh, you understand the language.

Very similar to when the B1G put out they were looking to expand and Full Cost of Attendence it in the water now...doesn't matter if the water is Hot, Cold or Lukewarm...
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015 08:02 PM by Maize.)
02-19-2015 07:54 PM
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Post: #66
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 04:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This is a misguided pushback against the NBA one-and-done rule.

They'd be better off trying to persuade the NBA to modify its draft eligibility rule. Something like the MLB draft rule (draft-eligible after high school, and then not again until after a player's 3rd year at a "four year" college or after 2 years at a juco) would be best, but in any event the conferences need to find a way of pushing back other than just pushing all of the one-and-dones to Europe or the D-league.

Labor laws give you some flexibility on this, but really these restrictions get on shakier and shakier legal ground.
02-19-2015 08:14 PM
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Post: #67
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 04:26 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 04:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 04:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This is a misguided pushback against the NBA one-and-done rule.

They'd be better off trying to persuade the NBA to modify its draft eligibility rule. Something like the MLB draft rule (draft-eligible after high school, and then not again until after a player's 3rd year at a "four year" college or after 2 years at a juco) would be best, but in any event the conferences need to find a way of pushing back other than just pushing all of the one-and-dones to Europe or the D-league.

I like the MLB system. I'm not sure it's an option for basketball. I believe baseball can do it without violating any labor laws because they have a long-standing antitrust exemption from Congress. I don't believe the NBA does. I'd like to know what someone conversant with labor law has to say about this.

baseball can do it because they have a multi-level flourishing minor league system to throw these guys into. The NBA doesn't have that. They have the D-League, which is a start, but that's not even a full minor league team for each NBA team, let alone 5 like MLB has for each of their teams.

There are a bunch of minor league teams as well as the Europe option.
02-19-2015 08:15 PM
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Post: #68
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 05:10 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This totally to shut down of Kentucky and John Calipari! 07-coffee3

Calipari and UK will do just fine with everyone under the same rules just as they always have. They might do better if they aren't playing 4 or 5 freshman all the time.
02-19-2015 08:18 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #69
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 08:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 05:10 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This totally to shut down of Kentucky and John Calipari! 07-coffee3

Calipari and UK will do just fine with everyone under the same rules just as they always have. They might do better if they aren't playing 4 or 5 freshman all the time.

I don't think Calipari long for Kentucky...feel if he wins it this year he will take another shot at the Association. Long term this rule would not bother Kentucky or any of the Top Tier Basketball Powers like UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke, UCLA, Louisville, Michigan State etc..etc...
02-19-2015 08:38 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #70
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 06:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The interesting thing is that the NBAPA, for whatever reason, is actually acting *against* its own economic self-interest by opposing the 20-year old limit. The people that the NBAPA is protecting in this instance (future 19-year old one-and-done players) aren't members of the union at all right now - they're all just potential future union members. Meanwhile, there are plenty of current NBAPA at the bottom of NBA rosters and would be better served by not having more 19-year old rookies (all whom have very cheap contracts compared to veterans) coming in and competing with them for roster spots. The NBAPA might be one of the few unions in America where it's going out on a limb for people that aren't even members yet while putting their higher-paid veterans with much more seniority at a disadvantage.

Granted, I think enough current NBA players have a better of an understanding of this now and they'll agree to the change in exchange for some other currently unknown issue that will ultimately be more important to the NBAPA. It's a great leverage issue of the NBAPA in the next labor negotiation - the NBA owners want the higher age limit and the current NBAPA doesn't lose anything by giving it up, so it's the perfect issue to horse trade on.

There's only one group that really wants to push back against the 20-year old age limit: sports agents.

Other than one off year (when it switches from 19 to 20), it's going to be the same number of blue chip players coming out from college to the pros. Agents won't see any difference, other than the DOB on their papers.
02-19-2015 08:42 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #71
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
ESPN now reporting on this:

The Big Ten is seeking feedback from its members about the possibility of making freshmen athletes ineligible for competition as they adjust to college life.

In a statement to ESPN.com, the league says it is gauging interest from its members about a "national discussion regarding a year of readiness for student-athletes."

The league has provided background to its members about such a step but has made no official proposal at this point.

The Big Ten has provided background to its members about the possibility of making freshmen athletes ineligible for competition as they adjust to college life but has made no official proposal at this point.

The Diamondback, the student newspaper at Maryland, reported Thursday that the Big Ten is circulating a document titled, "A Year of Readiness," which explores making freshmen in football and men's basketball ineligible for competition.

Maryland's athletic council met Thursday afternoon to discuss the document, The Diamondback reported.

"If they do well because they spend more time, get more academic advising ... their freshman year, they're going to graduate," Maryland president Wallace Loh told the newspaper. "And I think it's worth spending an extra year of financial support to ensure that they graduate."

Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott told CBSSports.com last week that he has discussed freshman ineligibility with several commissioners and that there will be "much more serious conversations about it in the coming months and year."

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby told CBSSports.com that there's "growing interest" in debating the possibility.


Freshmen were ineligible to compete in all NCAA sports until 1972. Some athletes enrolling for the 2016 academic year will take academic redshirt years as initial eligibility standards increase.

Big Ten football coaches and athletic directors didn't discuss freshman ineligibility at their recent business meeting, but they expect to do so in the coming months. Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz told ESPN.com that he favors freshman ineligibility.

"That would be one of the healthiest things we could do for college sports right now," Ferentz said. "Recruiting's kind of a runaway train, and what a lot of people don't consider is there's a lot of serious pressure that's put on some players' shoulders that I'm not sure is healthy for them big picture-wise. ... It would allow the guy to transition a little bit with a lot less fanfare and get their feet on the ground and get a good foundation established."

Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith doesn't think the freshman eligibility policy should change based solely on some men's basketball players spending just one year in college before turning pro.

"One-and-done is a small percentage -- it's not even 1 percent of our student-athletes when you take all the schools," Smith told ESPN.com. "That's way off base to me. Do we have challenges with young people who aren't really prepared the way they should be to attack college education? No doubt about it.

"I have not been a proponent of freshman ineligibility, but I keep my mind open that maybe it's something we have to consider"


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...y-freshmen
02-19-2015 09:09 PM
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bluesox Online
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Post: #72
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
If they raise the scholarship limits, i don't like it. Now i do think the NBA needs to change their rule.
02-19-2015 09:33 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #73
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
So what they are essentially trying to do here is force the one and done kids overseas for at least a year, and making the first year of the "three years removed from high school" football player useless.

Why am I not surprised Swofford thinks this is a great idea.
02-19-2015 09:57 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #74
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 09:57 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  So what they are essentially trying to do here is force the one and done kids overseas for at least a year, and making the first year of the "three years removed from high school" football player useless.

Why am I not surprised Swofford thinks this is a great idea.

Delany, Scott and Swofford looks like they are for it...Bowlsby is apparently willing to listen...and really in Football the vast majority Redshirt anyway...heck, the last tHree Heisman Winners were Redshirts...in Basketball it really only going to effect around 10 to 15 players out of 300 to 400..07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015 10:10 PM by Maize.)
02-19-2015 10:08 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #75
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 10:08 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 09:57 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  So what they are essentially trying to do here is force the one and done kids overseas for at least a year, and making the first year of the "three years removed from high school" football player useless.

Why am I not surprised Swofford thinks this is a great idea.

Delany, Scott and Swofford looks like they are for it...Bowlsby is apparently willing to listen...and really in Football the vast majority Redshirt anyway...heck, the last tHree Heisman Winners were Redshirts...in Basketball it really only going to effect around 10 to 15 players out of 300 to 400..07-coffee3

That depends on the situation. In each of the past four season a significant portion of Clemson's recruiting classes have played as true freshmen. Last years #1 and #3 rushers were true freshmen, the #2 passer was a true freshman, our best WR was a true freshman.

This year our #2 QB is likely to be a true freshman unless a former walk-on who couldn't beat out a one armed QB last year makes incredible strides.

And it still doesn't change the fact that in football the NFL has the three years removed from high school rule so that means if a player is good enough to go to the NFL early you as a school are paying for a year that you get absolutely nothing out of.

If academics are a concern then deal with the programs that are struggling. Clemson is a perennial Top 10 APR school and the vast majority of the seniors under Dabo Swinney have earned a degree. Don't penalize us because some schools don't do the right thing.
02-19-2015 10:32 PM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #76
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 02:26 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 02:21 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2015/2/...basketball

for both football and men's hoops. Would be an interesting challenge to the NBA's one-and-done rule.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketba...1424372900

I am 100% behind this rule.

If I could be more than 100% behind it, I would.

if you are from chicago or Louisiana you can be behind it 100% * how many times you vote

and I am 100% for this rule eve if it is for P5 only

most of the one and done players turn out to be knuckleheads IMO anyway

everyone remembers the ones that manage to play for a year and somehow stay out of jail and then get drafted, but few remember or even really know about all the ones that went to college ball with the intention of being a "one and done" (because dey mad skillz fo ril!) and then 20 games into the first season either could not keep out of trouble or could not remain academically eligible for the next season and either had to take a seat on the bench the next season, went to jail or failed out or "transferred" to somewhere else

those are the "players" I have no interest in ever seeing set foot on a college campus

also this rule will probably end up a disaster for G5 teams if they decide to NOT implement it while the P5 DOES imperilment it

take a look at two very different coaches and two programs that are dissimilar, but that COULD be similar

UT and Indiana

Bobby Knight while at Indiana (and even at Texas Tech) actively worked to AVOID AT ALL COST one and done players and would not even talk to most of them

at Indiana he ran a complex system that relied one coaching and TEAMWORK and he was able to obtain and sustain success by getting young raw players that would stay FOR THE LONG TERM and working them into a well oiled system as soon as they were ready

Rick Barnes at UT has had some very good recruits over the years like Kevin Durant, LaMarcus Aldridge and DJ Augistine and Daniel Gibson, but he was never able to keep then for more than 2 seasons or 1 season for Durant

two of those were 05-06 and one was 07 and one was 07-08

if he had been able to keep all of them for at least three (much less 4 or 5) years he would have had something especially in 07 with all 4 of them on the team

and Texas is not able to do like Kentucky or even Kansas or others and recruit 3-4 of those players in a single class and hopefully hang on to at least a couple of them for longer than a year or two.....so they never get over the hump

and that is at TEXAS

now imagine that for a G5 program and the sheer number of G5 programs and kids wanting to stay close to home for their single college season ect

there will be VERY FEW if any G5 teams that will be able to draw enough of those players for the short term REPEATEDLY to have an impact for the long term and few of those programs will be able to weather the storm of failouts and plain knuckleheads that comes with "one and done" players

I do not have the stats and I am not going to try and compile them, but I would guess (and I may well be wrong) that of one could look at programs and players that were true "one and done" (much less those with the one and done attitude and questionable actual skills) the reality is the vast majority of "one and done" players would be bust and or grade issues or even crime issues and G5 programs are not going to be able to work against that tide of players like that over the long term

then you add in the case of a "one and done" that turns out to be good, but not a true "one and done", but that is "done" in the classroom or that is "done" as far as second chances and 3rd chances and 5th chances for "personal issues" at their current school, but is not "going to the big time" because they still have WORK (as in actual work not crime) to do and so they either make the mistake of "going small time" in Europe or they go to community college or to a lower division to get their grades and or "issues" in order......those players are NOT going back to a G5 school when the get their grades and or personal life squared away.....they are going to go to KU or UK or Duke or UNC or elsewhere that is "big time" for their last season or two

so in effect the G5 school will have had all the bad side of that player and none of the benefit of that player when they mature and get it together for chance number (infinity)

and as for the pros the reason the veterans are against players right out of HS is because they know as much as anyone that NBA owners and their check books are their own worst enemy

they are just like a college team dealing with "one and dones"......they will take a chance on a draft choice.......many will be a bust.....and many more will show "just enough" to get a big contract while they are still young, but the VAST majority instead of being Dirk Nortwitzie or kobe bryant will turn out to be an idiot that gets lazy after their big second contract and they will be a long term expensive bust......and 100% of them money they get will be at the expense of a player that has either worked hard the whole time and remained in the league or that woke up late in life and realized if they did more work they could get a decent to big 3rd contract or even get a 4th or 5th contract for decent money instead of being a salary cap hit to make way for a "potential" (most likely bust) very young and still raw and immature second contract player

the LONG TERM players and the SEASONED veterans run the players association and they have seen enough young guys come in as rookies and bust out without a second contract (and the damage that did to their team) and enough young guys that did just enough to get a big second contract (before they busted out and the MAJOR damage that did to the teams and the veterans that got CUT to make room for that fool) to know that they do not want to let NBA owners and GMs (and their check book) anywhere near young guys with "potential" because that money and potential comes at the expense of a veteran and a guy that has worked hard to remain in the league
02-20-2015 01:32 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #77
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
Nice to see this finally coming full circle. It was foolish to ever change the rule in the first place. Freshman weren't eligible for decades and college athletics got along just fine. If this shuts down the AAU coaches and shoe companies pimping of college basketball players, even better.

I am sure we will get the "players have rights" speech from those making the most money off the backs of these young men but so be it. Kudos to The Big Ten, PAC, ACC (and Big 12) for agreeing to discuss this. It's about time.
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02-20-2015 06:32 AM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #78
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-20-2015 06:32 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Nice to see this finally coming full circle. It was foolish to ever change the rule in the first place. Freshman weren't eligible for decades and college athletics got along just fine. If this shuts down the AAU coaches and shoe companies pimping of college basketball players, even better.

I am sure we will get the "players have rights" speech from those making the most money off the backs of these young men but so be it. Kudos to The Big Ten, PAC, ACC (and Big 12) for agreeing to discuss this. It's about time.
CJ

I don't think outside of the Basketball school in Central Kentucky the SEC would not fight this too hard if the others agree to this as well...for the most part it not going to bother Football and really overall would improve thr quality on the field while getting the players time to get their feet wet.
02-20-2015 06:48 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #79
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
It'll never happen, unless every conference adopts the policy. Would kill recruiting otherwise.
02-20-2015 09:07 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #80
RE: B1G, ACC, PAC look to make freshmen ineligible
(02-19-2015 04:13 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 03:49 PM)ECBrad Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 02:46 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(02-19-2015 02:29 PM)ECBrad Wrote:  This is just a Dasville way to increasing scholarship limits

I have Blackfoot blood on my mom's side. I don't know what you are implying by this?

Sorry I meant to say back door but I'm phone posting and it messed me up

04-cheers

FIFY 04-cheers
02-20-2015 10:47 AM
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