(02-13-2015 06:07 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  Steve, you had a BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT post at the top of the page!!!!! Kudos.
There is an chronic institutional apathy. Whining about it on this forum won't change it. In some ways it will just make it worse.

Thoroughly enjoyed the post!!

I thoroughly....disagree with the post. Here's why.

At the mid-major level, you have to promote the hell out of your team, your product or...you could end up with 300 spectators for a postseason game and become a national story. Mid major sports is very similar to Triple A baseball vs Major League baseball. The Tigers, i.e. Michigan, MSU are going attract fans no matter what. The Toledo Mud Hens have to do way more in the way of promotions and marketing to get fans to come to their games. Winning is not as important because we all know that EMU is not going to win it ALL in DI sports, the goal is to win a MAC title, which far fewer people care about or even know about. A little run in the NCAA is probably the ultimate goal for basketball.

Dick Vitale, head coach of the Detroit Titans understood this concept. He made it a show, an event to come out to Calihan Hall. If he had approached his job the way Rob Murphy does, U-D would have never attracted star players or had sold out crowds in a dicey part of Detroit.

The people who come to this site are the diehards--a very small group of people. People who I graduated with no longer follow the football or basketball teams. There is absolutely no interest.

So to reiterate, it is ABSOLUTELY the responsibility of the coach at the mid-major level to market their teams. I can see Chris Creighton gets it--we'll see if he is a good enough coach--but Murphy is completely disinterested in putting in the extra work. Whatever, I know how this movie ends.

The coaches responsibility is to coach a winning team. Some coaches might agree with you that if you drum up the support in the games, it will probably be easier to recruit and therefore helps improve the chances to win. Others will spend that effort on extra scouting for the same end. Others will spend that effort on extra coaching to directly improve the winning. And others will balance the approach.

The coaches responsibility is to win. That is what Murphy will be and should be judged on. Not the methods he chose to use.

Murphy is not winning- at least in the MAC this year. I totally respect your right to speculate why. I do the same myself. I guess we disagree on the why he is losing.

(02-13-2015 11:15 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  The coaches responsibility is to coach a winning team. Some coaches might agree with you that if you drum up the support in the games, it will probably be easier to recruit and therefore helps improve the chances to win. Others will spend that effort on extra scouting for the same end. Others will spend that effort on extra coaching to directly improve the winning. And others will balance the approach.

The coaches responsibility is to win. That is what Murphy will be and should be judged on. Not the methods he chose to use.

Murphy is not winning- at least in the MAC this year. I totally respect your right to speculate why. I do the same myself. I guess we disagree on the why he is losing.

Dude, you have a 9,000 seat arena and you are bringing in less than 1,000. Common sense tells you that you should have a team interesting/exciting enough to bring in a couple grand. This is not rocket science.

Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

I agree, Ken. No one comes to watch the coach (except to hate on Bobby Knight or the late Jerry Tarkanian).

Who is the coach at Ohio, Kent, etc.?

(02-14-2015 08:20 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

I agree, Ken. No one comes to watch the coach (except to hate on Bobby Knight or the late Jerry Tarkanian).

Who is the coach at Ohio, Kent, etc.?

Oh god, I give up...some people just don't get it! I guess Murphy must be losing, because no one cares or shows up at his games. The bar is really low for you folks.

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

You never watched a game at Calihan Hall during the Dick Vitale or Smokey Gaines era, OBVIOUSLY. You also think that recruiting "very good players" happens in a vacuum. I'm speechless.

(02-14-2015 11:03 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

You never watched a game at Calihan Hall during the Dick Vitale or Smokey Gaines era, OBVIOUSLY. You also think that recruiting "very good players" happens in a vacuum. I'm speechless.

We wish!

(02-14-2015 11:05 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:03 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

You never watched a game at Calihan Hall during the Dick Vitale or Smokey Gaines era, OBVIOUSLY. You also think that recruiting "very good players" happens in a vacuum. I'm speechless.

We wish!

We wish what? I wish just once, you would make a cogent comment about ANYTHING. To quote Seinfeld, "Whoooo are these people??!!"

(02-14-2015 11:19 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:05 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:03 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

You never watched a game at Calihan Hall during the Dick Vitale or Smokey Gaines era, OBVIOUSLY. You also think that recruiting "very good players" happens in a vacuum. I'm speechless.

We wish!

We wish what? I wish just once, you would make a cogent comment about ANYTHING. To quote Seinfeld, "Whoooo are these people??!!"

Bob, you're living in the past.

Did you see the game last night from Calihan? The crowd looked like an EMU crowd...

I've come to believe for most mid-majors the 70s or 90s will never be again...

When I was at EMU the weeknight choices were:

1). Study,

2). Go to an EMU basketball game,

3). Listen to an EMU basketball game on radio,

4). Watch some boring television, i.e., ABC, CBS, NBC, or a Canadian station - all of which might have been a bit grainy; maybe color or even B&W, for older folks (I believe color became 'mainstream' in the 70s).

I opted for #2. I didn't want to do #1 or #4 and why do #3 if you can choose #2?

Today that list would be much, much longer and better...

I'm going to watch the doubleheader today via webcast...

(02-14-2015 12:03 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:19 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:05 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 11:03 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 07:48 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob,
I'm a native Detroiter and I don't remember any fantastic goings on at U-D when Vitale was coach. How he was able to recruit very good basketball players I don't know, but that is why people came to their basketball games.....they won most of the time.
That is the formula for bringing out fans. Winning. The converse is true too. Lose and no one cares, and will not show at your games.

You never watched a game at Calihan Hall during the Dick Vitale or Smokey Gaines era, OBVIOUSLY. You also think that recruiting "very good players" happens in a vacuum. I'm speechless.

We wish!

We wish what? I wish just once, you would make a cogent comment about ANYTHING. To quote Seinfeld, "Whoooo are these people??!!"

Bob, you're living in the past.

Did you see the game last night from Calihan? The crowd looked like an EMU crowd...

I've come to believe for most mid-majors the 70s or 90s will never be again...

When I was at EMU the weeknight choices were:

1). Study,

2). Go to an EMU basketball game,

3). Listen to an EMU basketball game on radio,

4). Watch some boring television, i.e., ABC, CBS, NBC, or a Canadian station - all of which might have been a bit grainy; maybe color or even B&W, for older folks (I believe color became 'mainstream' in the 70s).

I opted for #2. I didn't want to do #1 or #4 and why do #3 if you can choose #2?

Today that list would be much, much longer and better...

I'm going to watch the doubleheader today via webcast...

Steve, I opted for #2 also and it was awesome. However, you unwittingly proved my point. U-D with a low-key, unspectacular coach (Ray McCallum) is going to have a hard time enticing people out of their homes and come to a dangerous part of Detroit on a cold, dark winter evening--and I don't care how much the Titans used to win. My dad drove us kids from affluent Northville to Detroit--during the Murder capital of the US days to see U-D play. Vitale was probably the first guy to turn off the lights during player introductions-just a spotlight on the player and have the colorful untucked basketball uniforms, ala Marquette in the Al McGuire days, it was a real event and Calihan was packed. Vitale's personality attracted local kids like Terry Tyler, John Long, Terry Duerod, Wilbert McCormick, etc to stay home and play for the local team, when they easily could have opted for bigger schools. Jud Heathcoate and Johnny Orr did not have to pull out all the stops at MSU and U-M respectively...I know that there are very few dynamic, outstanding coaches out there and those that are probably won't come to U-D or EMU, so you are probably right that the mid-majors of the 70's-90's will probably never come back, unless a young Valvano or Vitale is out there that we do not yet know about.