Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

(01-30-2015 08:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  At least a dozen times on reports about this issue, I have watched someone on TV confuse PSI to the "weight" of the ball. Come on people...please.

w/o reading any further....Brees called it "ounces" on more than one occasion as Conan subtly used "psi".... (can't find the vid, sorry)

(01-30-2015 08:57 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  Speaking of the poorly educated...

I usually complain a lot about the IQ of fast food workers. Then, yesterday, on my way to my basketball game something great happened.

I had 12 chicken nuggets in my 10 piece box.

almost a bakers dozen....but did you have to ask for napkins and condiments....now that's a story

(01-31-2015 10:28 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:22 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  The NFL didn't even check the balls before the game. The log book to verify they were checked is blank.

If they didn't inspect them, how did they know they were intentionally deflated?

They don't.

the funniest thing to me is, what was the range of deflation relative to the lowest value allowed by rule? if it's -0.x, then so what? if it's -1.x, it's still ends in, so what?

I have yet to see physical data....

all I know is they were deflated....like the dolts before they entered the field o' play...

I wish I could find the conan/brees video.....it's a kick in the arse....

(01-30-2015 12:45 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  I can understand the confusion though, p does stand for pounds.

there is no doubt, the balls weigh 'x' based on psi....

it's interesting that Brees chose to view in oz vs psi.....that tells you how finely tuned he is with his trade....

if you do the math, his version of 13 ounces vs 11 ounces with the first two balls that he was handed is pretty much spot-on....(the weight of the ball itself is a constant)

I think the point was it being about 'deflation' and not weight....

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:08 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 09:34 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  You're wrong. So very very wrong. There's a rule dealing with the proper inflation of footballs. A rule, I might add, that was knowingly and intentionally broken by the Patriots. So (if we're using your logic) it's a non-issue, why is there a rule in place dealing with inflating footballs?

It is a non issue with the players. They all know this has been going on and have been pushing the envelope of the rule for years.. Suddenly...someone decided to make an issue of it because they were getting their asses handed to them on the field. It had zero impact on the ass whipping the Colts received or any other game outcome.

There is a rule regarding the "general" inflation of the ball. The rule itself lends room for inflation and deflation of the ball already by having a "range" of inflation.. If the NFL wanted this to be a solid rule that the ball was to be inflated to a "specific" pressure...that would be pretty easy to accomplish. The rule allows for leeway already.

There has BTW already come forth legitimate scientific proof that the PSI of any ball can decrease or increase due to atmospheric conditions. No one can say at this point that anyone intentionally did anything to the ball except inflate them in the range of the rule. No one.

...and there's legitimate scientific proof that "your" scientific proof is pure bunk. Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

(01-31-2015 03:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:08 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It is a non issue with the players. They all know this has been going on and have been pushing the envelope of the rule for years.. Suddenly...someone decided to make an issue of it because they were getting their asses handed to them on the field. It had zero impact on the ass whipping the Colts received or any other game outcome.

There is a rule regarding the "general" inflation of the ball. The rule itself lends room for inflation and deflation of the ball already by having a "range" of inflation.. If the NFL wanted this to be a solid rule that the ball was to be inflated to a "specific" pressure...that would be pretty easy to accomplish. The rule allows for leeway already.

There has BTW already come forth legitimate scientific proof that the PSI of any ball can decrease or increase due to atmospheric conditions. No one can say at this point that anyone intentionally did anything to the ball except inflate them in the range of the rule. No one.

...and there's legitimate scientific proof that "your" scientific proof is pure bunk. Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

Sorry Fo, the experts also tell us the planet it over heating, or cooling, or whatever. A pro running back was interviewed and not only did he say he could tell when the ball was under inflated, but he also said it was harder to fumble an under inflated ball. When it comes to fumbles running backs, NE didn't even make the list.
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M

(01-31-2015 01:25 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

We have no record of initial inflation pressure. It was not logged. That is the problem. There is no starting point in which to work from. Colts could have been at the upper end of the limit...Pats may have been at the lower end of the limit. Hell...It is perfectly reasonable to believe that those that approved the balls do not really check this schit that close anyway. It is most likely not a very scientifically controlled procedure. If is was? We would have records of the initial PSI of every ball.

I have no idea exactly what happened..but..
It has been confirmed by experts in the field that a ball can deflate by as much as 2 PSI due to conditions. That lends reasonable doubt of foul play IMO.

(01-31-2015 03:19 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:08 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  ...and there's legitimate scientific proof that "your" scientific proof is pure bunk. Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

Sorry Fo, the experts also tell us the planet it over heating, or cooling, or whatever. A pro running back was interviewed and not only did he say he could tell when the ball was under inflated, but he also said it was harder to fumble an under inflated ball. When it comes to fumbles running backs, NE didn't even make the list.
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M

No one has disputed that. In fact Brady lobbied for a softer ball. That still does not prove they cheated in this instance. We are BTW not talking about hypothesis here like global warming. We are talking about verified Physics. This is a solid backbone of science that is indisputable. Air expands when warmed...contracts when cooled. It is not up for debate. It is settled science.

(01-31-2015 03:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:25 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

We have no record of initial inflation pressure. It was not logged. That is the problem. There is no starting point in which to work from. Colts could have been at the upper end of the limit...Pats may have been at the lower end of the limit. Hell...It is perfectly reasonable to believe that those that approved the balls do not really check this schit that close anyway. It is most likely not a very scientifically controlled procedure. If is was? We would have records of the initial PSI of every ball.

I have no idea exactly what happened..but..
It has been confirmed by experts in the field that a ball can deflate by as much as 2 PSI due to conditions. That lends reasonable doubt of foul play IMO.

Like I said, under-inflated has quite a range....

it's pointless to argue w/o data....

edit: found it....

(01-31-2015 04:23 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:25 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

We have no record of initial inflation pressure. It was not logged. That is the problem. There is no starting point in which to work from. Colts could have been at the upper end of the limit...Pats may have been at the lower end of the limit. Hell...It is perfectly reasonable to believe that those that approved the balls do not really check this schit that close anyway. It is most likely not a very scientifically controlled procedure. If is was? We would have records of the initial PSI of every ball.

I have no idea exactly what happened..but..
It has been confirmed by experts in the field that a ball can deflate by as much as 2 PSI due to conditions. That lends reasonable doubt of foul play IMO.

Like I said, under-inflated has quite a range....

it's pointless to argue w/o data....

The scientists also included other variables outside of the atmospheric conditions. Rain during this time of year is considerably colder than the surrounding atmosphere. Evaporation from a wet ball lowers the balls temperature. Both of these things could lower the temp of the air in the ball and its PSI.

(01-31-2015 04:23 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:25 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

We have no record of initial inflation pressure. It was not logged. That is the problem. There is no starting point in which to work from. Colts could have been at the upper end of the limit...Pats may have been at the lower end of the limit. Hell...It is perfectly reasonable to believe that those that approved the balls do not really check this schit that close anyway. It is most likely not a very scientifically controlled procedure. If is was? We would have records of the initial PSI of every ball.

I have no idea exactly what happened..but..
It has been confirmed by experts in the field that a ball can deflate by as much as 2 PSI due to conditions. That lends reasonable doubt of foul play IMO.

Like I said, under-inflated has quite a range....

it's pointless to argue w/o data....

edit: found it....

Pretty funny. He said ounces...twice... and no one said a thing to correct him. I don't think Conan knew either.

(01-31-2015 04:36 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 04:23 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:20 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:25 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Reputations being what they are, I'd have to say the Pats are guilty.

Each team gets 12 balls and 11 of the Pats 12 balls were under inflated. None of the Colts 12 balls were under inflated.

Any statisticians on this board? What are the odds of the above happening?

We have no record of initial inflation pressure. It was not logged. That is the problem. There is no starting point in which to work from. Colts could have been at the upper end of the limit...Pats may have been at the lower end of the limit. Hell...It is perfectly reasonable to believe that those that approved the balls do not really check this schit that close anyway. It is most likely not a very scientifically controlled procedure. If is was? We would have records of the initial PSI of every ball.

I have no idea exactly what happened..but..
It has been confirmed by experts in the field that a ball can deflate by as much as 2 PSI due to conditions. That lends reasonable doubt of foul play IMO.

Like I said, under-inflated has quite a range....

it's pointless to argue w/o data....

The scientists also included other variables outside of the atmospheric conditions. Rain during this time of year is considerably colder than the surrounding atmosphere. Evaporation from a wet ball lowers the balls temperature. Both of these things could lower the temp of the air in the ball and its PSI.

yep....let's assume all the balls were inflated and measured with a calibrated device at the lowest end of the acceptable range.....it's really not hard to understand after 3+ hrs of game play coupled with the conditions that the balls would end up with a lower psi at that point....

if 12 psi is the low end number, then 11.999999 is under-inflated.....

whoopy-fkn-do

until I see any empirical data.....I'm just gonna laugh at the premise....like most others have....

the issue itself is just another dipshite thing for the media to talk about for a week....

(01-31-2015 03:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:08 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It is a non issue with the players. They all know this has been going on and have been pushing the envelope of the rule for years.. Suddenly...someone decided to make an issue of it because they were getting their asses handed to them on the field. It had zero impact on the ass whipping the Colts received or any other game outcome.

There is a rule regarding the "general" inflation of the ball. The rule itself lends room for inflation and deflation of the ball already by having a "range" of inflation.. If the NFL wanted this to be a solid rule that the ball was to be inflated to a "specific" pressure...that would be pretty easy to accomplish. The rule allows for leeway already.

There has BTW already come forth legitimate scientific proof that the PSI of any ball can decrease or increase due to atmospheric conditions. No one can say at this point that anyone intentionally did anything to the ball except inflate them in the range of the rule. No one.

...and there's legitimate scientific proof that "your" scientific proof is pure bunk. Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

...and yet these same professors and experts cannot, or IMO will not, explain why only the Patriots balls were deflated. Perhaps because atmospheric conditions were not the reason for deflated balls. I even quoted an expert who dispute Mr. MIT, and other like minded people, yet you keep trotting out the same debunked science.

(01-31-2015 03:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:19 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

Sorry Fo, the experts also tell us the planet it over heating, or cooling, or whatever. A pro running back was interviewed and not only did he say he could tell when the ball was under inflated, but he also said it was harder to fumble an under inflated ball. When it comes to fumbles running backs, NE didn't even make the list.
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?mode=M

No one has disputed that. In fact Brady lobbied for a softer ball. That still does not prove they cheated in this instance. We are BTW not talking about hypothesis here like global warming. We are talking about verified Physics. This is a solid backbone of science that is indisputable. Air expands when warmed...contracts when cooled. It is not up for debate. It is settled science.

You mean just like global warming? How many times have the GW crowd said GW was "settled science"? There are experts out there who dispute the experts you keep referring to.

I might've missed it, but were Indy's balls tested with NE's?

Sorry I am late, Belicheat let the air out of my tires and Hernandez tried to shoot me, but I've heard that it was actually global warming that caused the deflation of the footballs...

(01-31-2015 05:04 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 03:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:38 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 12:08 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  ...and there's legitimate scientific proof that "your" scientific proof is pure bunk. Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

So footballs are exempt from the laws of Physics? Ok. Air expands in volume when heated...contracts when cooled...always.

...and yet the Colts footballs were just fine.

"For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower pressure, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air"

Do you still want to hang your hat on "scientific proof"? Atmospheric conditions did not, I repeat DID NOT, cause the Patriots footballs to deflate.

Argue with the experts. MIT Physics Prof. Max Tegmark also says a 2PSI drop in his experiments and calculations using natural gas law shows no evidence of wrong doing. His findings are similar to that of Timothy Gay... Experimental Physics Prof at the University of Nebraska. This subject was included in his book "The Physics of Football". Recent experiments by Thomas Healy...graduate student at Carnegie Mellon also confirm the deflation theory.

...and yet these same professors and experts cannot, or IMO will not, explain why only the Patriots balls were deflated. Perhaps because atmospheric conditions were not the reason for deflated balls. I even quoted an expert who dispute Mr. MIT, and other like minded people, yet you keep trotting out the same debunked science.

Evidently you just want to argue for the sake of arguing....so...Ill comment no further.

(01-31-2015 05:22 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I might've missed it, but were Indy's balls tested with NE's?

Both were tested at halftime. If they were tested before the game?...those numbers were not logged. No one knows what the starting PSI of the balls actually were.