What Obama said in the SOTU:

Quote:Russian aggression, supporting Ukraine’s democracy, and reassuring our NATO allies. Last year, as we were doing the hard work of imposing sanctions along with our allies, some suggested that Mr. Putin’s aggression was a masterful display of strategy and strength. Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated....

What Russia did Saturday:

Quote:...30 people killed Saturday by rocket strikes in Mariupol, a Ukrainian-held city that stands between the Russian border and Crimea.... The attack on Mariupol signaled the end of the cease-fire agreement between Ukraine and pro-Russia rebels in September and highlighted the strategic importance of the Azov Sea port city in Kiev’s resistance to Moscow’s aggression.

Yep, Putin is shaking in his boots over Obama.

(01-29-2015 11:28 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  What Obama said in the SOTU:

Quote:Russian aggression, supporting Ukraine’s democracy, and reassuring our NATO allies. Last year, as we were doing the hard work of imposing sanctions along with our allies, some suggested that Mr. Putin’s aggression was a masterful display of strategy and strength. Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated....

What Russia did Saturday:

Quote:...30 people killed Saturday by rocket strikes in Mariupol, a Ukrainian-held city that stands between the Russian border and Crimea.... The attack on Mariupol signaled the end of the cease-fire agreement between Ukraine and pro-Russia rebels in September and highlighted the strategic importance of the Azov Sea port city in Kiev’s resistance to Moscow’s aggression.

Russia attacking Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia isn't isolated.

Russia is indeed very isolated. Even their friends in Bulgaria and Moldova are distancing themselves from Russia now in favor of stronger relations with Europe.

Putin is in little danger though because the Russian people are accustomed to tough times. They'll put pride and nationalism before rationalism.

The smart people leave and the lowest common denominators of Russian society stay behind. This has been happening for decades and it will only continue until Russia sees a fundamental change.

(01-29-2015 11:52 AM)Niner National Wrote:  Russia attacking Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia isn't isolated.

True. But Russia being "isolated" doesn't mean that Obama has any influence over Russia's behavior, or that Obama's "policy" towards Russia is of any use to anyone.

Quote:The smart people leave and the lowest common denominators of Russian society stay behind. This has been happening for decades and it will only continue until Russia sees a fundamental change.

Think about what Russia has been through over the past 100 years. If "fundamental change" hasn't happened yet, one can only wonder, what in God's name would have to occur, in order for such change to take place? The answer, I suspect, is the cumulative weight of sheer demographic loss. The Soviet Union claimed a population of about 280m in the mid-1950s. Russia today -- shorn of the Baltic States, the "Stans", and so on -- claims a population of about 144m. And it's still going down. I don't know when the tipping point is reached, but at some point, Russia simply will not be able to project force outside of its borders.

Where's that damn button the current administration keeps wanting to push?

Deny Russia access to SWIFT and Putin will pay attention.

Quote:SWIFT is a cooperative organization based in Belgium that plays a key role in the world financial system. It runs a secure messaging system for the financial industry. While it doesn’t itself clear financial transactions, it sends the messages between banks that make financial transactions possible. It’s one of the core frameworks of international finance.

And why does the Russian government care?

Because SWIFT plays such a crucial role in international financial transactions. Russia’s own financial system relies on SWIFT and would likely be crippled if it were no longer able to use the system. Russian banks would have great difficulty in engaging in transactions with each other. This would have consequences in turn for the Russian economy. As we saw during the financial crisis, the real economy can grind to a near-halt when the financial sector is frozen up. Some Russians suggest that their country could improvise a communication system in the absence of SWIFT. However, this would be at best a stopgap solution, mitigating heavy economic damage rather than preventing it. Furthermore, even if Russia managed to do this, Russian financial institutions would still be frozen out of financial relations with the West.

(01-29-2015 12:15 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Where's that damn button the current administration keeps wanting to push?

This made me

Best post in the thread.

(01-29-2015 11:52 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 11:28 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  What Obama said in the SOTU:

Quote:Russian aggression, supporting Ukraine’s democracy, and reassuring our NATO allies. Last year, as we were doing the hard work of imposing sanctions along with our allies, some suggested that Mr. Putin’s aggression was a masterful display of strategy and strength. Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated....

What Russia did Saturday:

Quote:...30 people killed Saturday by rocket strikes in Mariupol, a Ukrainian-held city that stands between the Russian border and Crimea.... The attack on Mariupol signaled the end of the cease-fire agreement between Ukraine and pro-Russia rebels in September and highlighted the strategic importance of the Azov Sea port city in Kiev’s resistance to Moscow’s aggression.

Russia attacking Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia isn't isolated.

Russia is indeed very isolated. Even their friends in Bulgaria and Moldova are distancing themselves from Russia now in favor of stronger relations with Europe.

Putin is in little danger though because the Russian people are accustomed to tough times. They'll put pride and nationalism before rationalism.

The smart people leave and the lowest common denominators of Russian society stay behind. This has been happening for decades and it will only continue until Russia sees a fundamental change.

Hit the nail on the head there. Putin knows his audience (Russians), and is in fact... not scared of Obama's rhetoric simply because that's all it is... rhetoric.

How I long for the days when Putin was an American icon..



And best friends with our President



Sure looks like Putin has his hand in Bush's pants...they were close.



http://www.businessinsider.com/george-w-...in-2014-12

Bob, the current President of the United States is Barack Obama.

Hence, the concerns are about Putin's interactions with President Barack Obama in the year 2015.

edit: double post.

(01-29-2015 12:06 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 11:52 AM)Niner National Wrote:  Russia attacking Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia isn't isolated.

True. But Russia being "isolated" doesn't mean that Obama has any influence over Russia's behavior, or that Obama's "policy" towards Russia is of any use to anyone.

Quote:The smart people leave and the lowest common denominators of Russian society stay behind. This has been happening for decades and it will only continue until Russia sees a fundamental change.

Think about what Russia has been through over the past 100 years. If "fundamental change" hasn't happened yet, one can only wonder, what in God's name would have to occur, in order for such change to take place? The answer, I suspect, is the cumulative weight of sheer demographic loss. The Soviet Union claimed a population of about 280m in the mid-1950s. Russia today -- shorn of the Baltic States, the "Stans", and so on -- claims a population of about 144m. And it's still going down. I don't know when the tipping point is reached, but at some point, Russia simply will not be able to project force outside of its borders.

Yeah, I started typing that it never would and giving the history of Russia, but deleted it because I didn't feel like typing a novel.

It'll never change. Russian's are used to pain and hardship. All they've ever really known are dictators and corruption. They seem to be okay with it.

As far as Russia being able to project force outside its borders, I agree. I question how much longer they'll be able to defend their own borders. They are resource rich and have areas with extremely low population. Russia has land that was formerly Chinese. The Chinese may decide they want that back some day and they are much better positioned to take it than Russia is to defend it.

(01-29-2015 01:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Bob, the current President of the United States is Barack Obama.

Hence, the concerns are about Putin's interactions with President Barack Obama in the year 2015.

If a Republican president did the same exact thing, you wouldn't be concerned about it.

(01-29-2015 01:56 PM)Niner National Wrote:  As far as Russia being able to project force outside its borders, I agree. I question how much longer they'll be able to defend their own borders. They are resource rich and have areas with extremely low population. Russia has land that was formerly Chinese. The Chinese may decide they want that back some day and they are much better positioned to take it than Russia is to defend it.

True, but a more likely scenario to me -- and I admit I'm just guessing here -- is that Russia/China form a kind of "Legion of Doom" alliance whereby China gets sweetheart deals to exploit those aforementioned "resources" and Russia gets some semblance of financial/banking stability, plus a key diplomatic ally.

(01-29-2015 02:08 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 01:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Bob, the current President of the United States is Barack Obama.

Hence, the concerns are about Putin's interactions with President Barack Obama in the year 2015.

If a Republican president did the same exact thing, you wouldn't be concerned about it.

I am simply not able to go back in time. It is 2015 and the the concern is about tomorrow, not yesterday.

(01-29-2015 02:47 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 02:08 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 01:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Bob, the current President of the United States is Barack Obama.

Hence, the concerns are about Putin's interactions with President Barack Obama in the year 2015.

If a Republican president did the same exact thing, you wouldn't be concerned about it.

I am simply not able to go back in time. It is 2015 and the the concern is about tomorrow, not yesterday.

It was hypothetical, but not going back in time.

I can't wait for the Dems to run against GWB in 2016.



Oh yes.......... He will be on the ballot!!!!

(01-29-2015 02:15 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 01:56 PM)Niner National Wrote:  As far as Russia being able to project force outside its borders, I agree. I question how much longer they'll be able to defend their own borders. They are resource rich and have areas with extremely low population. Russia has land that was formerly Chinese. The Chinese may decide they want that back some day and they are much better positioned to take it than Russia is to defend it.

True, but a more likely scenario to me -- and I admit I'm just guessing here -- is that Russia/China form a kind of "Legion of Doom" alliance whereby China gets sweetheart deals to exploit those aforementioned "resources" and Russia gets some semblance of financial/banking stability, plus a key diplomatic ally.

I've felt that was the best way for both nations to advance. I think it fell through when they realized no one with any serious capital was going to move their money over to some new Sino-Russian joint currency that would challenge the dollar for reserve status.

Obama could serve 10 terms and he still wouldn't understand Russia.

(01-29-2015 08:02 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Obama could serve 10 terms and he still wouldn't understand Russia.

To be fair, I don't think anyone really understands Russia.