(01-27-2015 10:50 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:27 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:26 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:03 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 09:40 AM)fsquid Wrote:  looking for stuff to complain about, pretty simple. Celebrating after beating UAB during our runner-up season should also be ripped apart.

Probably so.

The act like you've been there should always apply to a program of Memphis' stature. Unless the program wishes to be small time.

sounds like a boring place to me.

Celebrating wins over Tulane sounds like a nightmare to me.

Onward and upward, amigo.

It was celebrating basically a last second shot. There's very few teams if any that wouldn't celebrate on the floor or back in the locker room no matter who the opponent was. Some people around here need to get over themselves

And round and round we go.

It's symptomatic of a bigger issue.

Anyone who wants to make this simply into folks dogging out a coach and players for celebrating a victory are being intellectually dishonest.

FYI Calkins may be "chiding the haters" but he is also questioning why Shaq,Godfrey and Hawkins are playing over King. He also wanted to bet Martin lunch that King would not be on the roster next season. Martin declined

(01-27-2015 11:01 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:53 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:37 AM)holyterror Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 09:42 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 09:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  running over the same ole ground

yep.

this place has become the same arguments rehashed over and over.

You gotta be crazy
Gotta have a real need.

It's a case study in cognitive dissonance.

Sour grapes?

You know that scene in anchorman where ron burgandy says "when in rome" and christina applegate's character says "that expression really doesn't apply to what I was saying."

That's exactly what popped into my head after your post.

(01-27-2015 10:28 AM)Mimi Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 10:20 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  Left out this quote- 2. Having said that, yes, needing a late bucket to avoid a sweep by Tulane is more evidence about how far the program has fallen.

And that is simple bullsh!t.

It is only evidence that THIS season, Memphis is down. This is not last season and this is not next season. This is THIS season and an improved Tulane and a down Memphis team is all that is happening here.

This bullsh!t spin that somehow next decade expectations are simply to be able to win close at Tulane is complete crap. Taking that moment to try and make that point is master baiting.

I understand part of your point but have you seen the team, any team in Josh's tenure, play to it's potential, adjust offensvie or defensive strategy, shuffle the lineup like you get bonus money for each substitution, keep players in the game at wrong times and leave players out completely, consistently win games against teams that are at least as talented as your own, do anything at all to convince you that he can lead this program to be a championship contending program consistently or, better yet, at all?

Have we ever had a coach here who has ever divided the fan base more, had this many kids of equal talent when compared to the other kids on the team, leave, sounded more lost after a loss, sounded more strange after a win, been as horrible with direct questions about anything?

There is zero evidence, none, nill, nada, zilch that's gives anyone the indication that Josh will lead this program to success on a national scale. There is, however, loads of evidence that Josh's teams can beat mid-level teams with inferior talent by the truck load only to have a horrible success rate against teams that actually have national success.

By your definiton, Memphis is down this year. Agreed. But the question is can it ever be "up" under Josh. If you think overinflated records against an incredibly weak schedule and early blow out exits in the NCAA tournament are "ups" then, well, Josh certainly is your guy. And certainly not mine.

(01-27-2015 11:10 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:50 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:27 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:26 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:03 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Probably so.

The act like you've been there should always apply to a program of Memphis' stature. Unless the program wishes to be small time.

sounds like a boring place to me.

Celebrating wins over Tulane sounds like a nightmare to me.

Onward and upward, amigo.

It was celebrating basically a last second shot. There's very few teams if any that wouldn't celebrate on the floor or back in the locker room no matter who the opponent was. Some people around here need to get over themselves

And round and round we go.

It's symptomatic of a bigger issue.

Anyone who wants to make this simply into folks dogging out a coach and players for celebrating a victory are being intellectually dishonest.

OK....OK....OK.........Dr Phil. You guys win. Next time the kids celebrate I'll look at the systemic reasons of why they are celebrating and what this means for the program overall. Intellectual dishonesty my foot aside!

(01-27-2015 11:18 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:28 AM)Mimi Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 10:20 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  Left out this quote- 2. Having said that, yes, needing a late bucket to avoid a sweep by Tulane is more evidence about how far the program has fallen.

And that is simple bullsh!t.

It is only evidence that THIS season, Memphis is down. This is not last season and this is not next season. This is THIS season and an improved Tulane and a down Memphis team is all that is happening here.

This bullsh!t spin that somehow next decade expectations are simply to be able to win close at Tulane is complete crap. Taking that moment to try and make that point is master baiting.

I understand part of your point but have you seen the team, any team in Josh's tenure, play to it's potential, adjust offensvie or defensive strategy, shuffle the lineup like you get bonus money for each substitution, keep players in the game at wrong times and leave players out completely, consistently win games against teams that are at least as talented as your own, do anything at all to convince you that he can lead this program to be a championship contending program consistently or, better yet, at all?

Have we ever had a coach here who has ever divided the fan base more, had this many kids of equal talent when compared to the other kids on the team, leave, sounded more lost after a loss, sounded more strange after a win, been as horrible with direct questions about anything?

There is zero evidence, none, nill, nada, zilch that's gives anyone the indication that Josh will lead this program to success on a national scale. There is, however, loads of evidence that Josh's teams can beat mid-level teams with inferior talent by the truck load only to have a horrible success rate against teams that actually have national success.

By your definiton, Memphis is down this year. Agreed. But the question is can it ever be "up" under Josh. If you think overinflated records against an incredibly weak schedule and early blow out exits in the NCAA tournament are "ups" then, well, Josh certainly is your guy. And certainly not mine.

Great post. Some people on here seem to believe that all this program is good for is a round of 32 finish. That's all fine and good but let's drop the coaches pay to 300K a year and stop all the TSF donations while we are at it. No need for any ambassadors running the program. Just hire a guy that graduates players and don't cheat. Get Underwood from Stephen F Austin or the guy at Murray St. Hell we can move back to Elma Roane and not have to worry about attendance count with the Grizz.

Was it therefore wrong for the football team to celebrate that win over Tulane in New Orleans a couple of years ago? Just trying to get my mind right.

(01-27-2015 11:38 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Was it therefore wrong for the football team to celebrate that win over Tulane in New Orleans a couple of years ago? Just trying to get my mind right.

Wasn't that their first win? Look I'm on the side of celebrating but that's apples to oranges don't you think?

(01-27-2015 11:38 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:18 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 10:28 AM)Mimi Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 10:20 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  Left out this quote- 2. Having said that, yes, needing a late bucket to avoid a sweep by Tulane is more evidence about how far the program has fallen.

And that is simple bullsh!t.

It is only evidence that THIS season, Memphis is down. This is not last season and this is not next season. This is THIS season and an improved Tulane and a down Memphis team is all that is happening here.

This bullsh!t spin that somehow next decade expectations are simply to be able to win close at Tulane is complete crap. Taking that moment to try and make that point is master baiting.

I understand part of your point but have you seen the team, any team in Josh's tenure, play to it's potential, adjust offensvie or defensive strategy, shuffle the lineup like you get bonus money for each substitution, keep players in the game at wrong times and leave players out completely, consistently win games against teams that are at least as talented as your own, do anything at all to convince you that he can lead this program to be a championship contending program consistently or, better yet, at all?

Have we ever had a coach here who has ever divided the fan base more, had this many kids of equal talent when compared to the other kids on the team, leave, sounded more lost after a loss, sounded more strange after a win, been as horrible with direct questions about anything?

There is zero evidence, none, nill, nada, zilch that's gives anyone the indication that Josh will lead this program to success on a national scale. There is, however, loads of evidence that Josh's teams can beat mid-level teams with inferior talent by the truck load only to have a horrible success rate against teams that actually have national success.

By your definiton, Memphis is down this year. Agreed. But the question is can it ever be "up" under Josh. If you think overinflated records against an incredibly weak schedule and early blow out exits in the NCAA tournament are "ups" then, well, Josh certainly is your guy. And certainly not mine.

Great post. Some people on here seem to believe that all this program is good for is a round of 32 finish. That's all fine and good but let's drop the coaches pay to 300K a year and stop all the TSF donations while we are at it. No need for any ambassadors running the program. Just hire a guy that graduates players and don't cheat. Get Underwood from Stephen F Austin or the guy at Murray St. Hell we can move back to Elma Roane and not have to worry about attendance count with the Grizz.

Spot on.

You want a guy who wins just enough, doesn't cheat, and is a good community voice?

Pay him peanuts and play the games at Elma Roane.

Schedule all the donkeys you want.

Have parades for victories over CUSA/ACC fodder.

Put every available dime into football.

(01-27-2015 11:41 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:38 AM)holyterror Wrote:  Was it therefore wrong for the football team to celebrate that win over Tulane in New Orleans a couple of years ago? Just trying to get my mind right.

Wasn't that their first win? Look I'm on the side of celebrating but that's apples to oranges don't you think?

Some folks don't want to understand.

Fine, celebrate a win over Tulane. Go to the NIT. Watch players transfer.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

(01-27-2015 11:49 AM)holyterror Wrote:  My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

Agreed but under Fuente there is tangible evidence that great strides can be made in football with Justin at the helm. He's proven it and it illustrates how vital coaching and leadership are to gaining those strides to success.

Under Josh there are no strides. There's not even a slow crawl. There is an intoxicated stagger. More than that, there is tangible evidence that there is a slow running in place jog.

Who in the heck wants that?

(01-27-2015 10:28 AM)Mimi Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 10:20 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  Left out this quote- 2. Having said that, yes, needing a late bucket to avoid a sweep by Tulane is more evidence about how far the program has fallen.

And that is simple bullsh!t.

It is only evidence that THIS season, Memphis is down. This is not last season and this is not next season. This is THIS season and an improved Tulane and a down Memphis team is all that is happening here.

This bullsh!t spin that somehow next decade expectations are simply to be able to win close at Tulane is complete crap. Taking that moment to try and make that point is master baiting.

Give it a rest.

(01-27-2015 12:17 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:49 AM)holyterror Wrote:  My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

Agreed but under Fuente there is tangible evidence that great strides can be made in football with Justin at the helm. He's proven it and it illustrates how vital coaching and leadership are to gaining those strides to success.

Under Josh there are no strides. There's not even a slow crawl. There is an intoxicated stagger. More than that, there is tangible evidence that there is a slow running in place jog.

Who in the heck wants that?

This. JP had the most experienced team he is likely to have for the forseeable future last year and what was the end result? It's difficult to hold on to hope when there are no signs of progress.

Simply skimmed...but posting that there has been no evidence, and arguing that very loudly, is not the same thing as there being no evidence.

Distaste for our coach notwithstanding.

Try and enjoy the next game. Memphis is playing. Five years from now my guess is these histrionics will look silly. I get that some disbelieve that.

(01-27-2015 01:25 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 12:17 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:49 AM)holyterror Wrote:  My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

Agreed but under Fuente there is tangible evidence that great strides can be made in football with Justin at the helm. He's proven it and it illustrates how vital coaching and leadership are to gaining those strides to success.

Under Josh there are no strides. There's not even a slow crawl. There is an intoxicated stagger. More than that, there is tangible evidence that there is a slow running in place jog.

Who in the heck wants that?

This. JP had the most experienced team he is likely to have for the forseeable future last year and what was the end result? It's difficult to hold on to hope when there are no signs of progress.

That's my issue

The point being is that those upset about a team celebrating basically a last second shot is plain foolish. It's silly to going into the semantics and pyschobabbling about what it means for the overall program and the downturn for the season when those guys and coach weren't even thinking about that stuff at the moment. They were just simply celebrating! Let it go and move on to something more constructive like the many curls in the coaches hair

(01-27-2015 01:35 PM)Mimi Wrote:  Simply skimmed...but posting that there has been no evidence, and arguing that very loudly, is not the same thing as there being no evidence.

What's your point?

(01-27-2015 01:25 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 12:17 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:49 AM)holyterror Wrote:  My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

Agreed but under Fuente there is tangible evidence that great strides can be made in football with Justin at the helm. He's proven it and it illustrates how vital coaching and leadership are to gaining those strides to success.

Under Josh there are no strides. There's not even a slow crawl. There is an intoxicated stagger. More than that, there is tangible evidence that there is a slow running in place jog.

Who in the heck wants that?

This. JP had the most experienced team he is likely to have for the forseeable future last year and what was the end result? It's difficult to hold on to hope when there are no signs of progress.

This is EXACTLY why I'm ready for a change. After last year the jig was up for me....that was supposed to be the year that we saw a serious run. Older players, established team, ALL the guys were Pastner's guys, not Cal's.

Yes, JP may get there as a coach eventually, but we can't let the program languish for 5 more years while he gets more on-the-job training. Recruits have very short memories.

That said, I do think that all this hand-wringing & complaining about a video of a celebration over a last minute win, no matter the opponent, is stupid. Yeah, I get that it's sad that we needed a last-second shot to win at Tulane, but that shouldn't surprise anyone at this point in the season, so let 'em celebrate.

(01-27-2015 02:31 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 01:25 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 12:17 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 11:49 AM)holyterror Wrote:  My point being that great strides can be made in a short time. The football team was in a MUCH deeper hole than this basketball team is now. Things are rarely as bad as they seem.
Or as good as they seem.

Agreed but under Fuente there is tangible evidence that great strides can be made in football with Justin at the helm. He's proven it and it illustrates how vital coaching and leadership are to gaining those strides to success.

Under Josh there are no strides. There's not even a slow crawl. There is an intoxicated stagger. More than that, there is tangible evidence that there is a slow running in place jog.

Who in the heck wants that?

This. JP had the most experienced team he is likely to have for the forseeable future last year and what was the end result? It's difficult to hold on to hope when there are no signs of progress.

This is EXACTLY why I'm ready for a change. After last year the jig was up for me....that was supposed to be the year that we saw a serious run. Older players, established team, ALL the guys were Pastner's guys, not Cal's.

Yes, JP may get there as a coach eventually, but we can't let the program languish for 5 more years while he gets more on-the-job training. Recruits have very short memories.

That said, I do think that all this hand-wringing & complaining about a video of a celebration over a last minute win, no matter the opponent, is stupid. Yeah, I get that it's sad that we needed a last-second shot to win at Tulane, but that shouldn't surprise anyone at this point in the season, so let 'em celebrate.

We had such a loaded team last year. What a shame