(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

^ because UVA, VT, and Miami are absolutely opposed to a north/south set up, which makes it DOA.

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

I would add that Duke would like to play GT every year. And, to hear some of the Clemson fans on here, they would prefer to avoid NC schools altogether. That would make part of your list mutually exclusive. But your point is well taken. If there were a way to have a pure geographical split, we would already have one. Everybody feels they are making some concessions already.

(01-27-2015 08:45 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 02:28 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  I actually have heard SEC fans talk about this if LSU got its way and we did away with cross division rivalries all together.

For example, TN would play Alabama non-conference if the scheduling system somehow changed. That game isn't going away even if Tennessee was in the Sun Belt.

Georgia possibly would play Auburn.

As I see you are a Tennessee fan, I will try to make sure you realize I am not attempting to trash Tennessee with this post but that may be inevitable.

The problem with this Alabama vs Tennessee Rivalry is that it is simply a rivalry in the stands at this point. I will admit that Tennessee recruiting is on fire currently BUT it is one thing to recruit, it is another to put that into highly successful action on the field. Still though, why bother protecting these games in a yearly fashion?

The moment these conferences get to 16 teams and move to four divisions, if they do away with cross division rivalries, then these teams play each other every other year if they aren't in the same division. I know initially the traditionals will harp, moan and threaten to stop watching football but people eventually get used to change and accept it.

I don't see how the yearly game with Alabama truly benefits Tennessee anymore. Yes, when football was simply about putting butts in the seats, it is a great game. There is a lot more to college football now. Tennessee is in no dire spot that without that game they are going to have attendance issues. The Volunteer faithful are extremely impressive in their loyalty. Move on from these old traditions that really were only created in order to create something to sell the match ups on. If this one REALLY mattered, it would happen upon the actual day that the "rivalry match up" is labeled with.

It isn't that important anymore.

Based on this rationale you'll clamor for ND and Navy to cancel their series next.

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

Two things:

(1) When you try too hard to please absolutely everyone, you end up with a mess that pleases almost no one.

(2) The ACC could take care of nearly all of those demands mentioned above with donut/hole divisions.

(01-31-2015 05:05 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 08:45 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 02:28 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  I actually have heard SEC fans talk about this if LSU got its way and we did away with cross division rivalries all together.

For example, TN would play Alabama non-conference if the scheduling system somehow changed. That game isn't going away even if Tennessee was in the Sun Belt.

Georgia possibly would play Auburn.

As I see you are a Tennessee fan, I will try to make sure you realize I am not attempting to trash Tennessee with this post but that may be inevitable.

The problem with this Alabama vs Tennessee Rivalry is that it is simply a rivalry in the stands at this point. I will admit that Tennessee recruiting is on fire currently BUT it is one thing to recruit, it is another to put that into highly successful action on the field. Still though, why bother protecting these games in a yearly fashion?

The moment these conferences get to 16 teams and move to four divisions, if they do away with cross division rivalries, then these teams play each other every other year if they aren't in the same division. I know initially the traditionals will harp, moan and threaten to stop watching football but people eventually get used to change and accept it.

I don't see how the yearly game with Alabama truly benefits Tennessee anymore. Yes, when football was simply about putting butts in the seats, it is a great game. There is a lot more to college football now. Tennessee is in no dire spot that without that game they are going to have attendance issues. The Volunteer faithful are extremely impressive in their loyalty. Move on from these old traditions that really were only created in order to create something to sell the match ups on. If this one REALLY mattered, it would happen upon the actual day that the "rivalry match up" is labeled with.

It isn't that important anymore.

Based on this rationale you'll clamor for ND and Navy to cancel their series next.

So was it Tennessee or Alabama that kept the other Institution from going under during World War II? Seriously bro, Tennessee and Alabama hardly ever even play the game on the exact weekend that the "rivalry" game is named after. It's not that important obviously.

(01-31-2015 06:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

Two things:

(1) When you try too hard to please absolutely everyone, you end up with a mess that pleases almost no one.

(2) The ACC could take care of nearly all of those demands mentioned above with donut/hole divisions.

You are correct about the donut/hole - sometimes called the "wrap around", but the requires the other schools to acquiesces to the four North Carolina schools to be in one division - that too is a problem for some schools.

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Expansion has killed all that. One of the byproducts of Wake's physical move to Winston was to establish a relationship with VT decades before VT got back in with the group in 2003. As it is now, Wake has neither UNC or VT on a regular basis.

I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

Typical Lumber, talking out your ass.

We don't have a problem playing north of Virginia. What we have a problem with is getting stuck with both of the schools north of Pennsylvania in the recruiting dead zones and getting stuck with recruiting lightweight state Kentucky while the Coastal gets all the access to Virginia and Pennsylvania.

(01-31-2015 09:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 07:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I still don't get why this can't be fixed be making the divisions geographic, sans Miami. Have some permanent cross division rivals.

North------South
BC-----------Duke
Cuse-------GT
Pitt----------NCSU
UL-----------Clem
VT------------Wake
UVA---------UNC
Miami------FSU

ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

Typical Lumber, talking out your ass.

We don't have a problem playing north of Virginia. What we have a problem with is getting stuck with both of the schools north of Pennsylvania in the recruiting dead zones and getting stuck with recruiting lightweight state Kentucky while the Coastal gets all the access to Virginia and Pennsylvania.

How long have we been in the conference and how long have you been bitching?

(01-31-2015 09:10 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 09:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 01:14 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 10:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 07:58 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  ACC Divisions are soooo screwed up. Even most ACC fans can't tell you who is in what division, let alone the name of said division? East? North? Coastal? West? South? Atlantic? Conf? Look at me division? We don't know what its called either division? Who are you division? Does this game against a conf foe count as a conf game division?

I have to remember it by the Bowden/snob division. Bowdens were at FSU and Clemson. Snobs-GT, Duke, UNC, UVA. NCSU and Wake are with the Bowdens. VT and Miami are with the snobs (VA being the one state not split), BC and Maryland with the Bowdens. But with Pitt/SU and UL I can't remember which side they are on. I know one division is called Coastal, no idea if it is the Bowden good ol boy division or the snob division.

Every school has "deal-breakers"

1. VT demands to play a game in the State of NC every year
2. UVa does not want to be isolated in the north and demands to play VT and UNC every year.
3. UNC must play Duke, UVa, and NC State every year
4. NC State must play UNC and Clemson every year
5. All the schools want to play in the State of Florida every other year
6. FSU wants to avoid all of the smaller schools in a home game
7. Clemson does not want to play anyone north of Virginia
8. Duke must play UNC every year
9. Miami and FSU must play each other every year

Work within these demands and you find it's difficult to satisfy everyone with a pure north/south geographic split.

Typical Lumber, talking out your ass.

We don't have a problem playing north of Virginia. What we have a problem with is getting stuck with both of the schools north of Pennsylvania in the recruiting dead zones and getting stuck with recruiting lightweight state Kentucky while the Coastal gets all the access to Virginia and Pennsylvania.

How long have we been in the conference and how long have you been bitching?

Kap loves to ***** and moan. But the fact is Clemson has no desire at all to play north of Virginia just like I stated. I can't remember the last recruit Clemson had from PA, although I'm sure Kap knows.

I think they have two on the team from Brooklyn NY.

Again, we have no problem playing north of Virginia. We don't like the fact that we have to travel to either Boston or Syracuse every year with absolutely no gain.

We would love to recruit Pennsylvania more, but not playing in the state but once a decade hurts and with the loss of Maryland there isn't a "local" game like there used to be. Back then we could draw recruits in the area.

New York, Massachusetts, and Kentucky combined have 174 players combined listed in the 2015 recruit database on 24/7. Pennsylvania has 221 alone. Virginia 194. Yeah, it's equitable.