Three points:

1) At this juncture in Murphy's tenure, we should not be losing to Toledo by 24 points, no matter where the game is played.
2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

(02-04-2015 10:29 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Three points:

1) At this juncture in Murphy's tenure, we should not be losing to Toledo by 24 points, no matter where the game is played.
2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

1) Agree 100%.

2) Somewhat agree. Lee's shooting percentages are way up from last year. He has his clunkers, and still turns the ball over way too much, but he's better than he was last year. Ward has fallen off a cliff. It's depressing.

3) Sadly I'm starting to agree again. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible, because his worst season was on par with Ramsey's best season, but this is some serious regression. His offense has always sucked, but we had a great defense with a 7 foot shot-blocking anchor to keep us in games. We don't have that anymore and we haven't consistently adapted.

(02-04-2015 10:54 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 10:29 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Three points:

1) At this juncture in Murphy's tenure, we should not be losing to Toledo by 24 points, no matter where the game is played.
2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

1) Agree 100%.

2) Somewhat agree. Lee's shooting percentages are way up from last year. He has his clunkers, and still turns the ball over way too much, but he's better than he was last year. Ward has fallen off a cliff. It's depressing.

3) Sadly I'm starting to agree again. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible, because his worst season was on par with Ramsey's best season, but this is some serious regression. His offense has always sucked, but we had a great defense with a 7 foot shot-blocking anchor to keep us in games. We don't have that anymore and we haven't consistently adapted.

Good points, Sam. A couple of things:
-On point two, I meant that I see the entire team (again, excluding Talley) regressing since the beginning of the year. So, I think they've gotten worse in an intraseasonal sense. Even Lee looks like a different player now than he was during the first few months. And I really don't think the regression is due to the rigors of a MAC schedule (in comparison to our out of conferences games).

-On point three: The reason I've been so hard on Murphy is that I have never been in the habit of comparing him to our previous coaches. When I look around the MAC and see the kinds of players that are being recruited by other programs, and the offenses that are being run, I'm frequently envious. We know that Murphy is better than every other coach we've had since Braun, but that isn't the issue. Can he put us in a position to win a MAC tournament? Is he capable of building a roster that can develop continuity over time (i.e., not entirely transfer based)? Does he have the ability to move us to the upper tier, year in and year out, like we see with Western Michigan (just one example)? I think we have enough data to start drawing conclusions on some of these questions.

(02-04-2015 09:09 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 09:02 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 08:57 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 08:53 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 08:33 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  I have grown accustomed to this 1 on 1 offense, but tonight I have reached my limit. I could draw up some offensive sets for this team to run in the half court. It is not that difficult to run a basic motion offense.

I don't understand the stubbornness of Murphy on this. It is so plainly and painfully obvious how bad things get with the isolation offense he runs repeatedly. Players were already getting frustrated, why make them flat-footed just standing around.

Welcome to Murphyball.

Come on, BobW.

When Toledo shots like they did to start the game, the other team usually has trouble.

Most teams key their offense off missed shots and transition.

No missed shots = no transition offense.

Every season there are a few clunkers. Toledo is a superior team, we had to play great and we did not.

Toledo played like a top 25 team tonight.

They punched us (with perfect shooting) right out of the gate. Eventually the team just quit (and when the team quits on defense its bad news) and the game just spiraled.

They did to us what we did to Ohio. It happens (actually twice in a week, we punched Ohio; Toledo punched us).

Final scores in these type games are meaningless. I 'knew' we were going to lose at the 16 minute mark of the 1st half... No one in the MAC was going to stop Toledo last night.

This is a game to forget and move on to Saturday's rematch vs. Ohio.

(02-04-2015 10:29 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Three points:

... 2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

2). Gee, yesterday we were posting about players COMING ON and developing this season.

3). I'm not sure of the facts here, but I believe he was CONTACTED about the Orlando job and gave it a look. I don't believe he went out looking for the job. Big difference. To say 'he wanted to leave' maybe inaccurate; it suggests he went looking for a new job.

(02-05-2015 06:21 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 10:29 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Three points:

... 2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

2). Gee, yesterday we were posting about players COMING ON and developing this season.

3). I'm not sure of the facts here, but I believe he was CONTACTED about the Orlando job and gave it a look. I don't believe he went out looking for the job. Big difference. To say 'he wanted to leave' maybe inaccurate; it suggests he went looking for a new job.

Steve, he wanted to take the Orlando job, but couldn't afford the buyout. Isn't that correct?

(02-05-2015 10:08 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(02-05-2015 06:21 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 10:29 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Three points:

... 2) Besides Talley, every other player is regressing under Murphy's guidance.
3) I'm beginning to understand why Murphy wanted to leave after year one.

2). Gee, yesterday we were posting about players COMING ON and developing this season.

3). I'm not sure of the facts here, but I believe he was CONTACTED about the Orlando job and gave it a look. I don't believe he went out looking for the job. Big difference. To say 'he wanted to leave' maybe inaccurate; it suggests he went looking for a new job.

Steve, he wanted to take the Orlando job, but couldn't afford the buyout. Isn't that correct?

And Orlando wouldn't pay it. I remember that being the speculation. Of course, Murphy denied any interest, like all coaches do when they don't/can't take the job, but that was year one. I'm sure he could've got a similar job after last year's 22 win season, with a much smaller buyout.

I won't speculate on where Murphy's head is at in terms of wanting (or not wanting) to be here. Only those close to him could know that, and maybe even THEY don't. All I can judge is the product on the court, and it has been disappointing since the calendar year changed. If he did indeed want a better job, that ship has probably sailed. Unless, of course, he can turn things around.

I believe he was contacted by Orlando as he has connections within the club, I believe.

Quite frankly, I don't see much to be gained by re-plowing old ground, especially since we are NOT sure of the facts.

What I believe to be true, might be very different than what others here believe to be true, and I really don't know who is correct.

As far as I'm concerned, someone contacted him, offered him a raise and he considered it and turned it down. Yes, I'm aware of the buyout story.

Why sugarcoat it? Not only was he leaving, he was leaving right before the start of practice, essentially abandoning the team. Had Orlando ponied up for the buyout, he was gone. It's in the past, why pretend it didn't happen?

(02-05-2015 10:50 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I believe he was contacted by Orlando as he has connections within the club, I believe.

Quite frankly, I don't see much to be gained by re-plowing old ground, especially since we are NOT sure of the facts.

What I believe to be true, might be very different than what others here believe to be true, and I really don't know who is correct.

As far as I'm concerned, someone contacted him, offered him a raise and he considered it and turned it down. Yes, I'm aware of the buyout story.

My point is this -- Perhaps one of the reasons he was interested in leaving is that he felt like his stock was as high as it was going to get after year one? Because frankly, his tenure since has not been very good.

His team's performances are always less than the sum of the parts. At this point, it's fair to question why that is the case.

HB: thats what I thought you were going for but didnt want to speak for you.
Maybe Murphy is better suited as an associate head coach.

(02-05-2015 06:10 PM)holybovine Wrote:  My point is this -- Perhaps one of the reasons he was interested in leaving is that he felt like his stock was as high as it was going to get after year one? Because frankly, his tenure since has not been very good.

His team's performances are always less than the sum of the parts. At this point, it's fair to question why that is the case.

Now that it is explained, you have a very good point. Murphy stock is shot right now.

His system-based approach might work very well at a Syracuse with lots of talent. But at this level you need to be more reactive to your teams strengths and weaknesses. It does not work especially when part of your system is to ignore the offense instead relying on your players natural abilities to produce offense ---> and then pulling them everytime they do something dumb (bad shot/ turnover) due to the fact that they feel the need to put too much of the team's weight on their own shoulders.

Steve, I understand your sentiment about piling on old grievances- I interpreted the comment the same way initially. And I admire your defense of all things EMU.

One more point, I don't think Barnes was that bad.

22-10 year 1, 20-10 year 2 (and MAC champs). Yes this was Earl and Dial, but still solid seasons especially when the MAC was so strong.

Year 3 was ridiculously bad, and I don't understand how we was not able to recruit for this season. So this indicates he was not as good as Braun.

Year 4 was a real rebound for him, decent/mediocre year but tons of freshman/sophomore talent. CJ Grantham, Antonio Gates, Adam Hess, Ryan Prillman, and Calvin Warner. Had Barnes been retained this team would have dominated the MAC the next two seasons.

Not outstanding, but not horrible years either.

but Ray you ignore the fact that Hess, Warner and CJ all left after Boone became coach.

(02-05-2015 10:41 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  One more point, I don't think Barnes was that bad.

22-10 year 1, 20-10 year 2 (and MAC champs). Yes this was Earl and Dial, but still solid seasons especially when the MAC was so strong.

Year 3 was ridiculously bad, and I don't understand how we was not able to recruit for this season. So this indicates he was not as good as Braun.

Year 4 was a real rebound for him, decent/mediocre year but tons of freshman/sophomore talent. CJ Grantham, Antonio Gates, Adam Hess, Ryan Prillman, and Calvin Warner. Had Barnes been retained this team would have dominated the MAC the next two seasons.

Not outstanding, but not horrible years either.

Barnes wasn't bad just not ethical.

(02-04-2015 09:06 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-04-2015 09:54 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I could be wrong (aren't I always) but I like us in this one, it looks like the swagger of the non conference is back the past two games.

Easy tiger, we'll just forget this prediction.

No problem Kitten. Toledo blew us out last on the road and we blew them out at home. I expect a repeat this year.

We live and die on our outside shooting, we have no post or inside game to keep teams honest.

(02-06-2015 07:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-05-2015 10:41 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  One more point, I don't think Barnes was that bad.

22-10 year 1, 20-10 year 2 (and MAC champs). Yes this was Earl and Dial, but still solid seasons especially when the MAC was so strong.

Year 3 was ridiculously bad, and I don't understand how we was not able to recruit for this season. So this indicates he was not as good as Braun.

Year 4 was a real rebound for him, decent/mediocre year but tons of freshman/sophomore talent. CJ Grantham, Antonio Gates, Adam Hess, Ryan Prillman, and Calvin Warner. Had Barnes been retained this team would have dominated the MAC the next two seasons.

Not outstanding, but not horrible years either.

Barnes wasn't bad just not ethical.

He was involved in the Minnesota Clem Haskins scandal, and that reputation had something with his dismissal. Was he doing bad things at EMU too? I heard very general rumors there was some bad things going on EMU but no specifics.

Had Barnes been clean (not saying he was) and that starting line up stuck around. Would have been nice.