(01-12-2015 03:37 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:54 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  And before anyone chimes in with 'but Pastner did his thing in CUSA .2', so did Cal.

Some of you guys talking about supporting the coach evidently can’t see what’s actually going on during games. What about the players?

I can see clearly into year 6 the players deserve a better coach, plus the university & boosters are not getting their 2.6 million dollars worth.

You don't understand that you're not giving the players your support by continuing to trash their coach.

(01-12-2015 03:44 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:46 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:14 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:58 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:53 AM)alcalde Wrote:  I get tired of posts that think its all black and white, and that if you don't like Pastner than you don't support the team or your not a good fan.

I believe most of the Pastner haters on here support the players, and want to see us win. I am one of those. I really don't like Pastner as a coach, but I was happy to see us win today and have acknowledged the improvements from the start of the season.

The idea that one has to blindly support the coach is ridiculous. Im a huge Tiger fan that loves my team and want better for us.

I agree. I could never stand Calipari but I never bashed him while he was the coach because I felt like that would be bashing the the whole team.
Now that he is gone, it's open season. I just wish the Pastner bashers felt the same.

Cal had his fair share of bashers early on but after the disappointing seasons before Cal came, people were a bit more patient. Cal's teams at least had an identity...most of his teams were tough-nosed defensively.

As far as his last 4 years....even if you didn't like him, you couldn't bash him.

As for Pastner, his teams have lacked an identity. There are no offensive schemes that's applied consistently and defensively, his teams have been inconsistent as well. If you know what his team's identity is and his coaching philosophies are, let us know.

I think you, and most Josh bashers here, seem to overlook the fact that that 4 year run was fueled by the Laurenburg kids who already had developed a cohesive identity for two years prior to ever setting foot in Memphis and it wasn't until Cal got a ringer or two to add to the mix that they were ever a Final Four type teams.
Thank World Wide Wes for that team, not Cal.

Josh had the Memphis Magic and never won more than 1 game in each of the 4 NCAA tournaments.

In fact we were blown out in the last 2 tournament ending games.

Apples/oranges. The Magic was an AAU team.

I should that the Magic were a part-time team that never went undefeated one year, much less two years straight.

(01-12-2015 03:48 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:37 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:54 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  And before anyone chimes in with 'but Pastner did his thing in CUSA .2', so did Cal.

Some of you guys talking about supporting the coach evidently can’t see what’s actually going on during games. What about the players?

I can see clearly into year 6 the players deserve a better coach, plus the university & boosters are not getting their 2.6 million dollars worth.

You don't understand that you're not giving the players your support by continuing to trash their coach.

When a player is not getting it done on the court the coach benches him. So what happens to a coach who is not getting it done? I know you will disagree but other than the first year our HC has underachieved every season.

So what do you do…stick with him until he gets it done, knowing there is a chance he may never improve? This is my gripe.

Josh may be young but he’s been at this for a very long time. As a whole over the past 4 years his players did not improve much and from what I see he hasn’t improved much either.

(01-12-2015 04:04 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  I should that the Magic were a part-time team that never went undefeated one year, much less two years straight.

The Magic were comprised of high ranked players and also played highly ranked teams from all over the country.

If Cal would have coached them for 4 years I have no doubt the players would have gotten better, thus the results would have been better.

(01-12-2015 04:29 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:48 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:37 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:54 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  And before anyone chimes in with 'but Pastner did his thing in CUSA .2', so did Cal.

Some of you guys talking about supporting the coach evidently can’t see what’s actually going on during games. What about the players?

I can see clearly into year 6 the players deserve a better coach, plus the university & boosters are not getting their 2.6 million dollars worth.

You don't understand that you're not giving the players your support by continuing to trash their coach.

When a player is not getting it done on the court the coach benches him. So what happens to a coach who is not getting it done? I know you will disagree but other than the first year our HC has underachieved every season.

So what do you do…stick with him until he gets it done, knowing there is a chance he may never improve? This is my gripe.

Josh may be young but he’s been at this for a very long time. As a whole over the past 4 years his players did not improve much and from what I see he hasn’t improved much either.

Four years is a very long time? And from where I stand, I do see progress. Just because your knuckleheads screwed up their games doesn't mean none of them did.

I do think Josh still needs some polish, but I don't see the utter failure that you seem to.

(01-12-2015 04:36 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 04:04 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  I should that the Magic were a part-time team that never went undefeated one year, much less two years straight.

The Magic were comprised of high ranked players and also played highly ranked teams from all over the country.

If Cal would have coached them for 4 years I have no doubt the players would have gotten better, thus the results would have been better.

Keep dreaming. The Magic were highly regarded, but AAU teams aren't ranked. Cal would've never recruited those kids because he didn't want to deal with local kids.

Hamilton is a real team that beat an undefeated ranked team, and may never even win the State. Oak Hill = Laurenburg. Hamilton = two Lawson's.

See the difference?

(01-12-2015 03:48 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:37 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:54 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  And before anyone chimes in with 'but Pastner did his thing in CUSA .2', so did Cal.

Some of you guys talking about supporting the coach evidently can’t see what’s actually going on during games. What about the players?

I can see clearly into year 6 the players deserve a better coach, plus the university & boosters are not getting their 2.6 million dollars worth.

You don't understand that you're not giving the players your support by continuing to trash their coach.

100% not true. You can in fact support the players and bash the coach. We want better for the players. They deserve a better chance of developing into a pro on some level

This constant bashing and bickering is getting to just be stupid. No one is going to change their mind. The bashers are going to continue to bash and the supporters are going to continue to support. In most arguments both sides have their particular reasons and no one is going to change that thought process regardless. Let's just drop all of this crap on the board and see how things turn out.

(01-12-2015 06:10 AM)TIGERBUDDY Wrote:  This constant bashing and bickering is getting to just be stupid. No one is going to change their mind. The bashers are going to continue to bash and the supporters are going to continue to support. In most arguments both sides have their particular reasons and no one is going to change that thought process regardless. Let's just drop all of this crap on the board and see how things turn out.

Yup. Too many people think if the team wins it's because of talent and losses are all coaching. Folks too invested in their opinions now

(01-11-2015 11:20 PM)ddramone Wrote:  I agree that all teams have an off-year. There is a problem with chronic underachieving that begets apathy. I think one of the biggest reasons why there is so much angst on this board is that we can all see how apathy has really started to creep in. I am not hitting the panic button, but I think everyone here has to agree that attendance is not what is was and apathy has set in. Of course I support the program, it's just that I am starting to believe that CJP is not the right guy to guide the PROGRAM.

Six years without a Sweet Sixteen in a town with direct NBA competition is asking for trouble.

I agree with this the most. A lot of us are just a little bit scared because if you really have been around and have your finger on the pulse of the program, you would have to be blind not to see the apathy starting to get stronger. It doesn't mean we don't want CJP to do well, it's just that it is hard to argue that he has ever achieved a level of success that is commensurate with his resources, salary, talent level in recruiting, etc. Heck, the best job he did with the players he had may have been his first year..........

A lot of us just want to see some trending up. Because we are sucking this year is NOT the only sign. Us getting bashed early in the NCAA the last couple of years is not really progress.

TM

(01-11-2015 11:20 PM)ddramone Wrote:  I agree that all teams have an off-year. There is a problem with chronic underachieving that begets apathy. I think one of the biggest reasons why there is so much angst on this board is that we can all see how apathy has really started to creep in. I am not hitting the panic button, but I think everyone here has to agree that attendance is not what is was and apathy has set in. Of course I support the program, it's just that I am starting to believe that CJP is not the right guy to guide the PROGRAM.

Six years without a Sweet Sixteen in a town with direct NBA competition is asking for trouble.

Friend, there are a whole bunch of college basketball teams in America that haven't seen the Sweet Sixteen in six years. Some have never see that level.

Come up here to outer space - the view is fantastic

(01-12-2015 02:46 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:14 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:58 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:53 AM)alcalde Wrote:  I get tired of posts that think its all black and white, and that if you don't like Pastner than you don't support the team or your not a good fan.

I believe most of the Pastner haters on here support the players, and want to see us win. I am one of those. I really don't like Pastner as a coach, but I was happy to see us win today and have acknowledged the improvements from the start of the season.

The idea that one has to blindly support the coach is ridiculous. Im a huge Tiger fan that loves my team and want better for us.

I agree. I could never stand Calipari but I never bashed him while he was the coach because I felt like that would be bashing the the whole team.
Now that he is gone, it's open season. I just wish the Pastner bashers felt the same.

Cal had his fair share of bashers early on but after the disappointing seasons before Cal came, people were a bit more patient. Cal's teams at least had an identity...most of his teams were tough-nosed defensively.

As far as his last 4 years....even if you didn't like him, you couldn't bash him.

As for Pastner, his teams have lacked an identity. There are no offensive schemes that's applied consistently and defensively, his teams have been inconsistent as well. If you know what his team's identity is and his coaching philosophies are, let us know.

I think you, and most Josh bashers here, seem to overlook the fact that that 4 year run was fueled by the Laurenburg kids who already had developed a cohesive identity for two years prior to ever setting foot in Memphis and it wasn't until Cal got a ringer or two to add to the mix that they were ever a Final Four type teams.
Thank World Wide Wes for that team, not Cal.

^THIS!! A ready made team. (and I loved everyone of them but they played together for years before coming here).

(01-12-2015 02:54 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  And before anyone chimes in with 'but Pastner did his thing in CUSA .2', so did Cal.

I guess Cal got blown out by any decent team he played too right??

(01-12-2015 02:46 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 02:14 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:58 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 12:53 AM)alcalde Wrote:  I get tired of posts that think its all black and white, and that if you don't like Pastner than you don't support the team or your not a good fan.

I believe most of the Pastner haters on here support the players, and want to see us win. I am one of those. I really don't like Pastner as a coach, but I was happy to see us win today and have acknowledged the improvements from the start of the season.

The idea that one has to blindly support the coach is ridiculous. Im a huge Tiger fan that loves my team and want better for us.

I agree. I could never stand Calipari but I never bashed him while he was the coach because I felt like that would be bashing the the whole team.
Now that he is gone, it's open season. I just wish the Pastner bashers felt the same.

Cal had his fair share of bashers early on but after the disappointing seasons before Cal came, people were a bit more patient. Cal's teams at least had an identity...most of his teams were tough-nosed defensively.

As far as his last 4 years....even if you didn't like him, you couldn't bash him.

As for Pastner, his teams have lacked an identity. There are no offensive schemes that's applied consistently and defensively, his teams have been inconsistent as well. If you know what his team's identity is and his coaching philosophies are, let us know.

I think you, and most Josh bashers here, seem to overlook the fact that that 4 year run was fueled by the Laurenburg kids who already had developed a cohesive identity for two years prior to ever setting foot in Memphis and it wasn't until Cal got a ringer or two to add to the mix that they were ever a Final Four type teams.
Thank World Wide Wes for that team, not Cal.

So Cal hasn't proven that he can build a cohesive team, your saying that team was only good because they played together the previous 2 years.

Secondly losing in the Elite 8 is not a final four type team...because they did that twice without any RINGERS

Pastner may turn it around but currently his teams show the same issues year to year.

I'm fine with a down year narrative and fine with Pastner getting another season based on said narrative.

But, if you return a solid nucleus (if he doesn't then something is horribly wrong) and are bringing in a top 10 rated recruiting class, THEN there is ZERO reason (barring crazy injuries) to have a consecutive down year.

In fact, Memphis should be a favorite for the AAC going into next year based on returning players and incoming players.

(01-11-2015 10:31 PM)juggoman Wrote:  Does not anyone remember Calipari losing a first round game in the NIT to Robert Morris and the KY faithful didn't say a word. He backed that up with a National Championship. One year does not define a program.

Maybe because they were were 1 year removed from winning the NC. You have your years backwards.

(01-12-2015 09:51 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I'm fine with a down year narrative and fine with Pastner getting another season based on said narrative.

But, if you return a solid nucleus (if he doesn't then something is horribly wrong) and are bringing in a top 10 rated recruiting class, THEN there is ZERO reason (barring crazy injuries) to have a consecutive down year.

In fact, Memphis should be a favorite for the AAC going into next year based on returning players and incoming players.

Well stated as I agree that next year has the potential to be a great year and will be a better indicator of CJP's ability to manage the program. The loss of key players from last year laid the ground work for a down year. My hope is that the negativity does not cause him to cut and run. While I agree with having lofty expectations, we are not UNC, or UK. Sweet Sixteens are not a birthright for us and did not become so until Cal came along.

I do think it is reasonable to expect a team to improve over the course of a season. I am still undecided if CJP is the coach to guide the program for the foreseeable future. My hope is that by the end of next year, we will have a definitive answer to that question. I will be tuned in regardless.

GTG!!!!

(01-12-2015 07:48 AM)eastcoastDave Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 11:20 PM)ddramone Wrote:  I agree that all teams have an off-year. There is a problem with chronic underachieving that begets apathy. I think one of the biggest reasons why there is so much angst on this board is that we can all see how apathy has really started to creep in. I am not hitting the panic button, but I think everyone here has to agree that attendance is not what is was and apathy has set in. Of course I support the program, it's just that I am starting to believe that CJP is not the right guy to guide the PROGRAM.

Six years without a Sweet Sixteen in a town with direct NBA competition is asking for trouble.

Friend, there are a whole bunch of college basketball teams in America that haven't seen the Sweet Sixteen in six years. Some have never see that level.

And of those....how many are in the top-15 for attendance, coaches pay, facilities and/or are located in a recruiting hotbed?