(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

These are the two conditions under which it is normally allowed. If CUSA dropped baseball, Rice could move to another conference, otherwise not.

(01-11-2015 07:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

These are the two conditions under which it is normally allowed. If CUSA dropped baseball, Rice could move to another conference, otherwise not.

Aha. Thanks for the clarification.

(01-11-2015 07:42 PM)jdh008 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

These are the two conditions under which it is normally allowed. If CUSA dropped baseball, Rice could move to another conference, otherwise not.

Aha. Thanks for the clarification.

McKinsey covered this in their study. I'm pretty sure the rules have not changed since then.

(01-11-2015 07:09 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

Yes, baseball is the #3 revenue sport (though #1 or #2 for us).

Just curious, how does college hockey compare to college baseball in terms of overall revenue? I'd think they're pretty close, but baseball wins just because of the greater number of teams?

(01-11-2015 08:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:09 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

Yes, baseball is the #3 revenue sport (though #1 or #2 for us).

Just curious, how does college hockey compare to college baseball in terms of overall revenue? I'd think they're pretty close, but baseball wins just because of the greater number of teams?

What's the average attendance for a typical regular season hockey game at places like Union College, North Dakota State, Minnesota, Harvard, Cornell, BC, Michigan and other perennial hockey powers? In baseball, the SEC and Big 12 schools average 6,000 - 10,000 for their 35+ home games each year. Up until the drop in home attendance last year, Reckling was averaging 3,300 - 3,500 from 2005 - '13.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/di...2013-2014/

There are the complete attendance figures for hockey... Some notables include:

Minnesota: 11,553
North Dakota: 11,338
Wisconsin: 10,478
Colorado College: 6,420
Boston College: 6,116

(01-11-2015 11:37 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/di...2013-2014/

There are the complete attendance figures for hockey... Some notables include:

Minnesota: 11,553
North Dakota: 11,338
Wisconsin: 10,478
Colorado College: 6,420
Boston College: 6,116

Which are comparable to the Top 10+ average attendance figures in college baseball, where I believe there are right around 10 programs averaging home attendance of 6,000+. The difference is that there are far more home baseball games each season than hockey and, consequently, I believe baseball generates more revenue.

Thank you. It just seems if we had that option we could gradually move into a major conference. Our women programs (Tennis, Soccer, not sure about swimming) could definitely compete and move into the major conferences without any problem.

(01-11-2015 07:42 PM)jdh008 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 07:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's not even that they are non Big 3 (I guess baseball is that important?). It's that they appear to be sports that the university's main conference does not offer (men's soccer for SEC) or they are a division above their athletic conference (Hopkins for lacrosse).

These are the two conditions under which it is normally allowed. If CUSA dropped baseball, Rice could move to another conference, otherwise not.

Aha. Thanks for the clarification.

Other than Air Force and New Mexico, the only baseball schools in the MWC are in California and Nevada. It does not look like it is that great of conference for baseball.

(01-11-2015 04:06 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 12:17 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 12:13 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  Those improvements look great. I have to say that I really like ODU's team and staff. Really classy bunch who play the game the way it should be played. The one catch is that it is 1400 miles away! The travel expenses associated with getting teams or fans to and from the western areas to ODU are absurd and vice-versa. The only thing that could make CUSA manageable at this point would be to create two divisions with limited trips to the expensive destinations.

You're now complaining about CUSA travel costs, but you're advocating moving to the MWC, where the travel cost will be twice what it is for CUSA?

As I understand it, flying around the MWC would be a wash compared to the expenses in CUSA and would not involve the old fly three hours and bus two that we now get. From Houston anyway, it is cheaper to go west to MW cities, cheaper still to go to AAC cities than CUSA stops. If you can fly southwest you save a ton in baggage fees that sports teams have a lot of. It is also my understanding that since Continental died and was taken over by the united zombies, we get no breaks from them at all. I don't know how ODU does it because getting there is like flying to Hawaii.

(01-12-2015 03:09 PM)75src Wrote:  Other than Air Force and New Mexico, the only baseball schools in the MWC are in California and Nevada. It does not look like it is that great of conference for baseball.

(01-11-2015 04:06 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 12:17 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 12:13 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  Those improvements look great. I have to say that I really like ODU's team and staff. Really classy bunch who play the game the way it should be played. The one catch is that it is 1400 miles away! The travel expenses associated with getting teams or fans to and from the western areas to ODU are absurd and vice-versa. The only thing that could make CUSA manageable at this point would be to create two divisions with limited trips to the expensive destinations.

You're now complaining about CUSA travel costs, but you're advocating moving to the MWC, where the travel cost will be twice what it is for CUSA?

As I understand it, flying around the MWC would be a wash compared to the expenses in CUSA and would not involve the old fly three hours and bus two that we now get. From Houston anyway, it is cheaper to go west to MW cities, cheaper still to go to AAC cities than CUSA stops. If you can fly southwest you save a ton in baggage fees that sports teams have a lot of. It is also my understanding that since Continental died and was taken over by the united zombies, we get no breaks from them at all. I don't know how ODU does it because getting there is like flying to Hawaii.

It has historically stunk in baseball. Not very good is an understatement.

What have you got against Southern California?

(01-12-2015 10:34 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:26 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:09 PM)75src Wrote:  Other than Air Force and New Mexico, the only baseball schools in the MWC are in California and Nevada. It does not look like it is that great of conference for baseball.

(01-11-2015 04:06 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 12:17 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  You're now complaining about CUSA travel costs, but you're advocating moving to the MWC, where the travel cost will be twice what it is for CUSA?

As I understand it, flying around the MWC would be a wash compared to the expenses in CUSA and would not involve the old fly three hours and bus two that we now get. From Houston anyway, it is cheaper to go west to MW cities, cheaper still to go to AAC cities than CUSA stops. If you can fly southwest you save a ton in baggage fees that sports teams have a lot of. It is also my understanding that since Continental died and was taken over by the united zombies, we get no breaks from them at all. I don't know how ODU does it because getting there is like flying to Hawaii.

It has historically stunk in baseball. Not very good is an understatement.

I guess you concede the travel stuff so now you want to move on to the next point. I think you are being dishonest with yourself here. If Rice is not in CUSA is there anything in that league baseball related that is even remotely worth defending? You would be super negative about CUSA without Rice and you would be justified. It would rate lower than the sunbelt and be on par with the Southland. If Rice were in the MW there would be two schools with National championships and at least two others with possibilities to get in the tourney. IN AAC you have a pretty salty conference if Rice is in it, at least better than CUSA or as it really should be called, the new Sunbelt. Let me be clear, I don't care where we go as long as we go. I never want to play a school with Middle in its name again or play a geographic anything unless it is followed by Carolina.

Who the heck has conceded the travel argument? In this post I was responding to a specific question re. the MWC and baseball, and my response was factually accurate. We get it-- you HATE the conference where are in, but stop pretending that the grass is greener in every other G5 conference. It's not. We are not going to go from CUSA to another G5 conference. Give it up already.

I can't get excited about baseball. Football and basketball rule. Baseball is too slow.

(01-12-2015 11:45 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I can't get excited about baseball. Football and basketball rule. Baseball is too slow.

Baseball has done more to keep Rice on the map within the NCAA than any other sport over the last 20 to 25 years. The effort expended to keep baseball nationally relevant is well spent.

(01-12-2015 11:58 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:06 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 10:34 PM)interwebowl Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:26 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 03:09 PM)75src Wrote:  Other than Air Force and New Mexico, the only baseball schools in the MWC are in California and Nevada. It does not look like it is that great of conference for baseball.

It has historically stunk in baseball. Not very good is an understatement.

I guess you concede the travel stuff so now you want to move on to the next point. I think you are being dishonest with yourself here. If Rice is not in CUSA is there anything in that league baseball related that is even remotely worth defending? You would be super negative about CUSA without Rice and you would be justified. It would rate lower than the sunbelt and be on par with the Southland. If Rice were in the MW there would be two schools with National championships and at least two others with possibilities to get in the tourney. IN AAC you have a pretty salty conference if Rice is in it, at least better than CUSA or as it really should be called, the new Sunbelt. Let me be clear, I don't care where we go as long as we go. I never want to play a school with Middle in its name again or play a geographic anything unless it is followed by Carolina.

Who the heck has conceded the travel argument? In this post I was responding to a specific question re. the MWC and baseball, and my response was factually accurate. We get it-- you HATE the conference where are in, but stop pretending that the grass is greener in every other G5 conference. It's not. We are not going to go from CUSA to another G5 conference. Give it up already.

And you love it! We get it, but I just want to know why? Don't get all mad, just tell me if you like these schools and Rice being a part of cusa? Do you think they are better at something? Do you think we have something in common with them? Will we save money or make more money? Will we sell more tickets? So far I see nothing that convinces me that this is a better fit. Please explain?

1. CUSA seems to appreciate our membership. The MWC (who left us and our 16-8 conference record in the WAC16 behind) obviously did not at one point, and the AAC, judging by who they invited recently, does not now.
2. We have little in common with ANY schools around us, except for our long-time affiliation with the SWC, which is unfortunately 100% meaningless to anyone except us (and schools who want us for OOC games). The schools we are most like that are not on the east coast are Washington University and U of Chicago, and they don't play Division 1 sports.
3. The only bump we really get in ticket sales are UT and A&M (plus regionals and Supers as the case may be). U of H is above average, but we play them regardless. All of those are ex-SWC schools. Other than that, change in G5 conference affiliation won't impact baseball ticket sales (or other ticket sales for that matter).
4. Whether it is a better fit or not is immaterial. It's the ONLY fit we've got. Yes, I'd like to be in a conference with SMU and U of Houston (or TCU, but that ship sailed long ago). But it obviously isn't an option for us.

Good post Rick...nicely summed up.

Spot on summation of the situation, Rick-- nicely done. And since this thread is about baseball, I will add (again) that outside the Big 4 baseball conferences (SEC, ACC, Big 12, Pac-12), CUSA is no worse than the others, and historically has been better. Our affiliation with CUSA has not hurt our baseball fortunes largely because conference games only represent 45% - 55% of regular season games played, and since there are so many Top 50 - 75 ranked teams nearby in Texas, we have no trouble filling our schedule with the necessary number of Top 25/50/100 teams to maintain a relatively high RPI. Keep in mind, we may not play as many games against Top 25/50 teams as those elite programs in the SEC, ACC and Big 12, but we also play fewer sub-150 RPI games (which are front-loaded into the home schedule for most programs in the Big 4 conferences).

(01-12-2015 11:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:45 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I can't get excited about baseball. Football and basketball rule. Baseball is too slow.

Baseball has done more to keep Rice on the map within the NCAA than any other sport over the last 20 to 25 years. The effort expended to keep baseball nationally relevant is well spent.

Totally agree, I just personally can't sit through a baseball game, unless it's an Astros game once a year and I'm completing a scorecard

(01-13-2015 08:29 AM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:45 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I can't get excited about baseball. Football and basketball rule. Baseball is too slow.

Baseball has done more to keep Rice on the map within the NCAA than any other sport over the last 20 to 25 years. The effort expended to keep baseball nationally relevant is well spent.

Totally agree, I just personally can't sit through a baseball game, unless it's an Astros game once a year and I'm completing a scorecard

Why not make the game a Rice game. I'm sure Mssr Reinhold ( inveterate scorekeeper that he is ) would enjoy trading opinions on whether the official scorekeeper is making correct calls or not.

(01-13-2015 11:22 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  

(01-13-2015 08:29 AM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:45 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I can't get excited about baseball. Football and basketball rule. Baseball is too slow.

Baseball has done more to keep Rice on the map within the NCAA than any other sport over the last 20 to 25 years. The effort expended to keep baseball nationally relevant is well spent.

Totally agree, I just personally can't sit through a baseball game, unless it's an Astros game once a year and I'm completing a scorecard

Why not make the game a Rice game. I'm sure Mssr Reinhold ( inveterate scorekeeper that he is ) would enjoy trading opinions on whether the official scorekeeper is making correct calls or not.

But be sure to wear your track shoes as Bob wanders around a bit. Sort of like a prairie dog and he will pop up behind you and then be gone only to be seen popping up two sections away.