And some do less. Double whiff.

(01-05-2015 02:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  AND Pastner will never protect his big guys when fouls become an issue by using the zone. Maybe he just can't teach it, I don't know, but it's going to continue to cost this team big.

I wonder what the last 3 years would have looked like had Jack Murphy not been offered a head coaching position. We played a very effective 1-3-1 when he was here, and with less talent than what we have had since.

My big concern is that we are/have been experiencing a noticeable drop-off (with few exceptions) in defensive strategy/intensity since JP began his head coaching stint.

While offense can come and go from one game to the next, tough defense is something that should happen EVERY game regardless of the opponent...particularly against cream-puffs like CBU.

I think Josh is a great guy and fine human being, but darn it, he's making a Top 10 income and should be averaging Top 10 results...heck, I'd even be okay with a down year like this year if we were sniffing some Sweet 16s/Elite 8s in prior years.

So why are our 4 star guards getting worked by unrated guys

The bottom line is the book is out on our team...set a couple of high screens and you will get an opening. Our athletes may make a good play and close the hole, but there will be a glaring hole in the defense just by setting a simple screen

the Roster isn't void of talent...just a lack of strategy to use it...put this same roster in the hands of A PLAN..and it's a tournament team

Winning is too hard for this coaching staff...about to harder over the next month. Prophesy...

(01-05-2015 05:35 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:53 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:41 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  AND Pastner will never protect his big guys when fouls become an issue by using the zone. Maybe he just can't teach it, I don't know, but it's going to continue to cost this team big.

Hate to say it again but this team does not have BB IQ to effectively play zone.

How do we know? We haven't seen it. That's why you use it in the low level games we just had over the last few weeks. Also something Pastner refused to do.
You have got to mix it in.

What are you talking about?!? One of the best examples is in one of the posters sig. right in this forum. I won't call out players, because that's not ever a good thing, but these kids have never been taught about zone defenses. Especially the more complicated ones

The point you just made: ” but these kids have never been taught about zone defenses. Especially the more complicated ones” IS the issue.

If they have never been taught the zone they should have been. If they have worked on it then it should be used when needed.

Either way not implementing the zone for whatever reason limits the defensive options and strategy. It’s like not having a plan “B” when plan “A” doesn’t work.

(01-05-2015 01:54 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Always the players fault



Smh

when the same player turns the ball over 3 times in a row...yes

(01-05-2015 02:06 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  I think plenty of people have placed blame on the guard play - specifically Pookie. Even when I've taken up for Pookie, I acknowledged he had a bad game. So don't act like everyone is placing the entirety of the blame on the coach. It simply is NOT true.

It's the coach's duty to make adjustments. It's his job to recognize that the game is turning. It's his job to figure that out...I don't know what i would've done in that situation, but I don't get paid $2.7M to make those decisions. Yes, guard play cost us that game...the coach should've recognize it was trending that way and made proper adjustments.

Memphis is in the same position the Grizz were in for a long time...no backup pg that we can trust right now

(01-05-2015 02:16 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:11 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:03 PM)2tigers Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 01:54 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Always the players fault



Smh

Always Pastner's fault. We have to face the fact that we do not have the guards this year to be successful and this is Pastner's fault. But he was counting on an All SEC guard to be his guard this year but crap happens some time. We are stuck with what we have and hope for the best.

Puh-leeze. Pastner was in desperation mode when he signed Kedron Johsnon because he had figured he didn't have a D1 PG on campus....which of course is his fault to begin with. But instead, you would rather blame this dumpster fire on a kid who everyone knew hadn't been in a gym for over a year?

The bottom is he went all in when he recruited Geron one year and Dixon the next. I loved those two guys but it was a slap in the face to Joe, Antonio and Chris. He had 3 years to recruit a younger point guard and didn't. He's paying for it now eapecially since his best option, Pookie, wasn't even allowed to practice last season. But that's on HIM not Pookie.

WHY couldn't Pookie play last year?
Oh yeah, bad grades coming out of high school....right.
Seems like a small bit of blame for Pookie rests with Pookie. You have to take care of business grade wise first. That isn't on the Coach, that is on the player.
I DO agree that the coach is paying for a mistake of not having an experienced point guard developed coming in to this season though.

I don't believe people that say they hate to do something and then do it anyway. I think they really wanted to do it. However, I still think Josh' time is done here.

(01-05-2015 05:35 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:53 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:41 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  AND Pastner will never protect his big guys when fouls become an issue by using the zone. Maybe he just can't teach it, I don't know, but it's going to continue to cost this team big.

Hate to say it again but this team does not have BB IQ to effectively play zone.

How do we know? We haven't seen it. That's why you use it in the low level games we just had over the last few weeks. Also something Pastner refused to do.
You have got to mix it in.

What are you talking about?!? One of the best examples is in one of the posters sig. right in this forum. I won't call out players, because that's not ever a good thing, but these kids have never been taught about zone defenses. Especially the more complicated ones

Then Pastner should be fired right now instead of the end of the season.

Just look at how the crowds get smaller and smaller each game. Many, many empty seats at every game. There was a time, and I'm not just talking about the Cal years, that when an Okla.St. would come to town the place would be packed. Not so this year. I hold 7 season tix, so I'm able to bring family and friends to the games. Next year I'm cutting it to 2. I know quite a few season ticket holders who are avid Tiger fans who are not going to renew next year, which is not a good sign. Apathy is setting in with many Tiger fans, the buzz around Tiger basketball is gone. Time for a change.

(01-05-2015 02:57 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Well at least Pastner has unified the fan base...against himself. He has had 3 different sets of players in his time here. Is it bad that I think that his 1st year Cal leftovers were his best team, but far from the most talented? The guy has had a stacked roster every year he has been here because of his recruiting, but this year with only 2 or 3 players of his normal stackedness the wheels have come off. It doesn't help that we have a 2-guard and a 5 that routinely go 0-fer in the starting lineup.

Stackedness? You must be a UK grad.

(01-05-2015 02:01 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Or, he could've recruited and signed better players/guards, so that a redshirted freshman isn't the key to the offense.

Tommy West's downfall was that he never recruited a QB to replace Danny. You would never get another DeAngelo but you would think some decent RB would have wanted to come to Memphis to play in the system where DeAngelo did so well.

(01-05-2015 01:52 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  But I though this needed to be said. I'm by no means a sunshine pumper and also think josh has room for improvement. All the folks blaming the Tulane loss on josh are crazy. You can say what you want about him being responsible for what players are available, etc., but that individual game was all about horrendous guard play. I thought the game plan of feeding Nichols was good. The guards were just awful.

Good Point, Josh should be all over the AD for not drafting a PG two years ago so that there are no experienced point guards on the roster. How can the AD expect good guard play when he forced Josh to play with short rookie guards?!

(01-06-2015 09:31 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 01:52 PM)Mtyler Wrote:  But I though this needed to be said. I'm by no means a sunshine pumper and also think josh has room for improvement. All the folks blaming the Tulane loss on josh are crazy. You can say what you want about him being responsible for what players are available, etc., but that individual game was all about horrendous guard play. I thought the game plan of feeding Nichols was good. The guards were just awful.

Good Point, Josh should be all over the AD for not drafting a PG two years ago so that there are no experienced point guards on the roster. How can the AD expect good guard play when he forced Josh to play with short rookie guards?!

Wow! Sounds like the Blue Door crew is even off the Pastner train.

(01-06-2015 07:57 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:35 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:53 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:41 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  AND Pastner will never protect his big guys when fouls become an issue by using the zone. Maybe he just can't teach it, I don't know, but it's going to continue to cost this team big.

Hate to say it again but this team does not have BB IQ to effectively play zone.

How do we know? We haven't seen it. That's why you use it in the low level games we just had over the last few weeks. Also something Pastner refused to do.
You have got to mix it in.

What are you talking about?!? One of the best examples is in one of the posters sig. right in this forum. I won't call out players, because that's not ever a good thing, but these kids have never been taught about zone defenses. Especially the more complicated ones

Then Pastner should be fired right now instead of the end of the season.

That's not on Pastner. You can see they are in a zone. They know where their responsibilities are in the zone. You can see that they have practiced it. But in game situations kids revert back to what they have been doing for the last 12 years. Bad habits reinforced by bad coaches. "AAU" ball mentality. Ever see 3rd graders play basketball? I have, because I used to coach them. That's how a lot of college players play. 5 players swarm to the ball on defense and whoever has the ball coming across halfcourt jacks up the shot.

If Pastner has a fault it is this. When he recruits players he sees athletic ability and if the kid can score the ball. He believes that he can teach him defense. But what Josh doesn't look for is a kid that's got "it". A natural understanding of the game. Some of us call it fundamentals. Instinctively knowing where to be, when to pass, when to shot fake, when to lean into a defender to draw a foul, how to guard 2 guys when they go on a fast break the other way, how to rub a screen. Again, not to jump on any particular player, we have two players who can't dribble on our team. If you know basketball, you know who they are. We have a guy who can't catch an entry pass, fumbles every rebound. You can coach him over and over, but if he doesn't listen or - in most cases - game situations gets rushed, it's a turnover.

Sometimes players will eventually get it, a lot of times they won't. This year we see Austin "getting it". Freshmen are exempt. They are freshmen and need to get up to speed on the D1 game before we can judge. Many here are right that last year Josh should have had a PG get minutes in mop up to get some experience. 4 senior guards are nice until the next year - as we are finding out.

It wasn't Starks career game as you all call it. The kid is a great ball player. He scored 24 before. Calm down kids. This team has TO issues. They have progressed since the beginning of the year. What hurt was that we went cold the last 3 minutes of the game and they got hot. Tulane isn't a bad team as everybody thinks. We are in a rebuilding year, It isn't going to get better overnight. It we look like this next year, then we have some issues that need to be discussed. I don't recall KY firing Cal after winning the NC losing the first round of the NIT to Robert Morris, or Roy Williams getting fired for going to the NIT the year after their NC. Yes we didn't win a NC but those were rebuilding years for them as well.

(01-06-2015 10:02 AM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(01-06-2015 07:57 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:35 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:53 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 02:41 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  Hate to say it again but this team does not have BB IQ to effectively play zone.

How do we know? We haven't seen it. That's why you use it in the low level games we just had over the last few weeks. Also something Pastner refused to do.
You have got to mix it in.

What are you talking about?!? One of the best examples is in one of the posters sig. right in this forum. I won't call out players, because that's not ever a good thing, but these kids have never been taught about zone defenses. Especially the more complicated ones

Then Pastner should be fired right now instead of the end of the season.

That's not on Pastner. You can see they are in a zone. They know where their responsibilities are in the zone. You can see that they have practiced it. But in game situations kids revert back to what they have been doing for the last 12 years. Bad habits reinforced by bad coaches. "AAU" ball mentality. Ever see 3rd graders play basketball? I have, because I used to coach them. That's how a lot of college players play. 5 players swarm to the ball on defense and whoever has the ball coming across halfcourt jacks up the shot.

If Pastner has a fault it is this. When he recruits players he sees athletic ability and if the kid can score the ball. He believes that he can teach him defense. But what Josh doesn't look for is a kid that's got "it". A natural understanding of the game. Some of us call it fundamentals. Instinctively knowing where to be, when to pass, when to shot fake, when to lean into a defender to draw a foul, how to guard 2 guys when they go on a fast break the other way, how to rub a screen. Again, not to jump on any particular player, we have two players who can't dribble on our team. If you know basketball, you know who they are. We have a guy who can't catch an entry pass, fumbles every rebound. You can coach him over and over, but if he doesn't listen or - in most cases - game situations gets rushed, it's a turnover.

Sometimes players will eventually get it, a lot of times they won't. This year we see Austin "getting it". Freshmen are exempt. They are freshmen and need to get up to speed on the D1 game before we can judge. Many here are right that last year Josh should have had a PG get minutes in mop up to get some experience. 4 senior guards are nice until the next year - as we are finding out.

Josh is just not a defensive coach. He hardly ever subs for bad defense. I wish I had a nickel for every time he called a sub back from the scorers table when the player he was going to replace made a shot. It sends a bad message imo.

(01-06-2015 10:14 AM)40kel Wrote:  It wasn't Starks career game as you all call it. The kid is a great ball player. He scored 24 before. Calm down kids. This team has TO issues. They have progressed since the beginning of the year. What hurt was that we went cold the last 3 minutes of the game and they got hot. Tulane isn't a bad team as everybody thinks. We are in a rebuilding year, It isn't going to get better overnight. It we look like this next year, then we have some issues that need to be discussed. I don't recall KY firing Cal after winning the NC losing the first round of the NIT to Robert Morris, or Roy Williams getting fired for going to the NIT the year after their NC. Yes we didn't win a NC but those were rebuilding years for them as well.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.

You go win a NC, or FF or an E8 and lose players off that team, you'll get some room for "slippage." Not when you come off of consecutive blowouts in the NCAAt.

I don't even care about the WSU, Baylor or OSU games, except that Memphis was run off the court in them. I expected Memphis to be 10-3 at this point.

BUT home losses to SFA (by 12) and Tulane (Memphis was an 11 point favorite) are inexcusable. Memphis, with the talent on that team should be able to sleepwalk through those games and win by 10.