(01-04-2015 06:12 PM)Antarius Wrote:  UTEP was bigger, faster and stronger than Rice. But wow, the Owls played some inspired defense today. When Rice pulled within 3 the crowd noise was great as well.

UTEP is #1 in CUSA. If we continue to play like this, IMO, we have a good chance at winning several more conference games.

I don't know - kenpom has ODU in the top 50 and Louisiana Tech also ahead of UTEP. Massey also has ODU top 50 and La Tech just behind UTEP. ODU is 12-1 with a decent SoS of 138 (per Massey), but not as good per kenpom (228). 2 quality wins (VCU, LSU), 1 bad loss (neutral site to Illinois State). I'm trying to see if I can carve out time in my schedule to catch the game next week (a Thursday night with probably a 2+ hour drive involved).

(01-04-2015 10:50 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(01-04-2015 07:24 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  The "final" stats on RiceOwls.com show #20 Morris with 2 technicals.

Another interesting stat, UTEP only used 7 players.

In the detailed play by play, the 2nd technical was with 7 seconds left in the game. However, it doesn't show a sub out/in, which it should show when a player gets his second technical. And in this case, it should have been his 5th foul, too. Either way, he should have been out. Did the stat guy just stop tracking stuff at this point? Sure seems that way, as stats stop at 7 seconds with the 2 made free throws off the last technical.

Was the rim hanging on Rice's end? Because both technicals happen on Rice possessions. Or did he just not get a technical for hanging on the rim? I didn't watch the game, so don't know.

It was on the Rice end. Tough technical because if he doesn't grab the rim, he'll just about break the back of the Rice player (Guercy?) who was under the basket and stopped short. So, I think it was well-intentioned. The talking heads said he was out of the game at that point. He was a very good player who made a bad judgement in complaining about one foul for a technical and then grabbed the rim to avoid hurting the Rice player. He just seemed very emotional and a bit impulsive.

Morris clearly knew it was his 5th foul and his 2nd technical as he walked towards the bench while the Refs huddled. After the FTs as everyone was getting positioned on the court Morris turned around and became part of the 5 UTEP players on the floor. The Refs never did make a definitive gesture that he was gone from the game.

I don't know whether these 3 zebras had ties to the NFL refs working the playoffs this weekend (especially in Dallas) or they just said "what the heck, it's only Rice, or they are just incompetent. Maybe Houston Owl can give us some insight from the scorers table.

I think there are now three types of technical fouls...(i) an administrative technical, (ii) a Class A (Unsporting Technical Foul) and (ii) a Class B technical foul.

An administrative technical is due primarily to technical non-compliance (i.e. a player wears prohibited clothing, team doesn't present starting line up in time, a play number is incorrect, the court is improper, etc).

A Class A Foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from a disrespectful gesture towards an official.

A Class B foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from "hanging on the rim" without justification.

A player can be ejected for two Class "A" fouls or three Class "B" fouls but he needs one Class "A" and two Class "B" fouls to be ejected. In this situation, the player had one Class "A" and one Class "B". I think they got it right, he gets to continue to play.

(01-05-2015 11:35 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  I think there are now three types of technical fouls...(i) an administrative technical, (ii) a Class A (Unsporting Technical Foul) and (ii) a Class B technical foul.

An administrative technical is due primarily to technical non-compliance (i.e. a player wears prohibited clothing, team doesn't present starting line up in time, a play number is incorrect, the court is improper, etc).

A Class A Foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from a disrespectful gesture towards an official.

A Class B foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from "hanging on the rim" without justification.

A player can be ejected for two Class "A" fouls or three Class "B" fouls but he needs one Class "A" and two Class "B" fouls to be ejected. In this situation, the player had one Class "A" and one Class "B". I think they got it right, he gets to continue to play.

Thanks! Hmm, not sure whether to go with a or or

(01-05-2015 12:22 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 11:35 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  I think there are now three types of technical fouls...(i) an administrative technical, (ii) a Class A (Unsporting Technical Foul) and (ii) a Class B technical foul.

An administrative technical is due primarily to technical non-compliance (i.e. a player wears prohibited clothing, team doesn't present starting line up in time, a play number is incorrect, the court is improper, etc).

A Class A Foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from a disrespectful gesture towards an official.

A Class B foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from "hanging on the rim" without justification.

A player can be ejected for two Class "A" fouls or three Class "B" fouls but he needs one Class "A" and two Class "B" fouls to be ejected. In this situation, the player had one Class "A" and one Class "B". I think they got it right, he gets to continue to play.

Thanks! Hmm, not sure whether to go with a or or

How about

(01-05-2015 11:35 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  I think there are now three types of technical fouls...(i) an administrative technical, (ii) a Class A (Unsporting Technical Foul) and (ii) a Class B technical foul.

An administrative technical is due primarily to technical non-compliance (i.e. a player wears prohibited clothing, team doesn't present starting line up in time, a play number is incorrect, the court is improper, etc).

A Class A Foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from a disrespectful gesture towards an official.

A Class B foul counts as a team foul and a personal foul and in this case, results from "hanging on the rim" without justification.

A player can be ejected for two Class "A" fouls or three Class "B" fouls but he needs one Class "A" and two Class "B" fouls to be ejected. In this situation, the player had one Class "A" and one Class "B". I think they got it right, he gets to continue to play.

Thanks for the explanation, though I think you meant to say a Class B DOES NOT count toward personal or team foul count. I found a Powerpoint that describes the processing fairly easily:
http://cboaofficial.org/Technical%20Foul...%209-08%20[Compatibility%20Mode].pdf

I wasn't aware of the distinction - I'm used to playing adult league basketball (college rules) where dunking is an automatic ejection, so we didn't have to worry about this - so count this as something new learned today.

You're right....a Class B technical does NOT count as a team foul or a personal foul.

Thanks.

Thanks for the education. When were these new rules implemented?

I guess I'm old school, but I don't understand the need for different technical fouls and punishments. I'd have tossed #20 after his theatrics on the first technical.

(01-05-2015 04:32 PM)gsloth Wrote:  I found a Powerpoint that describes the processing fairly easily:
http://cboaofficial.org/Technical%20Foul...%209-08%20[Compatibility%20Mode].pdf

Not only did that link break the board software, it also broke goo.gl.

Here's a tinyurl to the powerpoint: http://tinyurl.com/kpwmmdw

(01-05-2015 06:45 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Thanks for the education. When were these new rules implemented?

I guess I'm old school, but I don't understand the need for different technical fouls and punishments. I'd have tossed #20 after his theatrics on the first technical.

For me that was worth a 10 minute misconduct penalty. Misconduct's are great ways to punish the player but not put the team shorthanded.

And thanks Houston Owl for the explanation should have asked you right away.

So, Morris was smart to grab the rim... if he didn't, he'd have been disqualified due to his 5th foul (as I understand the situation).

Notably, has anyone ever seen the score at opening tipoff be 2-0 (or anything but 0-0)?

if a 10 minute misconduct penalty is not forthcoming, maybe his coach should sit him for a few minutes until he calms down to avoid more trouble.

(01-05-2015 07:07 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:45 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Thanks for the education. When were these new rules implemented?

I guess I'm old school, but I don't understand the need for different technical fouls and punishments. I'd have tossed #20 after his theatrics on the first technical.

For me that was worth a 10 minute misconduct penalty. Misconduct's are great ways to punish the player but not put the team shorthanded.

And thanks Houston Owl for the explanation should have asked you right away.

(01-05-2015 07:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  So, Morris was smart to grab the rim... if he didn't, he'd have been disqualified due to his 5th foul (as I understand the situation).

Notably, has anyone ever seen the score at opening tipoff be 2-0 (or anything but 0-0)?

Actually, there wasn't an opening tipoff, but our old friend Lynn Shortnacy once hit Rice with a technical during the player introductions because Rice students were throwing gummy bears at the Baylor players. Interestingly enough, Shortnacy had also worked the game at Waco that year, and did not call a technical when Baylor students showered Rice players with rice during the introduction. Baylor hit the free throw (can't remember whether one or two were awarded) and got to put the ball inbounds rather than a tipoff. Rice did get the possession arrow in our favor.

(01-05-2015 08:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 07:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  So, Morris was smart to grab the rim... if he didn't, he'd have been disqualified due to his 5th foul (as I understand the situation).

Notably, has anyone ever seen the score at opening tipoff be 2-0 (or anything but 0-0)?

Actually, there wasn't an opening tipoff, but our old friend Lynn Shortnacy once hit Rice with a technical during the player introductions because Rice students were throwing gummy bears at the Baylor players. Interestingly enough, Shortnacy had also worked the game at Waco that year, and did not call a technical when Baylor students showered Rice players with rice during the introduction. Baylor hit the free throw (can't remember whether one or two were awarded) and got to put the ball inbounds rather than a tipoff. Rice did get the possession arrow in our favor.

Per the slides, that should have been a class B and a tip-off (like pre-game dunking situation) and not a side-out. And while not a 2-0 situation, the tournament game between Kentucky and Kansas State this past spring started out at 1-0 due to a pre-game dunk (and 1 missed free throw).

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/03/kansas-s...t-kentucky

(01-05-2015 08:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 07:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  So, Morris was smart to grab the rim... if he didn't, he'd have been disqualified due to his 5th foul (as I understand the situation).

Notably, has anyone ever seen the score at opening tipoff be 2-0 (or anything but 0-0)?

Actually, there wasn't an opening tipoff, but our old friend Lynn Shortnacy once hit Rice with a technical during the player introductions because Rice students were throwing gummy bears at the Baylor players. Interestingly enough, Shortnacy had also worked the game at Waco that year, and did not call a technical when Baylor students showered Rice players with rice during the introduction. Baylor hit the free throw (can't remember whether one or two were awarded) and got to put the ball inbounds rather than a tipoff. Rice did get the possession arrow in our favor.

I remember attending that game as a student, but will neither confirm nor deny my involvement in said candy-tossing incident. I did some digging around on the interwebs, and found this game story:

Quote: February 17, 1993, HOUSTON — Rice rallied behind 22 points by Torrey Andrews and held off a late Baylor charge for an 84-77 victory Wednesday night. The Owls, 14-6 overall and 8-2 in their Southwest Conference, nearly blew a 66-50 lead with 9:09 remaining, allowing Baylor within 78-73 with 55 seconds to play. Baylor (14-7 and 6-4) got a 2-0 advantage before the game even started when fans threw candy on the court, prompting officials to give Aundre Branch a pair of technical foul shots. Rice took the lead for good late in the first half and led 44-37 at halftime even though Brent Scott, the Owls' second leading scorer, had played only five minutes after getting two early fouls. He finished with 9 points.

The Owls edged ahead over the final minutes of the first half, aided by a 6-0 run that included a crowd- pleasing dunk by 5-11 Marvin Moore for a 40-34 lead with 2:25 left in the half. Branch led Baylor with 26 points. Alex Holcombe, the Bears' leading scorer with a 19.3 average, scored 11 points — all in the first half — and drew his fourth foul early in the second half. Six Rice players scored in double figures.

"We've got to develop that killer instinct real quick," Moore said. "We turned the ball over too many times at the end. We played 38 minutes and didn't turn it over. In the last two minutes we did.

Baylor basketball coach Darrel Johnson said it after the Rice crowd was assessed two technical fouls for throwing hundreds of gummy bears on the floor during the Bears' pre-game introductions. "I told him (the official) that if he checked the rules, we should have gotten a free throw for each gummy bear."

The story reminded about how bad SWC basketball officials could be.

I think that was probably the year that TAMU ended an unbeaten at home streak that spanned men's football, basketball and baseball seasons, IIRC.