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The Butch Jones Way
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Ramen_Tiger Offline
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Post: #1
The Butch Jones Way
Apparantly the dude is over signing each year and cutting the unfit after a year. Some of the transfers are from the 2014 class. Is this really a good strategy?
12-29-2014 03:31 AM
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Briskbas Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball.../21733077Q


Business as usual at big time programs.
12-29-2014 03:44 AM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 03:44 AM)Briskbas Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball.../21733077Q


Business as usual at big time programs.

could you please repost? says article not found
12-29-2014 05:22 AM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
nm found this

http://knoxblogs.com/evanseleven/2013/12...ing-class/

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee — When Butch Jones met with the Knoxville Quarterback Club last week, he dropped a nugget of recruiting information that most wrote off as hyperbole.

“If we can find a way to sign 35, we’ll sign 35,” he said.

Was he exaggerating for effect?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps not.

As Tennessee’s list of verbal commitments continues to grow (it should be up to 34 if lineman Charles Mosley commits on Friday as expected), the Vols are contending with two limits.

One is the NCAA-imposed limit on scholarships. The other is the conference-imposed limit on signees.

There’s no loophole on NCAA scholarship limits. Teams can have only 85 total scholarship players, of whom no more than 25 can be “initial counters” in any given year. (There are some strategies to minimize the impact of the NCAA limits, which I discussed here. More on that in a second).

But is it possible that Tennessee’s staff has stumbled upon a loophole that would effectively allow the Vols to “over-sign” in a way that was common a few years ago but has largely been eliminated because of new rules?

Take a look at the text of the SEC rule limiting signees that went into effect Aug. 1, 2011 (emphasis added):

13.9.1 Letter of Intent – Limitation. Each SEC member institution is limited to signing 25 football prospective student-athletes to a National Letter of Intent, Conference financial aid agreement and/or institutional offer of athletics financial aid from December 1 through May 31st of each year. [Adopted 5/29/09; effective immediately; revised 6/3/11; effective August 1, 2011]

The dates are critical, because the SEC bylaw collides with a new NCAA rules interpretation that impacted this recruiting cycle. Academically eligible student-athletes who plan to enroll early (in January) are now allowed to sign aid agreements with universities as early as Aug. 1.

Tennessee had a flood of players sign aid agreements last month — perhaps a half-dozen players or more. Why is this significant? By the letter of the law, those players wouldn’t count against the SEC’s signing limit. They’re freebies, if you will.

Now, make no mistake: This loophole, if it’s real, doesn’t affect the scholarship limitations. But it would give Tennessee more flexibility than teams that haven’t yet discovered the loophole.

For example, let’s say five players sign aid agreements before Dec. 1, 2013, and enroll at UT in January.

UT can count back at least five scholarships against 2013 because that year’s class was under the 25-man limit. So that’s now 10 that wouldn’t count against the SEC signing limit.

Jones has said he wants to welcome 14 mid-year enrollees in January. If the Vols were able take 10 of those players “off the books” for the purposes of the SEC signing rule, they could sign another 21 players to traditional Letters of Intent in February.

Grand total? 35.

Now the next challenge would be squeezing those 21 February signees into the remaining scholarship slots. But Tennessee would have all summer to worry about that, which is valuable time to work out details of who will qualify, who won’t, who will gray-shirt and who can contribute immediately.

Assuming UT can count back five to 2013, the Vols would have to count nine of the 14 midyear enrollees against the 2014 limit. That would leave 21 players for 16 slots in the 2014 allotment.

What happens to the remaining five? The problem could very well resolve itself during the summer. If it doesn’t, gray-shirting is an option. (That’s when a player agrees to delay his enrollment for one semester; in this case, the player would enroll in Jan. 2015 and count against the 2015 limits).

The more intriguing and non-traditional option is blue-shirting. Here’s how I described it an earlier article: “Officially, a player arrives in the summer as a walk-on. Once football practice begins, he’s awarded a scholarship. The school is allowed to count the scholarship forward — against the 2015 class — but the player can play immediately. There’s a big catch: The student-athlete may not have been recruited, as defined by NCAA bylaws. That means no official visit to campus, no in-home visits from coaches, no signed National Letter of Intent or athletic aid.”

There are some prospects on the Vols’ list who, notably, have not yet taken official visits to campus. That said, official visits are just one element of being recruited. In fact, the definition of a recruited student-athlete on UT’s own compliance website is so restrictive that it’s hard to imagine how anyone could possibly avoid getting that distinction.

Of course, all the strategies listed above could be moot. The Vols could simply shed members of its signing class the old-fashioned way: Nudging lower-rated prospects aside as National Signing Day approaches.

As much as the SEC signing “loophole” seems like a logical strategy given the rules, based on talking to people around the program, I’m not convinced it’s an important part of their plan.

They do have a plan of some sort, however. And Butch Jones has repeatedly assured fans not to worry about it.

Jones and his staff don’t seem to be sweating the numbers game, which is one reason why so many people are curious about just what tricks — if any — they have up their sleeves.

“It will work out,” Jones said at the same booster club event last week. “I promise you.”
12-29-2014 06:27 AM
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ksigtigerdood Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Houston Nutt made a habit of this. The SEC ended up modifying the rule because of it.
12-29-2014 09:25 AM
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HometownTiger Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
UT isn't the only school doing this. Every big time program looks for early enrollees to help their number. It's the unfortuante reality of college athletics for those who don't make the cut.

CJF could use that as a huge recruiting tool if he continues to win. "Come play for a winner & don't worry about being cut for the next wave of 5-star recruits after your freshman year."
12-29-2014 10:41 AM
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Mimi Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
No matter what they do...they are still going to be behind Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Georgia and likely SCarolina, TX AM and Arkansas.

They should strive to remain of par or ahead of mispiiiii and Moo, let alone Mizzou...all three of which they are behind right now.

They will be good enough overall to beat some of those teams on occasion, but systematically, I highly doubt they will move back into the upper tier on anything remotely resembling a consistent basis.
12-29-2014 02:07 PM
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spankadelphia Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
You can almost understand why Butch would do this the first few years if you knew what kind of shape Dooley left their roster. Zero depth for an SEC team. That said, some of the guys who transferred or got "processed" were big time recruits, not necessarily chopped liver, so it may be an internal problem.

They won't sniff the SEC championship game until they fix that horrible offensive line.
12-29-2014 02:38 PM
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Briskbas Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 05:22 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 03:44 AM)Briskbas Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball.../21733077Q


Business as usual at big time programs.

could you please repost? says article not found

Let's see if this works
Quote:That should come as no surprise, given that Bama has consistently (and legally) operated on the edge of NCAA scholarship caps throughout Nick Saban's tenure. Ostensibly, teams are limited to 85 scholarship players on the roster at any given time. In practice, because the NCAA doesn't do a head count until the start of preseason practice in July or August, sometimes long after incoming freshmen and other newcomers have already arrived on campus, coaches can cross the line on national signing day as long as they're able to come in under the cap six months later. Yet even after a concerted crackdown on "oversigning" by the SEC over the past three years, no coach in any league overshot the mark this year with such gusto.

Alabama wasn't very far from the line to begin with. The Crimson Tide only lost a dozen scholarship players from last year's unusually young BCS championship team, including three early departures for the NFL and a former walk-on (long snapper Carson Tinker) who was awarded a scholarship before last season, leaving them with at least 70 scholarship players scheduled to return in 2013 and a maximum of 14 available openings. Still, on signing day, Bama added almost twice that number -- including, yes, a two-star prospect from California, Cole Mazza, who is projected strictly as a long snapper.

...

If all else fails, it comes down to making cuts, preferably in a fashion that doesn't involve actually having to say, "you're cut," which Saban adamantly denies he has ever done. The first to go are usually fifth-year seniors who are unlikely to contribute, a relatively uncontroversial move as it's common at many schools for veteran backups to bow out quietly after four years with a degree in hand . . . Injured players may be asked to accept a medical hardship, which allows them to remain on scholarship without counting against the cap but effectively ends their career, even if the injury is not necessarily career-ending. (Saban has been criticized in the past for using the hardship more than any other coach, and by players who said they felt pressured to accept a hardship. . .) . . . But whatever it takes, there is no way around the fact that somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen players currently slated to wear the Crimson Tide uniform this fall will be culled from the roster over the next six months.

It's just the reality of big time college football that a lot of players get "pushed out" as it were. Saban is particularly notorious for it.
12-29-2014 03:45 PM
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Briskbas Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 02:07 PM)Mimi Wrote:  No matter what they do...they are still going to be behind Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Georgia and likely SCarolina, TX AM and Arkansas.

They should strive to remain of par or ahead of mispiiiii and Moo, let alone Mizzou...all three of which they are behind right now.

They will be good enough overall to beat some of those teams on occasion, but systematically, I highly doubt they will move back into the upper tier on anything remotely resembling a consistent basis.

Saban and Miles will not be at Bama and LSU forever. Florida will get better someday, but there are structural problems with the job that are keeping the best coaches away. The balance of SEC power will not always stay in the West. Most of the rest that are ahead of Tennessee right now are on upswings and Tennessee could very easily get into the mix with upper tier East teams and the upper middle tier west teams in the next two years if Jones can keep recruiting the way he has.
12-29-2014 03:58 PM
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Mimi Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Spoken like a true Utk fan.

Anything is possible.

It is still incredibly unlikely Utk, beyond a singular season or the occasional upset...rejoins the top.

You can keep hoping though...
12-29-2014 04:36 PM
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Briskbas Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
I'm not a UTK fan. I'm just not myopic enough to think that they're permanently down just because I'd like it to be so.
12-29-2014 08:11 PM
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Mimi Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Will concede it is possible they could elevate themselves.

Simply not likely...base on all of the above, typical Utk fan style boosterism will not change that.

Not myopic. Simply have eyes.

I guess it is better to needle a Memphis fan for a realistic opinion that Utk will remain second division, than to needle the school that has been in the, wait for it, second division for a decade...but EVERY year has its fans tell us this is the year.

They will get some wins...may even have a great year. They will also likely remain in the second division for decades..overall.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2014 08:34 PM by Mimi.)
12-29-2014 08:32 PM
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spankadelphia Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
I hate Tennessee with a burning passion... but they are going to be back on top one day. And their fans will be insufferable. I'm willing to bet they'll win another SEC championship before Ole Miss, State, Arky, or A&M does.
12-29-2014 09:55 PM
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Ramen_Tiger Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 09:55 PM)spankadelphia Wrote:  I hate Tennessee with a burning passion... but they are going to be back on top one day. And their fans will be insufferable. I'm willing to bet they'll win another SEC championship before Ole Miss, State, Arky, or A&M does.

Hope you like waiting
12-30-2014 07:38 AM
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TigerTitan Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 09:55 PM)spankadelphia Wrote:  I hate Tennessee with a burning passion... but they are going to be back on top one day. And their fans will be insufferable. I'm willing to bet they'll win another SEC championship before Ole Miss, State, Arky, or A&M does.
Careful!!! You might be accused of being a Utk fan by Mimi, too, just for giving credit where credit is due. Mimi, obviously, has no clue what he's talking about.

He's a better Tiger fan than ANY of us could dream to be!! 01-wingedeagle
01-03-2015 09:25 PM
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tigernole79 Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
No, Mimi is a Florida fan and hates the fact that they are looking up to ut right now.... and will be for the foreseeable future.[/align]
01-03-2015 09:58 PM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
utk just beat iowa....bwhahahahaha and the closet door is cracking open on some of you


come on man, iowa. they havent been worth a **** since before most of you were born.

nobody is worried about the vols or the gators....lmao

the vols have utk and vandy to end the season, every year.... let that sink in

vols have not been feared since the inception of TVA. they hard a nice run when phat phil was paying players like the qb from mobile but come on man.

yall gonna tear down the goal posts or print the recruiting championship t shirts.

lmao

dumb dumbs
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2015 12:26 AM by shere khan.)
01-04-2015 12:13 AM
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blue68 Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(01-04-2015 12:13 AM)shere khan Wrote:  utk just beat iowa....bwhahahahaha and the closet door is cracking open on some of you


come on man, iowa. they havent been worth a **** since before most of you were born.

nobody is worried about the vols or the gators....lmao

the vols have utk and vandy to end the season, every year.... let that sink in

vols have not been feared since the inception of TVA. they hard a nice run when phat phil was paying players like the qb from mobile but come on man.

yall gonna tear down the goal posts or print the recruiting championship t shirts.

lmao

dumb dumbs


I know they will have a top five defense. They have a monster class on D.
01-04-2015 04:14 PM
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spankadelphia Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(01-03-2015 09:58 PM)tigernole79 Wrote:  No, Mimi is a Florida fan and hates the fact that they are looking up to ut right now.... and will be for the foreseeable future.[/align]

Florida could trot out a bunch of middle schoolers in Gator uniforms and walk out of Neyland with a W.

Tennessee can't beat Florida. Not even with Peyton Manning at QB. It's a voodoo curse from the 90's. They've even lost the coin toss to FL 12 times in a row.
01-04-2015 04:26 PM
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