(01-05-2015 06:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 10:38 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:30 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Doesn't government do any studies on profitability before taking on massive projects? This is guaranteed to lose billions.

Libs in government just do what they want to do, regardless of feasibility or cost.

Step back from the cost aspect, because Airlines go bankrupt all the time and it is debatable on whether road 'pay' for themselves. The correct measure for transportation projects is that of utility. Could a HSR system actually work in US in terms of being frequently used? Sure, but it would never be the interconnected system like the one Europe sports. That's bcause the most accessible market for HSR to capture is regional air travel. So high density areas like the West Coast or the NE Corridor would be the ideal locations for such a service. But take a look at this Alignment map and you will notice that the proposed route is not very straight and that stations (24 in total) are sometimes not even 30 miles apart, effectively eliminating the high speed aspect of HSR (Avg speeds will be between 79-90 mph). Combined with the fact that the HSR will have to share the same tracks as conventional rail, California's experiment will be reduced to Acela levels of performance.

Roads do pay for themselves by the tax revenues. The Highway trust fund not only pays for roads but BS projects like light rail, subways, bike trails and bike lanes not of which generate any tax revenue and few actually generate enough operating revenue to cover operating expenses.

Wait. Are you talking about the gas tax? If you are, that tax in no way the amount covers what is needed.

(01-06-2015 01:49 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(01-06-2015 01:10 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  High-tech infrastructure is great. The reason it doesn't work in this country is because unions and politicians want to inject themselves into design and cost decisions that should only involve engineers and infrastructure planners.

The reason the technology is over budget has nothing to do with the technology itself.

i'm interested. can you share some of your favorite links? i go back and forth on this. i f*cking really would like high speed light rail, but is it practical? i have a hard time grasping what the price tag on a project means to me. there's so much sh!t that goes on that suppose to affect me financially and the bottom line doesn't seem to change.

i have thought about this briefly. the east coast would use a bullet train more because that's where the population is. midwest has big connectors. south has big connectors. outside of texas it's okc and denver en route slc and the pac nw.

boston, nyc, philly, dc, pittsburgh, columbus, indianapolis, chiacgo, charlotte, atlanta, memphis/st louis could all be major hubs in the east/midwest to get you elsewhere. those routes are strategic even if i didn't give routes. it's basically the interstate, which would be imo, where it should be built.

california makes sense to have a high speed train, i think they would use it a lot (sf to la, la to sd). cut the driving time in half. those are pretty big money cities. trains can make sense

Yep. I would add a line from Chi to Mil and Minn too.

Why have a train when flying is almost always cheaper & faster?

(01-06-2015 06:42 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 10:38 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:30 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Doesn't government do any studies on profitability before taking on massive projects? This is guaranteed to lose billions.

Libs in government just do what they want to do, regardless of feasibility or cost.

Step back from the cost aspect, because Airlines go bankrupt all the time and it is debatable on whether road 'pay' for themselves. The correct measure for transportation projects is that of utility. Could a HSR system actually work in US in terms of being frequently used? Sure, but it would never be the interconnected system like the one Europe sports. That's bcause the most accessible market for HSR to capture is regional air travel. So high density areas like the West Coast or the NE Corridor would be the ideal locations for such a service. But take a look at this Alignment map and you will notice that the proposed route is not very straight and that stations (24 in total) are sometimes not even 30 miles apart, effectively eliminating the high speed aspect of HSR (Avg speeds will be between 79-90 mph). Combined with the fact that the HSR will have to share the same tracks as conventional rail, California's experiment will be reduced to Acela levels of performance.

Roads do pay for themselves by the tax revenues. The Highway trust fund not only pays for roads but BS projects like light rail, subways, bike trails and bike lanes not of which generate any tax revenue and few actually generate enough operating revenue to cover operating expenses.

Wait. Are you talking about the gas tax? If you are, that tax in no way the amount covers what is needed.

Gasoline Taxes fed and state do cover it that's the only way highways get built. And they rob the fund where these taxes are collected to pay for buses, build light rail and subway systems bike trails bike lanes etc. There are also excise taxes on tires that go to that fund, and most states have use taxes on cars that go to the state fund. If the revenue from these taxes didn't cover building and maintaining the highway system, the gubment wouldn't be raiding it to pay for non-highway projects.

(01-06-2015 06:39 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:36 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:00 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

No wonder he thinks it would be awesome, nothing says "exciting" like going 25 miles @ 200 mph... And in 14 years, you go 800 miles with the simple on boarding and off boarding a measly 24 times...

Not to put words in Fit's mouth, but I think he meant it would awesome, in general, not just between those two cities. Of course only between those two cities is crazy. However, it would be cool to have one cross country or between major cities, but given vast distances I just don't see how that would work.

Exactly. I like trains. So shoot me.

You are aware that blacks and Chinamen worked in brutal conditions with little pay in order to build our railroad system, right?

Chinamen?

Yeah, you know - Irishmen, Scotsmen, Chinamen.

(01-06-2015 08:15 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Why have a train when flying is almost always cheaper & faster?

If designed and priced correctly, Trains could easily compete with regional air routes.

(01-06-2015 08:15 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Why have a train when flying is almost always cheaper & faster?

Agreed Uconn...

That's why I'm worried about this "boondoggle" that Chicago/St. Louis are wanting to get working as a high-speed rail.

Now that being said, I've told myself that if I do make a run up to Indianapolis or Chicago, I'm taking the Amtrak train to get there.

But anywhere else, I can just go get over to Lambert International Airport... and I'm done with it for a cheaper / faster trip.

I really wish we had low cost air carriers here like they do in Europe. For regional flights (which accomplish the same thing as HSR), I don't really care about comfort. I'll sit on a bicycle seat for an hour and a half if I can fly from Charlotte to NYC for $100 round trip.

I saw regional flights in Europe that were like 60 Euros. They charge you a ton for checked bags, but for a weekend trip or a short business trip I can everything I need in a small personal bag.

(01-06-2015 06:39 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:36 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:00 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

No wonder he thinks it would be awesome, nothing says "exciting" like going 25 miles @ 200 mph... And in 14 years, you go 800 miles with the simple on boarding and off boarding a measly 24 times...

Not to put words in Fit's mouth, but I think he meant it would awesome, in general, not just between those two cities. Of course only between those two cities is crazy. However, it would be cool to have one cross country or between major cities, but given vast distances I just don't see how that would work.

Exactly. I like trains. So shoot me.

You are aware that blacks and Chinamen worked in brutal conditions with little pay in order to build our railroad system, right?

Chinamen?

It's sad isn't it? I feel sorry for people like that who don't even know that they are making racist comments.

If it's not going to go 200 mph, it's not a high-speed train, and it's sure as heck not a bullet train.
And if it's not going to run on a separate dedicated track, the whole thing is a waste of time and money.
The European and Japanese high-speed trains typically run on tracks that are a different gauge than freight tracks, so there is no possibility of one getting in the way of the other.
This is to a bullet train as hitchhiking is to space travel.
Spend enough to do it right, or don't do it.

If it's going to run on the same tracks, why is it so expensive?

(01-10-2015 11:48 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If it's going to run on the same tracks, why is it so expensive?

Unions.

(01-10-2015 11:16 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I feel sorry for people like that who don't even know that they are making racist comments.

I feel sorry for people who choose to take offense when they specifically know that no offense was intended. What an angry, sad, miserable life that must be.

(01-10-2015 11:16 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2015 06:39 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 05:36 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Not to put words in Fit's mouth, but I think he meant it would awesome, in general, not just between those two cities. Of course only between those two cities is crazy. However, it would be cool to have one cross country or between major cities, but given vast distances I just don't see how that would work.

Exactly. I like trains. So shoot me.

You are aware that blacks and Chinamen worked in brutal conditions with little pay in order to build our railroad system, right?

Chinamen?

It's sad isn't it? I feel sorry for people like that who don't even know that they are making racist comments.

Racist?

rac·ist /ˈrāsəst/

noun

noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1. a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
"he was exposed as a racist"

•(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"

adjective

noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist

1. having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"


Where did I imply that being a Chinaman is inferior to any other race?

(01-10-2015 11:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If it's not going to go 200 mph, it's not a high-speed train, and it's sure as heck not a bullet train.
And if it's not going to run on a separate dedicated track, the whole thing is a waste of time and money.
The European and Japanese high-speed trains typically run on tracks that are a different gauge than freight tracks, so there is no possibility of one getting in the way of the other.
This is to a bullet train as hitchhiking is to space travel.
Spend enough to do it right, or don't do it.

Is freight going to be allowed on the line as well?

If so, that explains it. High speed rail that isn't high speed that is really a gift to the freight industry...

(01-10-2015 01:05 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 11:16 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-06-2015 06:39 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:16 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 06:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Exactly. I like trains. So shoot me.

You are aware that blacks and Chinamen worked in brutal conditions with little pay in order to build our railroad system, right?

Chinamen?

It's sad isn't it? I feel sorry for people like that who don't even know that they are making racist comments.

Racist?

rac·ist /ˈrāsəst/

noun

noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1. a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
"he was exposed as a racist"

•(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"

adjective

noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist

1. having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"


Where did I imply that being a Chinaman is inferior to any other race?

It's a derogatory word man. I'll give you a pass though because I know you are from a different generation.

(01-10-2015 02:00 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 11:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If it's not going to go 200 mph, it's not a high-speed train, and it's sure as heck not a bullet train.
And if it's not going to run on a separate dedicated track, the whole thing is a waste of time and money.
The European and Japanese high-speed trains typically run on tracks that are a different gauge than freight tracks, so there is no possibility of one getting in the way of the other.
This is to a bullet train as hitchhiking is to space travel.
Spend enough to do it right, or don't do it.

Is freight going to be allowed on the line as well?

If so, that explains it. High speed rail that isn't high speed that is really a gift to the freight industry...

I don't know if it's specifically freight but California's Caltrans commuter rail lines as well as Amtrak's Coaster trains will use the same tracks.

A familiar refrain has emerged as California continues building its HSR system.

You’ll Have to Build It to Find out the Cost

Isn't California bankrupt? Or at the very least, drowning in debt that even Scrooge McDuck couldn't pay off?

(05-12-2015 07:09 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Isn't California bankrupt? Or at the very least, drowning in debt that even Scrooge McDuck couldn't pay off?

No we've had a surplus in the annual budget for at least the past two years.