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So, the playoff did come through!
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #61
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 05:16 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:01 PM)omniorange Wrote:  All of this 6 or 8 or even 16 talk is fun. But until there is at least another 5 years of data under the 4 team model, it's all just that - talk.

But that is what message boards are about, so carry on.

As for myself, I think we had an 8 team playoff this year. Oregon vs Arizona, Ohio State vs Wisconsin, FSU vs GT, Alabama vs Missouri with TCU and Baylor waiting in the wings for one or two of the favorites to get knocked out so they could get a seat in the playoffs.

Cheers,
Neil

From my perspective, waiting in the wings while 8 teams battled for the championship kinda stinks, especially with arguably one of the best two or three teams out there, at least according to the computers. It's a debatable point but that is the point ( that it's debatable). Consider this, if we beat Baylor Ohio State would have been the team left out (even as a 12-1 undisputed Big 10 champ winning 59-0); they could be the champs this year. If there's an a poster child for 8, it might be them and not us...

And that's the point. With 4, some worthy team or two is going to be left out each year. The playoff needs all teams with a good argument to be #1. 8 is going to capture all of the 1 loss teams with a viable argument.

But the Big 12 only has itself to blame for what happened this year since they knew a 4 team playoff was where things were heading for the immediate future back in 2010 and 2011.

In the current model, Ohio State's beating Alabama with a 3rd string QB legitimizes their pick over TCU more than TCU whipping up on Ole Miss and despite being taken to the woodshed by Oregon, FSU as the only undefeated team and the defending national champion defeating a GT that beat Clemson and Georgia down the stretch ensured their place as well.

However, TCU actually beating Baylor in a 13th game might have increased their chances of getting in over Ohio State.

Cheers,
Neil
01-04-2015 06:10 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #62
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 05:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 04:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:58 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:56 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  So asking these kids to do more of what they love to do is a bad thing? Most of them aren't going to the NFL. For most of them, this is it. Adding more to the postseason is probably exactly what those kids want.
Asking them to do so to make the school's more money of which (as of now) they get none of, while risking injury, I doubt it "exactly what those kids want." They want a fair chance to win, but not necessarily by playing more and more games.

The kids are getting more and that trend will continue. I would disagree with you wholeheartedly though if you are actually going to make the argument that these kids don't want to play more games. Have you ever played?

He's which makes it easier to answer. Late season games are much harder on the body, in addition to extra games, but because your body loses some of the routine from playing every week, and hits hurt a lot more. Granted players tend to be a little more healthy in bowl games than late season games, but most are worn down by years' end. I also worked for a pro team and spoke directly with many a player. Rookies were usually barely able to get out of bed by week 10 or 11 Because their bodies were so worn down and not used to the extra games (they play all preseason and week 8 for them is like week 11). It's not an accident that the NFL player's Union has vehemently opposed extra games even if it would mean more money for players. And it's not accident that NFL injury rates skyrocket every week past week 13, and players miss more games despite the games being more important and teams have less options to replace them in the lineup. Just look at the playoffs now: every team that lost Can attribute it to the loss of a key player, many of the west and tear variety (as opposed to the Carson Palmer ACL which had nothing to do with games played).

So yes I can DEFINITELY speak on this from experience. Can you?

Yes I can and I absolutely loved it. I hated it when the season came to an end. I look at that block of text and the player in me goes "blah blah blah". They know the risks, they know the rewards and one of those rewards is the enjoyment they get from the game. It is something that life will never again replicate. For many of them when their college football career ends, that will be it for them in football. So you go try to pass off that garbage on a player and see if they get angry about playing more postseason games in college football.

I bet they laugh at you if you try to sell that garbage to them.

Reading comprehension not your friend? I actually gave you specific examples from players telling me exactly that within the scope of my job. And no; hey we're not laughing: they were the ones saying it.
01-04-2015 06:17 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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Post: #63
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 05:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  But that debate never ends. Twice in the last decade the very last team invited to the NCAA basketball tournament made it to the final four. Does that mean teams number 69 and 70 had a gripe for being left out, even though in theory they could have made it to the end?

The last team in the NFL playoffs have won the super bowl a couple of times this decade. Does that mean the last team eliminated had a gripe? Even tigt now, the last AFC team in will be lambic next week and the last NFC team is winning 14-0 at this moment: should the Chargers and Eagles also be in the playoffs?

It never ends but becomes a lot tougher case to make. With 2 teams, it's easy to make the case for the #3 team. With 4 a little tougher to argue for the #5, but many years that team is going to be a one loss team with similar resumes to the top 4. With 8 it gets real hard to make a case for the #9 team, a team historically with at least 2 losses and likely other warts. Ole Miss had 3 losses this year. for example.

8 teams captures all champs, the couple at large teams with the best argument and the best G5 champ (which I think is important to include).
01-04-2015 06:18 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #64
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 06:17 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 04:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:58 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:56 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Asking them to do so to make the school's more money of which (as of now) they get none of, while risking injury, I doubt it "exactly what those kids want." They want a fair chance to win, but not necessarily by playing more and more games.

The kids are getting more and that trend will continue. I would disagree with you wholeheartedly though if you are actually going to make the argument that these kids don't want to play more games. Have you ever played?

He's which makes it easier to answer. Late season games are much harder on the body, in addition to extra games, but because your body loses some of the routine from playing every week, and hits hurt a lot more. Granted players tend to be a little more healthy in bowl games than late season games, but most are worn down by years' end. I also worked for a pro team and spoke directly with many a player. Rookies were usually barely able to get out of bed by week 10 or 11 Because their bodies were so worn down and not used to the extra games (they play all preseason and week 8 for them is like week 11). It's not an accident that the NFL player's Union has vehemently opposed extra games even if it would mean more money for players. And it's not accident that NFL injury rates skyrocket every week past week 13, and players miss more games despite the games being more important and teams have less options to replace them in the lineup. Just look at the playoffs now: every team that lost Can attribute it to the loss of a key player, many of the west and tear variety (as opposed to the Carson Palmer ACL which had nothing to do with games played).

So yes I can DEFINITELY speak on this from experience. Can you?

Yes I can and I absolutely loved it. I hated it when the season came to an end. I look at that block of text and the player in me goes "blah blah blah". They know the risks, they know the rewards and one of those rewards is the enjoyment they get from the game. It is something that life will never again replicate. For many of them when their college football career ends, that will be it for them in football. So you go try to pass off that garbage on a player and see if they get angry about playing more postseason games in college football.

I bet they laugh at you if you try to sell that garbage to them.

Reading comprehension not your friend? I actually gave you specific examples from players telling me exactly that within the scope of my job. And no; hey we're not laughing: they were the ones saying it.

I read quite well. You talked about talking to Rookies in the NFL and how much they are hurting by week 10 or 11. Why is that? Because the experience is that much more intense in the NFL week to week.

So I am sorry but you aren't winning the argument with that experience. Nice try.
01-04-2015 06:19 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #65
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 06:10 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:16 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:01 PM)omniorange Wrote:  All of this 6 or 8 or even 16 talk is fun. But until there is at least another 5 years of data under the 4 team model, it's all just that - talk.

But that is what message boards are about, so carry on.

As for myself, I think we had an 8 team playoff this year. Oregon vs Arizona, Ohio State vs Wisconsin, FSU vs GT, Alabama vs Missouri with TCU and Baylor waiting in the wings for one or two of the favorites to get knocked out so they could get a seat in the playoffs.

Cheers,
Neil

From my perspective, waiting in the wings while 8 teams battled for the championship kinda stinks, especially with arguably one of the best two or three teams out there, at least according to the computers. It's a debatable point but that is the point ( that it's debatable). Consider this, if we beat Baylor Ohio State would have been the team left out (even as a 12-1 undisputed Big 10 champ winning 59-0); they could be the champs this year. If there's an a poster child for 8, it might be them and not us...

And that's the point. With 4, some worthy team or two is going to be left out each year. The playoff needs all teams with a good argument to be #1. 8 is going to capture all of the 1 loss teams with a viable argument.

But the Big 12 only has itself to blame for what happened this year since they knew a 4 team playoff was where things were heading for the immediate future back in 2010 and 2011.

In the current model, Ohio State's beating Alabama with a 3rd string QB legitimizes their pick over TCU more than TCU whipping up on Ole Miss and despite being taken to the woodshed by Oregon, FSU as the only undefeated team and the defending national champion defeating a GT that beat Clemson and Georgia down the stretch ensured their place as well.

However, TCU actually beating Baylor in a 13th game might have increased their chances of getting in over Ohio State.

Cheers,
Neil

I don't think a CCG would have helped TCU. Using past alignments they liekly should have been in a division with baylor. Now baylor on the other hand, who would have been playing in a CCG for sure, they certainly would have been helped by one. TCU either would be left of of the CCG, or would have been in a weakened division and maybe not in a position to be there at the end.
01-04-2015 06:19 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #66
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 06:19 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 06:17 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 04:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 02:58 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  The kids are getting more and that trend will continue. I would disagree with you wholeheartedly though if you are actually going to make the argument that these kids don't want to play more games. Have you ever played?

He's which makes it easier to answer. Late season games are much harder on the body, in addition to extra games, but because your body loses some of the routine from playing every week, and hits hurt a lot more. Granted players tend to be a little more healthy in bowl games than late season games, but most are worn down by years' end. I also worked for a pro team and spoke directly with many a player. Rookies were usually barely able to get out of bed by week 10 or 11 Because their bodies were so worn down and not used to the extra games (they play all preseason and week 8 for them is like week 11). It's not an accident that the NFL player's Union has vehemently opposed extra games even if it would mean more money for players. And it's not accident that NFL injury rates skyrocket every week past week 13, and players miss more games despite the games being more important and teams have less options to replace them in the lineup. Just look at the playoffs now: every team that lost Can attribute it to the loss of a key player, many of the west and tear variety (as opposed to the Carson Palmer ACL which had nothing to do with games played).

So yes I can DEFINITELY speak on this from experience. Can you?

Yes I can and I absolutely loved it. I hated it when the season came to an end. I look at that block of text and the player in me goes "blah blah blah". They know the risks, they know the rewards and one of those rewards is the enjoyment they get from the game. It is something that life will never again replicate. For many of them when their college football career ends, that will be it for them in football. So you go try to pass off that garbage on a player and see if they get angry about playing more postseason games in college football.

I bet they laugh at you if you try to sell that garbage to them.

Reading comprehension not your friend? I actually gave you specific examples from players telling me exactly that within the scope of my job. And no; hey we're not laughing: they were the ones saying it.

I read quite well. You talked about talking to Rookies in the NFL and how much they are hurting by week 10 or 11. Why is that? Because the experience is that much more intense in the NFL week to week.

So I am sorry but you aren't winning the argument with that experience. Nice try.

Look just because YOU feel that way doesn't mean its true. Despite what you seem to think, you don't know every fukking thing. There is a reason why players, this who do it every year, are always against extra games. They are always talking about just making it to the end of the season; not saying "damn I want to play more" aside from elimination (players want to win their last game). I don't give a flying phuck what you think; I know of from experience and there is a plethrora of evidence to back it up. Maybe you just never left the bench, and you enter to play another game so you could finally get in. Don't know: don't care. But the majority of players, ask any of them, are not bummed that there is no more football, aside from losing the last game, And/or missing out on the extra game (not being bowl eligible, losing the first round of the playoffs). I cant make it a blanket statement that is 100%, especially like uiu are trying to, but very few players at the end of season talking about still wanting to play more games. How do I know? Because it's a freakin question we ask to try to motivate players. "Hey didn't you wish you could still play after you played in the sugar bowl? Now's your chance?" Answer "no: I was ready to take some time off and heal, and didn't want to even look at tape for two months." Actual quotes; Aftual players. Real players who were in it and best up for 13-1 games.

again aside from a loss ending theor season early. Now if you mean a team finished 5-7 and they wanted to make a bowl: that's different. But if you are trying to tell me that after the Ohio state/Oregon game there are players sitrimg around wishing they had a game with Michigan state the next week, you will be searching long and hard to find people ready to sign that petition. Especially those who are not seniors.
01-04-2015 06:30 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #67
RE: So, the playoff did come through!
(01-04-2015 06:19 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 06:10 PM)omniorange Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:16 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 05:01 PM)omniorange Wrote:  All of this 6 or 8 or even 16 talk is fun. But until there is at least another 5 years of data under the 4 team model, it's all just that - talk.

But that is what message boards are about, so carry on.

As for myself, I think we had an 8 team playoff this year. Oregon vs Arizona, Ohio State vs Wisconsin, FSU vs GT, Alabama vs Missouri with TCU and Baylor waiting in the wings for one or two of the favorites to get knocked out so they could get a seat in the playoffs.

Cheers,
Neil

From my perspective, waiting in the wings while 8 teams battled for the championship kinda stinks, especially with arguably one of the best two or three teams out there, at least according to the computers. It's a debatable point but that is the point ( that it's debatable). Consider this, if we beat Baylor Ohio State would have been the team left out (even as a 12-1 undisputed Big 10 champ winning 59-0); they could be the champs this year. If there's an a poster child for 8, it might be them and not us...

And that's the point. With 4, some worthy team or two is going to be left out each year. The playoff needs all teams with a good argument to be #1. 8 is going to capture all of the 1 loss teams with a viable argument.

But the Big 12 only has itself to blame for what happened this year since they knew a 4 team playoff was where things were heading for the immediate future back in 2010 and 2011.

In the current model, Ohio State's beating Alabama with a 3rd string QB legitimizes their pick over TCU more than TCU whipping up on Ole Miss and despite being taken to the woodshed by Oregon, FSU as the only undefeated team and the defending national champion defeating a GT that beat Clemson and Georgia down the stretch ensured their place as well.

However, TCU actually beating Baylor in a 13th game might have increased their chances of getting in over Ohio State.

Cheers,
Neil

I don't think a CCG would have helped TCU. Using past alignments they liekly should have been in a division with baylor. Now baylor on the other hand, who would have been playing in a CCG for sure, they certainly would have been helped by one. TCU either would be left of of the CCG, or would have been in a weakened division and maybe not in a position to be there at the end.

If let's say they expanded with Louisville and BYU, I think the B12 would have gone with a zipper approach moreso than the old North/South divisions.

In a zipper approach, Baylor and TCU would have been in opposite divisions but would have likely been cross-over rivals.

But it's all speculation.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2015 07:25 PM by omniorange.)
01-04-2015 07:24 PM
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