(01-02-2015 02:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 02:50 PM)Lucy Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 09:38 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Obviously, the answer is Virginia Tech.

When healthy, the Hokies beat the Sugar Bowl champion Ohio State Buckeyes in the Big Horseshoe.
Assuming those players are healthy next Fall, VT will be unstoppable. 15-0 national champs, baby!



[/dreamin']

You just keep ignoring that loss to WFU to end the season, don't you?

VT didn't play Wake Forest this season...
I have no recollection of that event...
It never happened...

I was in the stands. Saw the whole fugly game with my own eyes.

(01-02-2015 02:47 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 01:50 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  You have to have a good QB to have a chance in Hell. You have to have defensive personal to have a realistic chance.

Barring season ending injuries in current personal expected to return:

Atlantic

1. Clemson - 6-2 (10-2) (CU beats FSU, loses to GT and ?) (Top games - FSU, Notre Dame, GT, Miami, SC) Hardest schedule in ACC
2. FSU - 6-2 (10-2) (Loss to Clemson and ?) (Top games - Clemson, GT, and Florida)
3. Louisville/NC State 5-3 (8-4) (Top games - Auburn, FSU, Clemson, and Kentucky)
4. NC State/Louisville 4-4 (8-4)
5. BC 4-4 (8-4)
6. Syracuse 3-5 (6-6)
7. WF 1-7 (3-9)

Atlantic

1. GT 7-1 (10-2) (Losses to ? and UGa) (Top games - Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, VT, Duke, Miami) (Toughest schedule in Atlantic)
2. Duke/VT 5-3 (9-3) (VT top games - Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Duke, Miami)
3. VT/Duke 5-3 (8-4) (Duke top games - GT, VT, Miami)
4. Miami 4-4 (7-5) (Top games, Nebraska, Florida State, GT, VT, Duke, Miami)
5. UNC/Pitt/Va 3-5 (6-6)
6. Pitt/UNC/VA 3-5 (6-6)
7. Va/Pitt/UNC -3-5 (5-7)


Of those that CAN contend, Duke and FSU have the easiest paths. GT and Clemson have killer slates. Miami, Louisville, VT, and perhaps NC State might break through, but I don't think so.

NC State does not have enough depth.
VT does not have enough quality QB play.
Miami seems in disarray.
Louisville has the best chance to break though.

The only reason I have "downgraded" BC is because of huge losses to graduation. Everyone else will likely struggle with UNC having perhaps the best hope to not struggle.

Why did you leave out Louisville when listing top games? Last I checked Bobby Petrino is still on the sidelines.

Good as Louisville is/was/will be, they are not at Clemson's, FSU's, or GT's level. Perhaps I have an NC State bias towards them - GT and Clemson beat the ever loving **** out us using big guys on offense and defense. FSU was not as dominating as those two, but they had Winston. BC beat us with size as well, but most of them are Seniors and Graduate Students. GT brings a lot back. I assume Clemson will have Watson. We played Louisville even all game without a dozen of our kids who were suspended for shooting bb guns. Also, I wasn't impressed with how Louisville handled Georgia in the Belk Bowl.

Now I could be entirely wrong about next year.

(01-02-2015 03:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 02:47 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 01:50 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  You have to have a good QB to have a chance in Hell. You have to have defensive personal to have a realistic chance.

Barring season ending injuries in current personal expected to return:

Atlantic

1. Clemson - 6-2 (10-2) (CU beats FSU, loses to GT and ?) (Top games - FSU, Notre Dame, GT, Miami, SC) Hardest schedule in ACC
2. FSU - 6-2 (10-2) (Loss to Clemson and ?) (Top games - Clemson, GT, and Florida)
3. Louisville/NC State 5-3 (8-4) (Top games - Auburn, FSU, Clemson, and Kentucky)
4. NC State/Louisville 4-4 (8-4)
5. BC 4-4 (8-4)
6. Syracuse 3-5 (6-6)
7. WF 1-7 (3-9)

Atlantic

1. GT 7-1 (10-2) (Losses to ? and UGa) (Top games - Georgia, Florida State, Clemson, VT, Duke, Miami) (Toughest schedule in Atlantic)
2. Duke/VT 5-3 (9-3) (VT top games - Ohio State, Georgia Tech, Duke, Miami)
3. VT/Duke 5-3 (8-4) (Duke top games - GT, VT, Miami)
4. Miami 4-4 (7-5) (Top games, Nebraska, Florida State, GT, VT, Duke, Miami)
5. UNC/Pitt/Va 3-5 (6-6)
6. Pitt/UNC/VA 3-5 (6-6)
7. Va/Pitt/UNC -3-5 (5-7)


Of those that CAN contend, Duke and FSU have the easiest paths. GT and Clemson have killer slates. Miami, Louisville, VT, and perhaps NC State might break through, but I don't think so.

NC State does not have enough depth.
VT does not have enough quality QB play.
Miami seems in disarray.
Louisville has the best chance to break though.

The only reason I have "downgraded" BC is because of huge losses to graduation. Everyone else will likely struggle with UNC having perhaps the best hope to not struggle.

Why did you leave out Louisville when listing top games? Last I checked Bobby Petrino is still on the sidelines.

Good as Louisville is/was/will be, they are not at Clemson's, FSU's, or GT's level. Perhaps I have an NC State bias towards them - GT and Clemson beat the ever loving **** out us using big guys on offense and defense. FSU was not as dominating as those two, but they had Winston. BC beat us with size as well, but most of them are Seniors and Graduate Students. GT brings a lot back. I assume Clemson will have Watson. We played Louisville even all game without a dozen of our kids who were suspended for shooting bb guns. Also, I wasn't impressed with how Louisville handled Georgia in the Belk Bowl.

Now I could be entirely wrong about next year.

Wait wait wait..before this season GT had 4 mediocre seasons in a row. They found the perfect QB for their system and now they're rolling again. Louisville dealt with injuries all season long..should have beaten UVA...almost beat Clemson. They should be in the conversation.

As for the Belk Bowl...shouldn't you use the same logic on FSU since they didn't look good against Oregon.

I don't know how the graduation of starters and incoming impact players may change the strength of the teams, but as I review this last ACC season, it is obvious that Fla St, GT, Clem, and UL were legitimately a step above the rest of the ACC (although UL played only 6 bowl teams compared to the other 3 teams that played 8 bowl teams each). It is hard not seeing that being the same next year.
But with the next 8 teams (ignoring Wake and Syra who clearly were at the bottom) it is a bit deceiving to go by simply total wins this last year. When you analyze who they played in the regular season, I would rank the 8 middle teams as follows:
Being a UVa fan I hate to admit it but the best of the middle 8 teams was VTech who played 9 bowl teams and won 4 (plus won their bowl game to improve their resume). They also beat a highly ranked team in Ohio State. Miami actually won more games against bowl teams than anyone of the 8. They played 10 bowl teams and won 5 but the problem is that none were against a ranked team and they needed 2 non P5 wins to help them get into a bowl.
The next two best teams were UNC and UVa who both played 9 bowl teams and both won 3 of those games. Both won against one of the ACC’s best (UNC over GTech and UVa over UofL). But UVa will have an easier schedule in the ACC next year by switching FSU for Wake. Virtually on the same level as them was BC who played 8 bowl teams and won 3 (including a win against USC).
So in my opinion (without factoring graduation losses), VT, Miami, UNC and UVa all have about the same shot at challenging GT in the Coastal division. And BC has the best shot in the Atlantic to slip past Clemson, FSU and UofL.
This year Pitt and Duke each won only two games against bowl teams (and played 7 and 5 respectively), so they have less of a chance to sneak into the Coastal race next year unless having a favorable acc schedule rotation (which Duke does again). Likewise NCST who only won 1 game against a bowl team in the regular season, is unlikely to sneak into the Atlantic race especially with 3 of the top league teams in that division.

Currently, I'll say Clemson and Georgia Tech will play in Charlotte, in their second meeting of the season, for the ACC championship. If one of those teams beats the other twice, then that team will likely be undefeated/one loss and be in playoff contention.

If Braxton Miller transfers to Florida State then I think you have to make them the favorite again.

I see Louisville and Duke having 9 win regular seasons again and I see Miami as a dark horse candidate.

(01-02-2015 01:12 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:23 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 09:29 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Clemson has a good shot but they lose a lot on defense.

If GT continues playing like they did to end the year, they're going to be tough for anybody. The only issue they have is their schedule is extremely tough next year.

FSU will always be in the mix simply because it's FSU. If Winston does decide to return you may see the chip on the shoulder scenario.

Narduzzi at Pitt should be interesting. UNC hiring Chizik is equally interesting.

If Braxton Miller can have a POY type season for the Noles next year, they'll be hard to beat.

If he doesn't go to Oregon or Duke....

Wouldn't he have to sit out a year by transferring to another FBS program? And since he only has 1 year of eligibility left, that would preclude him from transferring.

He doesn't have to sit out because he already has his degree from OSU.

(01-02-2015 07:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 01:12 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:23 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 09:29 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Clemson has a good shot but they lose a lot on defense.

If GT continues playing like they did to end the year, they're going to be tough for anybody. The only issue they have is their schedule is extremely tough next year.

FSU will always be in the mix simply because it's FSU. If Winston does decide to return you may see the chip on the shoulder scenario.

Narduzzi at Pitt should be interesting. UNC hiring Chizik is equally interesting.

If Braxton Miller can have a POY type season for the Noles next year, they'll be hard to beat.

If he doesn't go to Oregon or Duke....

Wouldn't he have to sit out a year by transferring to another FBS program? And since he only has 1 year of eligibility left, that would preclude him from transferring.

He doesn't have to sit out because he already has his degree from OSU.

Ok, thanks for responding. What about Winston? I haven't heard any thing from him that sounds like he's leaving early.

(01-02-2015 03:39 PM)cavman Wrote:  I don't know how the graduation of starters and incoming impact players may change the strength of the teams, but as I review this last ACC season, it is obvious that Fla St, GT, Clem, and UL were legitimately a step above the rest of the ACC (although UL played only 6 bowl teams compared to the other 3 teams that played 8 bowl teams each). It is hard not seeing that being the same next year.
But with the next 8 teams (ignoring Wake and Syra who clearly were at the bottom) it is a bit deceiving to go by simply total wins this last year. When you analyze who they played in the regular season, I would rank the 8 middle teams as follows:
Being a UVa fan I hate to admit it but the best of the middle 8 teams was VTech who played 9 bowl teams and won 4 (plus won their bowl game to improve their resume). They also beat a highly ranked team in Ohio State. Miami actually won more games against bowl teams than anyone of the 8. They played 10 bowl teams and won 5 but the problem is that none were against a ranked team and they needed 2 non P5 wins to help them get into a bowl.
The next two best teams were UNC and UVa who both played 9 bowl teams and both won 3 of those games. Both won against one of the ACC’s best (UNC over GTech and UVa over UofL). But UVa will have an easier schedule in the ACC next year by switching FSU for Wake. Virtually on the same level as them was BC who played 8 bowl teams and won 3 (including a win against USC).
So in my opinion (without factoring graduation losses), VT, Miami, UNC and UVa all have about the same shot at challenging GT in the Coastal division. And BC has the best shot in the Atlantic to slip past Clemson, FSU and UofL.
This year Pitt and Duke each won only two games against bowl teams (and played 7 and 5 respectively), so they have less of a chance to sneak into the Coastal race next year unless having a favorable acc schedule rotation (which Duke does again). Likewise NCST who only won 1 game against a bowl team in the regular season, is unlikely to sneak into the Atlantic race especially with 3 of the top league teams in that division.

I will add that I think both Clem and UofL end up 7-1 in their division but UofL goes to Charlotte having beat Clem head to head. UofL and GT play for the championship. I think VT ends up second in their division behind GT. UVa, UNC and Miami all end up in the middle of their division and perhaps Duke as well, but Pitt will likely be at the bottom.

(01-02-2015 08:46 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 07:04 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 01:12 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:23 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(01-02-2015 12:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Braxton Miller can have a POY type season for the Noles next year, they'll be hard to beat.

If he doesn't go to Oregon or Duke....

Wouldn't he have to sit out a year by transferring to another FBS program? And since he only has 1 year of eligibility left, that would preclude him from transferring.

He doesn't have to sit out because he already has his degree from OSU.

Ok, thanks for responding. What about Winston? I haven't heard any thing from him that sounds like he's leaving early.

Nobody expects Winston to return. He apparently intends to stick around for baseball season but after that it's unlikely he's back. I think that would mean he'd have to go through the draft process without hiring an agent though, which seems like a poor decision, but hey, he'll be a top pick regardless, you'd think, and can wait to negotiate his contract until after baseball season when he can hire an agent then.

I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he returned, though, even though I don't expect it at all. Leinart, Luck, Bradford and others all returned despite being assured high draft picks.

Let's try to narrow down the answer choices, shall we?

Question #1: Which 4 schools are the only schools to win the ACC in the last 8 years(and make up 9 of the 10 ACC Champions in the CG era)?
Answer #1: FSU, VT, CU, GT.

Question #2: Which of these 4 schools doesn't have an aging coach and team on the decline?
Answer #2: FSU, CU, GT.

So there, one of those 3 will almost definitely win the conference next year.

FSU:
Will lose 4 starting OL, top WR, top TE to eligibility, and likely lose 1-2 DB, 1-2 DL, and starting QB to the NFL. But FSU won the ACC this year desptie losing 18 players to the NFL Draft alone in the previous two years, and also won the ACC the year prior to Winston becoming starter.

Clemson:
I've read they lose most of their defensive front 7. Not sure about offensive losses, but if Watson stays healthy they should be able to do well on offense, assuming things go smoothly with the new OC.

GT:
I don't have much roster knowledge here. They return their QB...

No one is the clear favorite, unless Miller transfers to FSU; then it's FSU.

If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  and UNC with its new defense will battle for second.

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

UofL has too many unknowns on offense...replacing 3 OLinemen doesn't help...once again the Defense will have to carry UofL early...another 8-4/9-3 Campaign...now 2016 then UofL will seriously challenge for the ACC Title.

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

Never, ever, place your hopes or your money on UNC winning anything in football. Never, ever. Even when they have had all the talent in the world that money could buy, and they have had such in the late 40's, once in the early 70's, again in the early 80's, and in Mack Brown's last three or so years in the mid-90's.

They have lost each and every pivotal game once they get near the top. They did in the 40's with bowl games even though they had Choo Choo Justice, they did it in the early 70's when they had ND down 13 points in the 4th quarter and blew the game. They did it in the 80's with a blowout loss at Oklahoma, and then conservative losses to Clemson and the next year at Pitt. Mack Brown could never beat FSU.

Never drink the UNC football kool aid - it will always bite you.

It's akin to the NC State affliction. No matter how good or how bad the football team is, almost every year we will beat a Florida State, Notre Dame, Texas, Clemson, or have the ball with a chance to win as we did two years in a row with Ohio State, etc., etc. In that same season we will inexplicably lose to Wake Forest or some other equally bad team - you can bet your life on that.

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

When did UNC get a new defense? Looks like they'll have the same lousy players back next year. It will take a few years of solid recruiting to get them where they need to be on D.

(01-03-2015 04:06 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

When did UNC get a new defense? Looks like they'll have the same lousy players back next year. It will take a few years of solid recruiting to get them where they need to be on D.

IMHO UNC-Ch would need a huge cultural change in order to develop the individual player mentality needed to compete at a high level. They need the chip on the shoulder that ECU carries or the campus wide devotion to football that you find at football schools.

UNC has evolved over the past 30 to become almost a "girls" school. UNC undergrad is about 60% female. When you toss in the graduate and professional schools that figure gets close to 63%. That's a huge shift and it's not easily fixed or balanced because NC State has all the traditionally male disciplines of Engineering, Agriculture, Textiles, Architecture, etc.

In the FBS, only VT and UVa, Clemson and SC, and NC State and UNC-Ch are so split. Most Land Grants have the full range of professional schools and liberal arts, and most of the old Liberal Arts major institutions have a full range of engineering and STEM offerings - think of Michigan State and Michigan, or Purdue and Indiana.

I think the feminization of UNC and the tradition as a basketball school work against football at UNC-Ch, and I observe that as an alum of both UNC-Ch and NC State.

(01-03-2015 04:36 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 04:06 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 12:01 AM)7thHeaven Wrote:  If Tyler Ferguson comes through at Louisville next year like I think, Louisville will be fighting Clemson for the division. I don't think Jameis returns. Boston College and NC State really started to play some football their toward the end. Now the other division, I think GT will run away with it and UNC with its new defense will battle for second. Third will be a log jam of VT, Miami and Pitt.

When did UNC get a new defense? Looks like they'll have the same lousy players back next year. It will take a few years of solid recruiting to get them where they need to be on D.

IMHO UNC-Ch would need a huge cultural change in order to develop the individual player mentality needed to compete at a high level. They need the chip on the shoulder that ECU carries or the campus wide devotion to football that you find at football schools.

UNC has evolved over the past 30 to become almost a "girls" school. UNC undergrad is about 60% female. When you toss in the graduate and professional schools that figure gets close to 63%. That's a huge shift and it's not easily fixed or balanced because NC State has all the traditionally male disciplines of Engineering, Agriculture, Textiles, Architecture, etc.

In the FBS, only VT and UVa, Clemson and SC, and NC State and UNC-Ch are so split. Most Land Grants have the full range of professional schools and liberal arts, and most of the old Liberal Arts major institutions have a full range of engineering and STEM offerings - think of Michigan State and Michigan, or Purdue and Indiana.

I think the feminization of UNC and the tradition as a basketball school work against football at UNC-Ch, and I observe that as an alum of both UNC-Ch and NC State.

Also as an alum, I respectfully disagree. UNC football is held back because we don't want to spend the money. Getting a top notch coach is going to cost. That's just the way it is.