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The Butch Jones Way
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Ramen_Tiger Offline
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The Butch Jones Way
I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?
 
12-29-2014 03:36 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Butch is not an easy guy to play for. He is extremely intense and is a well known micro-manager.
 
12-29-2014 05:29 AM
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
http://knoxblogs.com/evanseleven/2013/12...ing-class/


KNOXVILLE, Tennessee — When Butch Jones met with the Knoxville Quarterback Club last week, he dropped a nugget of recruiting information that most wrote off as hyperbole.

“If we can find a way to sign 35, we’ll sign 35,” he said.

Was he exaggerating for effect?

Perhaps.

Or perhaps not.

As Tennessee’s list of verbal commitments continues to grow (it should be up to 34 if lineman Charles Mosley commits on Friday as expected), the Vols are contending with two limits.

One is the NCAA-imposed limit on scholarships. The other is the conference-imposed limit on signees.

There’s no loophole on NCAA scholarship limits. Teams can have only 85 total scholarship players, of whom no more than 25 can be “initial counters” in any given year. (There are some strategies to minimize the impact of the NCAA limits, which I discussed here. More on that in a second).

But is it possible that Tennessee’s staff has stumbled upon a loophole that would effectively allow the Vols to “over-sign” in a way that was common a few years ago but has largely been eliminated because of new rules?

Take a look at the text of the SEC rule limiting signees that went into effect Aug. 1, 2011 (emphasis added):

13.9.1 Letter of Intent – Limitation. Each SEC member institution is limited to signing 25 football prospective student-athletes to a National Letter of Intent, Conference financial aid agreement and/or institutional offer of athletics financial aid from December 1 through May 31st of each year. [Adopted 5/29/09; effective immediately; revised 6/3/11; effective August 1, 2011]

(Here’s a .pdf link if you want to peruse the SEC rules yourself.)

The dates are critical, because the SEC bylaw collides with a new NCAA rules interpretation that impacted this recruiting cycle. Academically eligible student-athletes who plan to enroll early (in January) are now allowed to sign aid agreements with universities as early as Aug. 1.

Tennessee had a flood of players sign aid agreements last month — perhaps a half-dozen players or more. Why is this significant? By the letter of the law, those players wouldn’t count against the SEC’s signing limit. They’re freebies, if you will.

Now, make no mistake: This loophole, if it’s real, doesn’t affect the scholarship limitations. But it would give Tennessee more flexibility than teams that haven’t yet discovered the loophole.

For example, let’s say five players sign aid agreements before Dec. 1, 2013, and enroll at UT in January.

UT can count back at least five scholarships against 2013 because that year’s class was under the 25-man limit. So that’s now 10 that wouldn’t count against the SEC signing limit.

Jones has said he wants to welcome 14 mid-year enrollees in January. If the Vols were able take 10 of those players “off the books” for the purposes of the SEC signing rule, they could sign another 21 players to traditional Letters of Intent in February.

Grand total? 35.

Now the next challenge would be squeezing those 21 February signees into the remaining scholarship slots. But Tennessee would have all summer to worry about that, which is valuable time to work out details of who will qualify, who won’t, who will gray-shirt and who can contribute immediately.

Assuming UT can count back five to 2013, the Vols would have to count nine of the 14 midyear enrollees against the 2014 limit. That would leave 21 players for 16 slots in the 2014 allotment.

What happens to the remaining five? The problem could very well resolve itself during the summer. If it doesn’t, gray-shirting is an option. (That’s when a player agrees to delay his enrollment for one semester; in this case, the player would enroll in Jan. 2015 and count against the 2015 limits).

The more intriguing and non-traditional option is blue-shirting. Here’s how I described it an earlier article: “Officially, a player arrives in the summer as a walk-on. Once football practice begins, he’s awarded a scholarship. The school is allowed to count the scholarship forward — against the 2015 class — but the player can play immediately. There’s a big catch: The student-athlete may not have been recruited, as defined by NCAA bylaws. That means no official visit to campus, no in-home visits from coaches, no signed National Letter of Intent or athletic aid.”

There are some prospects on the Vols’ list who, notably, have not yet taken official visits to campus. That said, official visits are just one element of being recruited. In fact, the definition of a recruited student-athlete on UT’s own compliance website is so restrictive that it’s hard to imagine how anyone could possibly avoid getting that distinction.

Of course, all the strategies listed above could be moot. The Vols could simply shed members of its signing class the old-fashioned way: Nudging lower-rated prospects aside as National Signing Day approaches.

As much as the SEC signing “loophole” seems like a logical strategy given the rules, based on talking to people around the program, I’m not convinced it’s an important part of their plan.

They do have a plan of some sort, however. And Butch Jones has repeatedly assured fans not to worry about it.

Jones and his staff don’t seem to be sweating the numbers game, which is one reason why so many people are curious about just what tricks — if any — they have up their sleeves.

“It will work out,” Jones said at the same booster club event last week. “I promise you.”
 
12-29-2014 06:28 AM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?

They haven't lost any 5* players. They've lost 3 4* players from last year's class, the only good one being DE DeWayne Hendrix, and it's rumored that he may end up staying.

His program is not for everyone. Just like Clifton said, he is a very intense coach and very demanding. Maybe not quite as much as Kelly was but he's certainly up there.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2014 07:10 AM by Marcus.)
12-29-2014 07:08 AM
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eastside cat Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.
 
12-29-2014 07:39 AM
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Don't be a turd. Ramen is good peoples.
 
12-29-2014 08:31 AM
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Seriously, wtf warranted this reply?
 
12-29-2014 08:45 AM
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rosewater Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 08:31 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Don't be a turd. Ramen is good peoples.

I don't know if I would go that far; however I like the free flow of discussion. When Butch first arrived, there were certainly players that had serious setbacks. DJ Woods comes to mind, and the business with the tackle(his name escapes me) that could not crack the starting lineup, but got a few starts with the Rams.

In addition, I believe Butch tries to get the edge on his opponent through recruiting, because he is not a good game day coach IMHO. I think this limitation will keep him from reaching the highest level. His teams will be disciplined, but predictable.
 
12-29-2014 08:48 AM
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JackieTreehorn Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 08:48 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 08:31 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Don't be a turd. Ramen is good peoples.

I don't know if I would go that far; however I like the free flow of discussion. When Butch first arrived, there were certainly players that had serious setbacks. DJ Woods comes to mind, and the business with the tackle(his name escapes me) that could not crack the starting lineup, but got a few starts with the Rams.

In addition, I believe Butch tries to get the edge on his opponent through recruiting, because he is not a good game day coach IMHO. I think this limitation will keep him from reaching the highest level. His teams will be disciplined, but predictable.

You talking about Sean Hooey?
 
12-29-2014 08:50 AM
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rosewater Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 08:50 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 08:48 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 08:31 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Don't be a turd. Ramen is good peoples.

I don't know if I would go that far; however I like the free flow of discussion. When Butch first arrived, there were certainly players that had serious setbacks. DJ Woods comes to mind, and the business with the tackle(his name escapes me) that could not crack the starting lineup, but got a few starts with the Rams.

In addition, I believe Butch tries to get the edge on his opponent through recruiting, because he is not a good game day coach IMHO. I think this limitation will keep him from reaching the highest level. His teams will be disciplined, but predictable.

You talking about Sean Hooey?

Yes
 
12-29-2014 08:51 AM
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eastside cat Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Okay. Need coffee. I take it back.
(12-29-2014 08:31 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 07:39 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Please get off our board. I don't care about UT and Butch Jones.

Don't be a turd. Ramen is good peoples.
 
12-29-2014 09:08 AM
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eastside cat Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?
 
12-29-2014 09:13 AM
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Ramen_Tiger Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 09:13 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?

It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.
 
12-29-2014 11:33 AM
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The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 11:33 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 09:13 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?

It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.

Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.
 
12-29-2014 11:47 AM
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 11:47 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:33 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 09:13 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?

It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.

Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.

This. That is the entire SEC in a nutshell when it comes to recruiting. Will have no negative impact on recruiting at all because the entire conference does it. Plus other SEC schools recruit the Memphis area far more than Tennessee does.
 
12-29-2014 12:04 PM
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The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 12:04 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:47 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:33 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 09:13 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.
(12-29-2014 03:36 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  I was reading the Tennessee board for a little bit and apparantly the are having a lot of transfers out of the program. These aren't just 2* or 3* players but 4* and 5* players. Most only after just being there a year. Some UTk fans say that is the reason he oversigns each signing period. He is cutting those he deems not fit to be on the team. Did he do this at Cincy?

It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.

Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.

This. That is the entire SEC in a nutshell when it comes to recruiting. Will have no negative impact on recruiting at all because the entire conference does it. Plus other SEC schools recruit the Memphis area far more than Tennessee does.

Yep. TN owns Middle and East TN. A lot of good talent coming out of Nashville and Vandy is rarely a threat. Memphis is a buffet of teams with no clear lock down winner.
 
12-29-2014 12:36 PM
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eastside cat Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
Maybe when you join with us in the Big 12, you can get some recruits to stay home. We are hoping to keep some Cincinnati players home.
(12-29-2014 12:36 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 12:04 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:47 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:33 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 09:13 AM)eastside cat Wrote:  Sorry for my reply. I just hate Butch Jones and took it out on you. He was such a scum bag the way he lied and played this we are family crap.

It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.

Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.

This. That is the entire SEC in a nutshell when it comes to recruiting. Will have no negative impact on recruiting at all because the entire conference does it. Plus other SEC schools recruit the Memphis area far more than Tennessee does.

Yep. TN owns Middle and East TN. A lot of good talent coming out of Nashville and Vandy is rarely a threat. Memphis is a buffet of teams with no clear lock down winner.
 
12-29-2014 12:43 PM
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Dannyboy Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
I wish he'd over signed some DTs when he was here.
 
12-29-2014 01:03 PM
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Ramen_Tiger Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 12:43 PM)eastside cat Wrote:  Maybe when you join with us in the Big 12, you can get some recruits to stay home. We are hoping to keep some Cincinnati players home.
(12-29-2014 12:36 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 12:04 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:47 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:33 AM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  It's good. I was just intrigued by how he goes about recruiting and if it could be used in recruiting against him.

Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.

This. That is the entire SEC in a nutshell when it comes to recruiting. Will have no negative impact on recruiting at all because the entire conference does it. Plus other SEC schools recruit the Memphis area far more than Tennessee does.

Yep. TN owns Middle and East TN. A lot of good talent coming out of Nashville and Vandy is rarely a threat. Memphis is a buffet of teams with no clear lock down winner.

Local kids are gaining interest slowly. It is a process to win them over. 3 more years of decent results we will maybe be able to get the high 3 stars in our area with a rare 4*. Just have to wait and be patient.
 
12-29-2014 01:35 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: The Butch Jones Way
(12-29-2014 01:35 PM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 12:43 PM)eastside cat Wrote:  Maybe when you join with us in the Big 12, you can get some recruits to stay home. We are hoping to keep some Cincinnati players home.
(12-29-2014 12:36 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 12:04 PM)Marcus Wrote:  
(12-29-2014 11:47 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  Hugh Freeze does the same thing. Offer everyone and worry about the numbers later.

This. That is the entire SEC in a nutshell when it comes to recruiting. Will have no negative impact on recruiting at all because the entire conference does it. Plus other SEC schools recruit the Memphis area far more than Tennessee does.

Yep. TN owns Middle and East TN. A lot of good talent coming out of Nashville and Vandy is rarely a threat. Memphis is a buffet of teams with no clear lock down winner.

Local kids are gaining interest slowly. It is a process to win them over. 3 more years of decent results we will maybe be able to get the high 3 stars in our area with a rare 4*. Just have to wait and be patient.

Which is why Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas and others are schools you need to be far more concerned about than TN. TN doesn't recruit Memphis nearly as hard as those schools do. Wasn't it just a few years ago that Miss State signed 37 players in one class?
 
12-29-2014 02:10 PM
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